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maltmom
Guest
My heart is breaking for her family.
Morally I have to say that I’m going to have to think about this one. She was fulling dilated and leaking amniotic fluid. She was obviously miscarrying and there wasn’t anything that could be done to stop it. The pregnancy was terminating. She was danger of dying and ultimately did. If the baby had been forming in one of her tubes the danger to her life would have been just as great. There wouldn’t have been a problem with removing that portion of her tube to save her life even though it would result in the death of her baby. Is there a difference in this case with giving her inducing meds to have reduce her chance of death? I think of myself as 100% pro-life. I’m shocked that I would consider that they should have helped nature progress faster to save her life.
Off to pray.
Morally I have to say that I’m going to have to think about this one. She was fulling dilated and leaking amniotic fluid. She was obviously miscarrying and there wasn’t anything that could be done to stop it. The pregnancy was terminating. She was danger of dying and ultimately did. If the baby had been forming in one of her tubes the danger to her life would have been just as great. There wouldn’t have been a problem with removing that portion of her tube to save her life even though it would result in the death of her baby. Is there a difference in this case with giving her inducing meds to have reduce her chance of death? I think of myself as 100% pro-life. I’m shocked that I would consider that they should have helped nature progress faster to save her life.
Off to pray.
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Ghosty
Guest
I don’t know the facts, but if it’s possible that they could have delivered the baby through c-section then it was irresponsible to let them both die IMO.
Deliver the child and try to help it as much as humanly possible, but don’t wait for it to die in the womb. Obviously they were just condemning them both at that point. My prayers go out to her and her family.
Peace and God bless!
Deliver the child and try to help it as much as humanly possible, but don’t wait for it to die in the womb. Obviously they were just condemning them both at that point. My prayers go out to her and her family.
Peace and God bless!
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Holly3278
Guest
I feel very badly about this tragic situation. I feel deep sympathy for both the woman who tragically died and for her family who are still living. I will not pass judgment on anyone involved. I do pray that this woman rests in peace and I pray that the Holy Spirit would comfort her family and all close to her.
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Angelsflight
Guest
That hospital is responsible for that womans death.
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waanju
Guest
Why didn’t they induce!!! Then they could have saved her and possibly her child (micro-preemies can live). That would have been the best course of medical treatment for both patients, not abortion at all. Sure the child would have PROBABLY still died, but s/he was definitely going to die if they did nothing.
THe worst part is that pro-aborts will use this to help their case, when this wasn’t a case that called for abortion, but one that called for unfortunate induction of pre-term labor!
THe worst part is that pro-aborts will use this to help their case, when this wasn’t a case that called for abortion, but one that called for unfortunate induction of pre-term labor!
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JerryZ
Guest
She died of septicemia that is infection. But she was fully dilated at 17 weeks which would have been a miscarriage, they where monitoring the hearh beat of the fetus’s heart.
Which is the normal procedure if you cannot perform an abortion.
Read this article found on the same newspaper:
It talks about septicemia and how rare it is.
irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/1114/1224326573976.html?via=rel
Also this article seems relevant:
irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/1114/1224326573999.html?via=rel
Someone also mentioned the fallopian tubes, that is called an ectopic pregnancy and that has been discussed on this forum, do a search on “ectopic pregnancy”.
I doubt the hospital would have not taken steps if that was the case because those pregnancies invariably lead to the mother’s death.
If they were monitoring the fetus’s heartbeat surely they would have know if that was the case.
In other words barring the case they find gross negligence on the actions of the Hospital we cannot judge a priory why did this happen.
One important aspect we do not know for example is if she was being followed by an OB doctor to make sure her pregnancy was progressing properly and without issues.
Unfortunately we might never find out will we?
Let’s pray for both that they find rest and can see the glory of God.
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stephe1987
Guest
I don’t think it’s about being denied termination as much as it was neglecting of her needs. They did not do anything to help her until after the baby’s heart stopped beating, and by then it was too late. Do they not have prenatal care in that country? What happened?
I looked up septicaemia and it says that there was bacteria in her bloodstream. Why couldn’t they work with that issue? What if a pregnant woman whose body wasn’t miscarrying had that problem? Would they let her die, too?
Terminations are allowed in the case of ectopic pregnancies because BOTH mother and child would die. The pro-life movement is about treating both lives equally, not about saving nobody when two lives are about to end. And there is no way to move the ectopic pregnancy into the uterus; otherwise that would obviously be preferred to “abortion.”
I looked up septicaemia and it says that there was bacteria in her bloodstream. Why couldn’t they work with that issue? What if a pregnant woman whose body wasn’t miscarrying had that problem? Would they let her die, too?
Terminations are allowed in the case of ectopic pregnancies because BOTH mother and child would die. The pro-life movement is about treating both lives equally, not about saving nobody when two lives are about to end. And there is no way to move the ectopic pregnancy into the uterus; otherwise that would obviously be preferred to “abortion.”
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St_Francis
Guest
No, this is not worded at all correctly. The procedure is *not *a “termination,” nor is it permitted because both mother and child will die.
In the case of an ectopic pregnancy, the baby is attached to the tube rather than to the womb. The tube then poses a danger to the mother and needs to be removed. Unfortunately, and not as an intention, a side-effect is that the baby will also be removed and then be unable to survive.
The principle is that of double effect: the action is not in and of itself immoral, but a side-effect, which is not the end of the action nor intended, is an outcome one would not want.
In the case of pregnancy, if a woman is found to have cancer while she is pregnant, she can be treated with radiation or chemotherapy, as these are the normal, moral treatments. It may be that the treatment could kill the child, but this would not be the intention of the treatment, nor would the death of the child be the “end,” or goal-implicit-in-the-action, of the treatment.
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JerryZ
Guest
Precisely why I am miffed by this, normally septicemia sets in after a prolonged period of time, in fact is quite rare nowdays. That’s why I posited we should look at the possibility this mother did not have proper prenatal care, but I will not make any judgement a priory on this until all the facts are examined.I don’t think it’s about being denied termination as much as it was neglecting of her needs. They did not do anything to help her until after the baby’s heart stopped beating, and by then it was too late. Do they not have prenatal care in that country? What happened?
I looked up septicaemia and it says that there was bacteria in her bloodstream. Why couldn’t they work with that issue? What if a pregnant woman whose body wasn’t miscarrying had that problem? Would they let her die, too?
Terminations are allowed in the case of ectopic pregnancies because BOTH mother and child would die. The pro-life movement is about treating both lives equally, not about saving nobody when two lives are about to end. And there is no way to move the ectopic pregnancy into the uterus; otherwise that would obviously be preferred to “abortion.”
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CaptFun
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pepipop
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A tragic story and may she RIP. Unfortunately, the government shall be making a decision imminently, on a ruling by the supreme court that abortions may be carried out in certain cases, so as not to risk the mother. This tragic case, will no doubt sway the yes vote to get the law passed, in Ireland. I am not a doctor, however from google search, I believe septicaemia can be associated with a partial or missed miscarriage. These situations do pose a quandary.
irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2012/1114/1224326575203.html
*Savita Halappanavar (31), a dentist, presented with back pain at the hospital on October 21st, was found to be miscarrying, and died of septicaemia a week later.
Her husband, Praveen Halappanavar (34), an engineer at Boston Scientific in Galway, says she asked several times over a three-day period that the pregnancy be terminated. He says that, having been told she was miscarrying, and after one day in severe pain, Ms Halappanavar asked for a medical termination.
This was refused, he says, because the foetal heartbeat was still present and they were told, “this is a Catholic country”.
She spent a further 2½ days “in agony” until the foetal heartbeat stopped.*
irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2012/1114/1224326575203.html
*Savita Halappanavar (31), a dentist, presented with back pain at the hospital on October 21st, was found to be miscarrying, and died of septicaemia a week later.
Her husband, Praveen Halappanavar (34), an engineer at Boston Scientific in Galway, says she asked several times over a three-day period that the pregnancy be terminated. He says that, having been told she was miscarrying, and after one day in severe pain, Ms Halappanavar asked for a medical termination.
This was refused, he says, because the foetal heartbeat was still present and they were told, “this is a Catholic country”.
She spent a further 2½ days “in agony” until the foetal heartbeat stopped.*
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Mistress_Luna
Guest
Outrageous.
These antihumane and antiwoman laws must be challenged by the European court of human rights. And all guilty to be sentenced to capital punishment.
Its high time catholic totalitarian dictatorship over my beloved Ireland was destroyed once and for all .Disgusting.
These antihumane and antiwoman laws must be challenged by the European court of human rights. And all guilty to be sentenced to capital punishment.
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GaryTaylor
Guest
What a mess.
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pepipop
Guest
My apologies, I started a similar thread. Unfortunately, it is such a traqic case and the Irish government may make a decision (it may go to referendum, I’m not sure) possibly today, that would allow abortion to be legal in Ireland, if the mother is at risk. No-one is aware of the actual details of ‘mother at risk’ and it is in relation to a law passed by the supreme court 20 yrs past, that has not been acted on, in Ireland.
I agree with another poster she could have been induced.
I agree with another poster she could have been induced.
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pepipop
Guest
My apologies I had not seen another thread already concerning this story.
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SeanF1989
Guest
Keep your barbaric, heathen ways out of my ancestors country, Ireland is Catholic. You can keep your human sacrifice supporting, antimale paganism.
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CaptFun
Guest
Two others too counting posts #3 and #12 if you include a C section.
Though probably this is “not a tragedy” to some pro-aborts but “manna from heaven” sure to swing the lukewarm their way and GET abortion legalized while emotions run high.
My dark side wonders if some in the hospital may have let things go (especially since they
DID let things go) with a political purpose in mind. Though except for the one nurse’s cryptic statement which on paper looks bad - they seemed to follow the law and once the child was dead from the miscarriage they moved quickly to save the Mom (unsuccessfully).
It is SO common sense for even us three non-doctors to see that removing the baby to whatever care could be given - rather than doing an illegal termination - should have been done.
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KostyaJMJ
Guest
C-sections don’t come without risks. They obviously believed that she was safer miscarrying on her own and then having a D&C.
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pepipop
Guest
I think your dark side, Captfun, may be too dark
, I really cannot see medical professionals letting a patient die for a political agenda (i hope). However, the devil has reared his ugly head once again - the timing is ‘so perfect’ it’s quite unbelievable. The decision to legalise abortion in Ireland, so there will be no risk to the mother, may come out today and/or by next week definitely. The case has made the mainstream UK news, as well, i.e. 24/7 on BBC.Already several councils in Dublin are calling for an abortion law.
irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/1113/1224326525485.html
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