Woman 'denied a termination' dies in hospital

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Mistress_Luna said:
Outrageous.

Its high time catholic totalitarian dictatorship over my beloved Ireland was destroyed once and for all .Disgusting.
These antihumane and antiwoman laws must be challenged by the European court of human rights. And all guilty to be sentenced to capital punishment.
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You are free to give birth with the druids and the paladins in the pagan country of your choosing.

I’m not sure why a sovereign country abiding by its laws is surprising to you, or why that would make you want to resort to capital punishment. Sad story, and the hospital may have been able to do more, but tearing down your make believe anst-fantasy about the Church isn;t going to change anything.

The Church will be around long after you and I are dead.
 
Mistress_Luna said:
Outrageous.

Its high time catholic totalitarian dictatorship over my beloved Ireland was destroyed once and for all .Disgusting.
These antihumane and antiwoman laws must be challenged by the European court of human rights. And all guilty to be sentenced to capital punishment.
Click to expand...
In the name of Jesus, I cast you away. Get thee hence, Satan.
 
triumphguy said:
irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2012/1114/1224326575203.html
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Very Sad; but if there was a fetal heartbeat how would “septicaemia” be suspected.
septicaemia also know as Systemic inflammatory response syndrome or blood poisoning can have a wide number of causes. Understandably if she was miscarriaging it would lead to an obvious suspicion.

The loss of both the unborn infant and mother is very sad. I wonder how often the same senario happens in other similar cases.🤷
 
This has to be investigated. Those on the pro abortion side are now using this case to attack the Catholic Church and abortion law in Ireland. This is a terrible case and my heart goes out to the family but Ireland has one of the lowest maternal mortality rates in the world
 
This has to be investigated. Those on the pro abortion side are now using this case to attack the Catholic Church and abortion law in Ireland. Ireland has 1 of the lowest maternal mortality rates in the world, something have gone badly wrong in the case of his woman and her baby, God Bless both
 
_Abyssinia said:
This has to be investigated. Those on the pro abortion side are now using this case to attack the Catholic Church and abortion law in Ireland. Ireland has 1 of the lowest maternal mortality rates in the world, something have gone badly wrong in the case of his woman and her baby, God Bless both
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You’re quite right, this needs to be investigated thoroughly. Needless to say the press are slamming the Irish law on abortion, and by association the Catholic Church over this tragic death,.

dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2232676/Savita-Halappanavar-Woman-died-blood-poisoning-Irish-medics-refused-perform-abortion-Catholic-country.html

*The woman’s death has seen pressure heaped on Irish Prime Minister Enda Kenny to legislate for abortion in cases where a mother’s life is in danger, and a demonstration is due to take place in front of the Dail parliament in Ireland this evening.

Left-wing TDs Clare Daly and Joan Collins described the woman’s death as an outrage.
*
*They criticised the Government for failing to adopt their X Case Bill earlier this year, which would have introduced new laws to allow an abortion in specific life-threatening circumstances.
*
 
The mother died of septicaemia, and the story seems to want to make us think she was simultaneously suffering from a delayed miscarriage and a raging infection.

But, did you notice that there is NOT ONE mention that the septicaemia was detected while the baby was still alive? Surely if septicaemia were suspected to be developing they would have done something differently, such as immediately put the mother on high dose antibiotics.

It looks like the hospital was treating this case as one with a healthy mother and a baby that might have a chance of survival, and until that chance was irreversably lost they were going to avoid killing it.
 
Mistress_Luna said:
Outrageous.

Its high time catholic totalitarian dictatorship over my beloved Ireland was destroyed once and for all .Disgusting.
These antihumane and antiwoman laws must be challenged by the European court of human rights. And all guilty to be sentenced to capital punishment.
Click to expand...
Get your anti-Catholicism out of here. It is hardly helpful.
 
Nan_S said:
The mother died of septicaemia, and the story seems to want to make us think she was simultaneously suffering from a delayed miscarriage and a raging infection.

But, did you notice that there is NOT ONE mention that the septicaemia was detected while the baby was still alive? Surely if septicaemia were suspected to be developing they would have done something differently, such as immediately put the mother on high dose antibiotics.

It looks like the hospital was treating this case as one with a healthy mother and a baby that might have a chance of survival, and until that chance was irreversably lost they were going to avoid killing it.
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Septicemia can apparently be caused by prolonged labor, and can be caused by viruses as well as bacteria.
 
CaptFun said:
CaptFun responds in RED

VERY good logical, practical, insightful opinions. :blessyou:
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You understand that abortion means to kill the baby, and that this is condemned by the Church and illegal in Ireland?
 
Mistress_Luna said:
Outrageous.

Its high time catholic totalitarian dictatorship over my beloved Ireland was destroyed once and for all .Disgusting.
These antihumane and antiwoman laws must be challenged by the European court of human rights. And all guilty to be sentenced to capital punishment.
Click to expand...
I agree with you that this woman’s wishes to terminate her pregnancy should have been granted. But sentencing all involved to capital punishment is quite extreme, and you would probably do better not to appear to conflate government policy with Catholicism as a religion.
 
Mistress_Luna said:
Outrageous.

Its high time catholic totalitarian dictatorship over my beloved Ireland was destroyed once and for all .Disgusting.
These antihumane and antiwoman laws must be challenged by the European court of human rights. And all guilty to be sentenced to capital punishment.
Click to expand...
Keep your rabid Christophobia out of here.
 
pepipop said:
A tragic story and may she RIP. Unfortunately, the government shall be making a decision imminently, on a ruling by the supreme court that abortions may be carried out in certain cases, so as not to risk the mother. This tragic case, will no doubt sway the yes vote to get the law passed, in Ireland. I am not a doctor, however from google search, I believe septicaemia can be associated with a partial or missed miscarriage. These situations do pose a quandary.

irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2012/1114/1224326575203.html

*Savita Halappanavar (31), a dentist, presented with back pain at the hospital on October 21st, was found to be miscarrying, and died of septicaemia a week later.

Her husband, Praveen Halappanavar (34), an engineer at Boston Scientific in Galway, says she asked several times over a three-day period that the pregnancy be terminated. He says that, having been told she was miscarrying, and after one day in severe pain, Ms Halappanavar asked for a medical termination.

This was refused, he says, because the foetal heartbeat was still present and they were told, “this is a Catholic country”.

She spent a further 2½ days “in agony” until the foetal heartbeat stopped.*
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This story is heartbreaking. These types of situations do cause a quandary. She had no intention of ending a healthy pregnancy, she realized the baby was not going to be saved. What are the options for situations like this?
 
lonelypetunia said:
This story is heartbreaking. These types of situations do cause a quandary. She had no intention of ending a healthy pregnancy, she realized the baby was not going to be saved. What are the options for situations like this?
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It depends: to my knowledge, there is no official Catholic stance on treatment of every possible life-threatening pregnancy complication but it is left to the woman and her doctors to apply the principles of our faith.

Difficult one and of course we don’t have all the details. Interesting to see what would be the response of people who claim that there are no conditions in which delivery of a pre-viable fetus (medically termed, abortion) is required to save the life of the mother. Complications like this happen every day, they just don’t make the news because the pregnancy usually is ended by medical or surgical means.
 
CaptFun said:
Two others too counting posts #3 and #12 if you include a C section.

Though probably this is “not a tragedy” to some pro-aborts but “manna from heaven” sure to swing the lukewarm their way and GET abortion legalized while emotions run high.

My dark side wonders if some in the hospital may have let things go (especially since they
DID let things go) with a political purpose in mind. Though except for the one nurse’s cryptic statement which on paper looks bad - they seemed to follow the law and once the child was dead from the miscarriage they moved quickly to save the Mom (unsuccessfully).

It is SO common sense for even us three non-doctors to see that removing the baby to whatever care could be given - rather than doing an illegal termination - should have been done.
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There has never in the history of the world been a fetus that survived after delivery at 17 weeks. Low 20 something weeks are the earliest on records. The woman did ask for an induction, but the doctors refused it because they knew the fetus would not survive. Therefor, inducing the labor would have been an abortion, as it would have undoubtedly resulted in the fetus’ death. The “double effect” principle would not apply here because the only action would have been killing the fetus. It would not be like a cancerous uterus or an ectopic pregnancy, where the affected part of the body is removed and the fetus dies in the process of removing that body part. They were not planning to remove her entire uterus. The sole purpose would have been aborting the fetus.

Catholic bishops in Ireland have defended the hospitals actions and said that it was in line with Catholic beliefs, that it did not matter that the fetus was in the process of dying, the correct action was to let the mother die rather than taking any action to hasten the fetus’ inevitable demise. Attempts to blame the hospital on this thread seem completely unfounded: the hospitals states their actions were forced by Catholic political doctrine. The Catholic Church agrees with them, they say yes this woman should have been left to die. Catholicism is what killed this woman, do not pretend otherwise. The only thing left for you to do is argue why it makes sense for a woman - who can be saved to be forced to die with her fetus.

The hospital told Halappanavar, who is Hindu, that she could not be induced because of Ireland’s Catholic beliefs. She responded that she was not a Catholic. This was not taken into consideration.

This case does a good job of showing the problem with allowing abortions “only in the case where the mother’s life is in danger” - which Ireland does allow. When you restrict abortion to these circumstances, it puts a doctor in a very dangerous situation. If the woman is genuinely dying due to her pregnancy, and they perform an abortion, and she lives, how does the doctor know that prosecutors won’t say that the woman’s life wasn’t REALLY in danger? It’s a hard case to prove after the fact, if she survives. It makes sense that a doctor would be very reluctant to perform an abortion even if the woman’s life is in severe danger, because even if the doctor was correct in their assessment, who says the authorities will agree with them, rather than charging them with a serious crime?

It really is sad that the Catholic Church thinks so little of a woman’s life, that it is not worth saving if it means slightly hastening the death of a dying fetus. The Catholic Church has been losing influence and power in Ireland at a massive rate in the last couple decades due to the enormous abuses it has committed, from child abuse to the Magdeline laundries (slavery by another name). Atheism is growing at an enormous pace at Ireland, and it will only continue to do so. The Church isn’t going anywhere, it will certainly continue to exist in Ireland, but it is already losing power in Irish political life and will continue to do so. It has simply lost its right to be a moral authority at this point.

The Catholic Church will continue to grow in places like Central and South America, because there the Church has done far more good than harm. They provide the social safety net to people in terms of hospitals, schools, orphanages, etc. They also are the most vocal group for native and worker’s rights. The good works of the Church are far more prominent than their moral failings. However, in Ireland, this is simply not the case, and the failings of the Church far outweigh the benefits it has provided to the Irish people. The Catholic Church will continue to grow and prosper in some places, but I think in Ireland it is in the midst of a slow slide to irrelevance.
 
Mistress_Luna said:
Outrageous.

Its high time catholic totalitarian dictatorship over my beloved Ireland was destroyed once and for all .Disgusting.
These antihumane and antiwoman laws must be challenged by the European court of human rights. And all guilty to be sentenced to capital punishment.
Click to expand...
this is a Sad and difficult case but this post above is just silly ^^^
 
I know unbelievers who are here on CA to do some reading will say that Catholics have no compassion on women, and to deny their rights is an abuse. I would like to address that line of thought. When we see the woman in the article, the beautiful face she has, that she was educated, married, trying to have a family and certainly did have family, we can weep with her loved ones in her loss, and rightly so. People all over the world can share in the sorrow of her death because we have a photo of her, we know she had the opportunities to live life, grow up, go to school, get married, have a career. None of these things would we be looking at now if her mother aborted her.

I pray that this tragic event does not become the key that opens the door to abortion on demand so that Ireland can follow in the footsteps of adding abortions to the millions done around the world already. Millions of babies did not have the opportunities that this young woman had. To say that Catholics have no compassion on women is to forget that Catholics are the, often singular, voice in saying that we have lost millions and no one weeps for what could have been for them. The blessings that they could have brought to the world, we will never know. May God help us all.
 
seekerz said:
It depends: to my knowledge, there is no official Catholic stance on treatment of every possible life-threatening pregnancy complication but it is left to the woman and her doctors to apply the principles of our faith.

Difficult one and of course we don’t have all the details. Interesting to see what would be the response of people who claim that there are no conditions in which delivery of a pre-viable fetus (medically termed, abortion) is required to save the life of the mother. Complications like this happen every day, they just don’t make the news because the pregnancy usually is ended by medical or surgical means.
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Im curious here?..

Before my wife and I married we were counseled by a priest and asked the question “If your house was on fire who would you save, your wife or children?” Well both my wife and I answered our children…but to our surprise, we were told that it is best that we would save the spouse because of the possibility of conceiving again.

Wouldn’t the situation with the pregnant mother condone the aforementioned scenario? I mean if it came to a life and death situation, wouldn’t saving the mother, even though she would be completely and utterly, emotionally devastated, be just cause in hopes of conceiving another time? What are your thoughts folks?
 
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