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FollowChrist34
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Who is telling women that they don’t have a sex drive?
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Joe_5859
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There’s a tricky question.
I don’t think I can give a direct yes or no. And I think we need to avoid the extremes.I think that we should all want to help each other out. I think it is definitely wrong for a man to try to shift all the responsibility to women and the way they dress—as though they can’t help but lust because the woman “made them do it.” That’s not cool. Not at all.
But I also don’t think that means women can just where whatever they want and claim they have no responsibility whatsoever. Some clothes are designed to draw attention to certain things.
This goes both ways, though. Men should also try to help women out by not wearing speedos or other such things.
Now, if a woman is wearing something immodest, does that mean it’s her fault rather than the man’s fault that he commits the sin of lust. Of course not. But I think we all need to try to help each other out rather than make things more difficult whenever we can. Maybe this is a poor analogy, but if I have a friend who struggles with alcoholism, I’m not going to proudly point out my liquor collection to him every time he comes to visit. (I don’t really have a liquor collection
)Mainly, though, I think modesty in clothing is more about our own dignity rather than ensuring others are not sinning. My wife and daughter both dress pretty modestly (my daughter wears swim shorts and a swim shirt over her one piece bathing suit when she goes swimming
). And it’s not because of me. Believe me, I wouldn’t get very far with telling my wife how I think she should dress. 
I think emotions tend to run high in these discussions because we gravitate towards the extremes. I think if we are all just sensible and sensitive to others, we’ll be fine.
As an aside, I do find it a bit peculiar that we talk about women’s dress more so than men’s. Even in other spheres like politics. I can’t tell you how many articles, even from main stream news sources, I have seen talking about how this or than female politician is dressed. I have never seen an article about the way male politicians dress (save that one time Trump wore a really long tie
). It seems unfair that it still is more socially acceptable to judge women on their looks than it is to judge men. I don’t know if it’s just history, social expectations, or if most people just don’t care how men look. 
And now I think there have been like 20 new posts while I’ve been writing this…
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AlbertDerGrosse
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You know what’s truly scary? HELL! Which is where immodest harlots go. If fearing that head covering leads to a fear of God, then Deo gratias!
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mrsdizzyd
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Now, this I will believe.
Unfortunately, that quote argues they are less likely to commit sins of pride, envy, and avarice which is just false on its face. I don’t even know how the author could have made such an obvious logic error.
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FollowChrist34
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When I was in my 20s I had this tube black mini skirt which I would wear with a black tank top, scarf around the waist. Once while waiting at a crosswalk for the light to change, a guy in a car slowed down and shouted from his car, window rolled down, ‘how much?’ To this day I don’t know if he was serious or joking - I think serious. I have never forgotten how embarrassing that was. Incidentally I got rid of the skirt. Perhaps I was succumbing to repressive, Puritan tendencies? Thank God for them is all I can say. I try not to think about how I dressed in my 20s. I don’t think I am alone in that either.
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Joe_5859
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Thanks for sharing. I’ll have to look through those articles.
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DarkLight
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Yes - I am younger and the construct was still, good girls don’t even THINK about sex. I remember the chastity talks, the construct was that men want sex, women want attention, and women have to fight against the temptation to trade sex for attention.
I’ve been asked essentially the same in a blouse buttoned up to just below my collarbone and a skirt to my ankles.
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Francis
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1 Peter 3:1-7 Wives, in the same way, accept the authority of your husbands, so that, even if some of them do not obey the word, they may be won over without a word by their wives’ conduct, 2 when they see the purity and reverence of your lives. 3 Do not adorn yourselves outwardly by braiding your hair, and by wearing gold ornaments or fine clothing; 4 rather, let your adornment be the inner self with the lasting beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is very precious in God’s sight. 5 It was in this way long ago that the holy women who hoped in God used to adorn themselves by accepting the authority of their husbands. 6 Thus Sarah obeyed Abraham and called him lord. You have become her daughters as long as you do what is good and never let fears alarm you.
7 Husbands, in the same way, show consideration for your wives in your life together, paying honor to the woman as the weaker sex,[a] since they too are also heirs of the gracious gift of life—so that nothing may hinder your prayers.
7 Husbands, in the same way, show consideration for your wives in your life together, paying honor to the woman as the weaker sex,[a] since they too are also heirs of the gracious gift of life—so that nothing may hinder your prayers.
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Joe_5859
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I think we’re generally in agreement here.
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mrsdizzyd
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Some people are just jerks. I’m sorry he made you feel so uncomfortable.
It probably had little to do with what you were wearing. I’ve been accosted by men who said similar things including one pimp who ask me to be one of his girls!!! I am a very modest dresser and always have been. I try to disappear into my clothing (loose fit, most skin covered, etc) and was painfully shy for most of my youth.
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Joe_5859
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It always makes me sad to hear stories like this.
Honestly, I think many guys say such things in a “half serious, half joking” kind of way. As in, “if you’re willing, then I’m serious; if you’re not, then I was joking.”
One of the things this whole #metoo thing has made me realize is that a lot more guys do these types of things than I ever realized.
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Pup7
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Society. Trust me on this.
For decades - and even now - women have been told that “good girls don’t” have sex or even enjoy it. I still hear it. Why do you think slut shaming is a hot topic? We’re not supposed to want it, like it, have it…yes, archaic as it is, that thought is still out there.
That’s part of the reason anything related to female sexuality is such a big deal. We’re not supposed to have any, regardless of what you may see.
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FollowChrist34
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Thanks, I think you are right but I also think I did look like a prostitute, simple as that. It was a lesson I needed to learn. And I have also had that kind of thing happen when I was dressed very modestly (Italy is bad for that ). The guy in the car was a jerk and I probably learned something very valuable through that humiliation. An important point here is that women dress suggestively for attention which can be good or bad depending on where it comes from. Like guys buy fancy cars, watches. None of this is ‘humble.’
). The guy in the car was a jerk and I probably learned something very valuable through that humiliation. An important point here is that women dress suggestively for attention which can be good or bad depending on where it comes from. Like guys buy fancy cars, watches. None of this is ‘humble.’
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Pup7
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One of the things I’ve realized with this whole #metoo thing is how many WOMEN do this to men, and how it’s regarded as okay. Not the yelling stuff like “how much” or catcalls, but how much some push the boundaries and men are ‘expected’ to put up with it.One of the things this whole #metoo thing has made me realize is that a lot more guys do these types of things than I ever realized.
I thought it was pretty hypocritical of Katy Perry to grab the guy she kissed and just force herself on him. The FB comments I saw on that were shocking to say the least. From both sides.
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somecanadian
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There was a TV host the other day who was sexually objectifying a TV star. It was disgusting. She kept making comments about how badly she wanted to ‘bang’ him. On live television…
Nobody corrected her. In comment sections everyone thought it was ‘funny’. But if a man had done the same? Oh nelly… there would have been hell to pay.
And don’t get me started on Katy Perry and how she kept sexually harassing people on American Idol…
Nobody corrected her. In comment sections everyone thought it was ‘funny’. But if a man had done the same? Oh nelly… there would have been hell to pay.
And don’t get me started on Katy Perry and how she kept sexually harassing people on American Idol…
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Pup7
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Laughing because this happened to me in San Antonio - and I promise you I resembled an ad for Talbot’s and not prostitution - and the look on the guy’s face when I told him I was a cop (and at the time, I was, albeit Air Force!) was priceless.
I bet he hasn’t done it since. LOL.
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DarkLight
Guest
I would say there’s also a lot of side problems I’ve noticed:
One is what I call post hoc immodesty. Where a woman complains about the inappropriate behavior of a man, and is immediately instructed to dress more modestly or asked what she was wearing. This can happen even if the woman isn’t known for immodesty, or if what she was wearing was perfectly acceptable beforehand - the fact that a man paid her inappropriate attention is a reason to suspect her of immodesty. And like many cases, one who goes looking hard enough can find something.
The other is that I’ve noticed that many of the models of modesty have a particular look that, quite frankly, not all of us look like. I have curves. I would have curves in a potato sack. That’s just life. I don’t look like the stick-straight modesty models and I never will.
We call it Schroedinger’s creep.
Yes. That is the flip side of regarding men as having an unlimited sex drive. It’s so ridiculous to people that a man would actually say no, that when they do it’s disregarded.
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Pup7
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I seriously think that has contributed to “no means yes”.
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BoomBoomMancini
Guest
To be fair, there is a pretty key difference when women harass men. As a guy, I know that it’s overwhelmingly likely that if a woman tried to do something unwelcome to me, worst case scenario I can simply shove her off. Not to say that there aren’t women out there who could kick my butt, but as a general rule, it’s not something I worry about. And I’m a standard issue 180 lbs dude, not a cage fighter.
Women obviously can’t fall back on physical force quite as easily. At least, not as a default option, because theyre almost always going to be squaring off with someone bigger and stronger.
Not telling you anything you don’t know obviously, just thinking out loud.
Women obviously can’t fall back on physical force quite as easily. At least, not as a default option, because theyre almost always going to be squaring off with someone bigger and stronger.
Not telling you anything you don’t know obviously, just thinking out loud.
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Joe_5859
Guest
There’s a name for it?! That’s actually kind of a fitting name.
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