Women and "Those Images"

[Kensho]

Not my place to figure out the legal, but as a nurse, if someone says they’ve been raped then we treat it as such. The hallmark of rape is that it is done against one’s will or while one is too incapacitated to give consent (two or three beers is not going to cut it.) So, if both parties showed up claiming rape we’d take a BAC and tox screen to confirm how much alcohol and/or barbiturates they had in their systems plus rape kits. If both were equally inebriated I doubt it would make it to court. This would be especially true if there was no physical trauma or signs of a struggle and all signs pointed to consensual drunk sex that both regretted once they sobered up a bit.

This is a little off-track, but we’re already off-track, so:

If a man or woman has been the victim of rape, should he or she go immediately to the emergency room before doing anything else?

 

[silentfactor80]

Not my place to figure out the legal, but as a nurse, if someone says they’ve been raped then we treat it as such. The hallmark of rape is that it is done against one’s will or while one is too incapacitated to give consent (two or three beers is not going to cut it.) So, if both parties showed up claiming rape we’d take a BAC and tox screen to confirm how much alcohol and/or barbiturates they had in their systems plus rape kits. If both were equally inebriated I doubt it would make it to court. This would be especially true if there was no physical trauma or signs of a struggle and all signs pointed to consensual drunk sex that both regretted once they sobered up a bit.

The fact of the matter is that is not how the law is applied. The guy is guilty and has to prove otherwise which is not possible or only so under the slimmest of circumstances. I have a friend that works for a law office and he said when it comes to problems like these the guy might as well save the tax payers money and drive himself to jail.

Also, rape is not as you say according to the FBI’s definition that only recently made it slightly possible that men can be raped. As Kensho said, no one cares when it is a guy.

I agree we are way off topic though. Sorry about that jamie86. We should be helping you but maybe our fire will remind you that somethings are hotter than lust

 

[JackieMom]

This is a little off-track, but we’re already off-track, so:

If a man or woman has been the victim of rape, should he or she go immediately to the emergency room before doing anything else?

Yes, or call 911. Every minute that passes is lost evidence.

 

[The_Bucket]

The fact of the matter is that is not how the law is applied. The guy is guilty and has to prove otherwise which is not possible or only so under the slimmest of circumstances. I have a friend that works for a law office and he said when it comes to problems like these the guy might as well save the tax payers money and drive himself to jail.

So because you have a friend that says this, it must be true. Please. Most sexual assaults are not reported. Women do not just cry “RAPE” and guys end up in prison. I’m sure it’s happened a couple of times but it’s far from being a systemic problem.

Also, rape is not as you say according to the FBI’s definition that only recently made it slightly possible that men can be raped. As Kensho said, no one cares when it is a guy.

Last I checked, “forcible sodomy” was a crime. Last I checked “sexual battery” is a crime. Just because “rape” has a different legal definition does not mean men cannot be victims of sexual crimes, even those that do not involve penetration and where the perpetrator is s a woman.

My main beef here is that these situations are not remotely close to common and you’re acting like they’re some kind of systemic issue. Under-reporting of sexual assault is an issue. Prison rape is an issue. Female teachers taking advantage of underage male students is an issue. Women “date raping” a guy is not something that happens on any kind of remotely regular basis. Women being the victim of sexual crime is something that happens on a regular basis.

 

[JackieMom]

So because you have a friend that says this, it must be true. Please. Most sexual assaults are not reported. Women do not just cry “RAPE” and guys end up in prison. I’m sure it’s happened a couple of times but it’s far from being a systemic problem.

Last I checked, “forcible sodomy” was a crime. Last I checked “sexual battery” is a crime. Just because “rape” has a different legal definition does not mean men cannot be victims of sexual crimes, even those that do not involve penetration and where the perpetrator is s a woman.

My main beef here is that these situations are not remotely close to common and you’re acting like they’re some kind of systemic issue. Under-reporting of sexual assault is an issue. Prison rape is an issue. Female teachers taking advantage of underage male students is an issue. Women “date raping” a guy is not something that happens on any kind of remotely regular basis. Women being the victim of sexual crime is something that happens on a regular basis.

Right. And my husband is an attorney who worked for te DA for four years. It’s actually really hard to get rape charges to stick. The burden of proof is on the state. There is often little evidence and no witnesses.

 

[ATeutonicKnight]

I saw your other thread and I’m terribly sorry for what happened to you. As an aside to this thread, I think you should go to the police about it. It hasn’t been beyond the statute of limitations and it needs to be dealt with. I’ve know more people than I care to who are victims of abuse as children. Chances are that your brother learned this behavior from someone else and could be a former victim himself. That doesn’t excuse the behavior, but it does point to the fact that it’s something that could be passed on to someone else and it needs to be curtailed. Immediately. And with the force of law behind it.

That said, you were and still are a child if I recall correctly. You being the victim of abuse is not the same as a man. Yes, men are raped. Usually by other men. Very rarely do you see the case of a man being raped by a woman. It happens and should be taken seriously when it does, but SF80’s argument is specious. The number of woman-on-man rapes pales in comparison to just the reported man-on-woman rapes out there. One in six women are the victim of some kind of sexual assault. One in six! That means you and I probably know someone who is a sexual assault victim. That’s a crazy figure.

I can’t even get into the rest of SF80’s points. He’s already had a thread on “men as sexism victims” locked because he was going on and on with borderline victim-blaming remarks. Oh, and he really lost it because I told him that men need to suck it up and stop whining about society being “against us.” But dude, we do. We definitely do. 20% of us are not victims of sexual assault. Women are. They need more physical protection than we do. Civil/family law needs some changing because of what goes down in divorce situations, but when it comes to criminal law, I think women and children are actually not protected enough.

Oh, I completely agree with everything you’ve said. I hope I didn’t unintentionally imply differently before. Women are being treated terribly, and it needs to stop. I have a friend who is a victim of attempted rape. The guy was a friend and they were out prom dress shopping. The fact that ever happened is disgusting, and it needs to stop.

 

[silentfactor80]

I saw your other thread and I’m terribly sorry for what happened to you. As an aside to this thread, I think you should go to the police about it. It hasn’t been beyond the statute of limitations and it needs to be dealt with. I’ve know more people than I care to who are victims of abuse as children. Chances are that your brother learned this behavior from someone else and could be a former victim himself. That doesn’t excuse the behavior, but it does point to the fact that it’s something that could be passed on to someone else and it needs to be curtailed. Immediately. And with the force of law behind it.

That said, you were and still are a child if I recall correctly. You being the victim of abuse is not the same as a man. Yes, men are raped. Usually by other men. Very rarely do you see the case of a man being raped by a woman. It happens and should be taken seriously when it does, but SF80’s argument is specious. The number of woman-on-man rapes pales in comparison to just the reported man-on-woman rapes out there. One in six women are the victim of some kind of sexual assault. One in six! That means you and I probably know someone who is a sexual assault victim. That’s a crazy figure.

I can’t even get into the rest of SF80’s points. He’s already had a thread on “men as sexism victims” locked because he was going on and on with borderline victim-blaming remarks. Oh, and he really lost it because I told him that men need to suck it up and stop whining about society being “against us.” But dude, we do. We definitely do. 20% of us are not victims of sexual assault. Women are. They need more physical protection than we do. Civil/family law needs some changing because of what goes down in divorce situations, but when it comes to criminal law, I think women and children are actually not protected enough.

You know exactly why those other threads got closed? Are you a mod? I don’t think so. They got closed because some people couldn’t stand having their stereotypes challenged and kept harping on it. I NEVER blamed any victim. All I said was that men are often victims and society IGNORES them. That was just as bad as the days when women had no where to turn when they were abused. Why do you think that should be inflicted on men? That is very un-Catholic.

20% is not a nice number and it should be 0%. You know what though, it is still less than half. MUCH less than half! Most women will never be raped. Thank God for that! If 100% of men were a victim of something and only 1% of women for the same crime you would still give preference to women. We are all God’s children and with neither men nor women deserving preference for anything. Please return to “sucking it up.” Why break your great record?

 

[silentfactor80]

So because you have a friend that says this, it must be true. Please. Most sexual assaults are not reported. Women do not just cry “RAPE” and guys end up in prison. I’m sure it’s happened a couple of times but it’s far from being a systemic problem.

Last I checked, “forcible sodomy” was a crime. Last I checked “sexual battery” is a crime. Just because “rape” has a different legal definition does not mean men cannot be victims of sexual crimes, even those that do not involve penetration and where the perpetrator is s a woman.

My main beef here is that these situations are not remotely close to common and you’re acting like they’re some kind of systemic issue. Under-reporting of sexual assault is an issue. Prison rape is an issue. Female teachers taking advantage of underage male students is an issue. Women “date raping” a guy is not something that happens on any kind of remotely regular basis. Women being the victim of sexual crime is something that happens on a regular basis.

If you read my earlier post which I am sure you did not, you would have realized that men are more often victims of violence in general. Yet you don’t hear about that at all. Why? Just because one man is violent against another it doesn’t matter? Not a big deal? We don’t hear about prison rape! Why isn’t that a big deal? We joke about that even! The message you propagate is that it is OK for men to be victims of violence but not women. We should be working to ensure NEITHER are victims of violence and when women perpetrate it they deserve the same treatment as men (i.e. prison sentence).

 

[The_Bucket]

If you read my earlier post which I am sure you did not, you would have realized that men are more often victims of violence in general. Yet you don’t hear about that at all. Why? Just because one man is violent against another it doesn’t matter? Not a big deal? We don’t hear about prison rape! Why isn’t that a big deal? We joke about that even! The message you propagate is that it is OK for men to be victims of violence but not women. We should be working to ensure NEITHER are victims of violence and when women perpetrate it they deserve the same treatment as men (i.e. prison sentence).

No. I actually in that other thread made the point that men tend to be the victims of violence more because they take certain actions women never would. Men walk around bad areas of town, alone, at night. Women have it drilled into their heads to never do that. Men also tend to be more involved in more violent subcultures like gangs and organized crime than women.

I don’t joke about prison rape, but I can tell you that society as a whole doesn’t joke about it because it’s men. They joke about it because it involves prisoners who are, apparently, subhuman. No one cares about people in prison because hey, they deserved it. So whatever happens to them while in prison is on them. It’s a cousin of the victim-blaming that goes on when it comes to sexual assault on women when said woman has a bad reputation or was out drinking and wearing a miniskirt. Both are disgusting.

 

[jamie86]

WOW again guys! You guys got way off topic but THANK YOU! It has made me realize how bad and how much trouble watching perverse images can be. Watching you guys duke it out may even count as penance?

I would love to comment on the other comments but there are too many lol. All I will say is that living in fear of men is not for me. I understand the need for caution but I feel if I feared men like some here do I would go absolutely crazy. That is just not healthy. I think sweetpetunia said it the best up there somewhere.

SF80 is quite interesting to say the least and I don’t think his posts are victim blaming. He sounds like a guy that has been deeply burned and I think as people of faith we should be there for him. If SF80 was a woman I think we would be treating him differently, maybe. SF80, as a mother of a son I appreciate you wanting to make the world a little better for him. You should choose your words a little more carefully though. You don’t want to throw a good case because of doublespeak or something.

 

[The_Bucket]

WOW again guys! You guys got way off topic but THANK YOU! It has made me realize how bad and how much trouble watching perverse images can be. Watching you guys duke it out may even count as penance?

I think it’s been suggested before, but you might get something out of the CAF forum dedicated to those who have addictive sexual behaviors. You can find it here: forums.catholic-questions.org/group.php?groupid=369

While I think it’s fair to say that most people in this group are men, there are a decent number of women and you might benefit from linking up with them via PM.

 

[silentfactor80]

No. I actually in that other thread made the point that men tend to be the victims of violence more because they take certain actions women never would. Men walk around bad areas of town, alone, at night. Women have it drilled into their heads to never do that. **Men also tend to be more involved in more violent subcultures like gangs and organized crime than women. **

I don’t joke about prison rape, but I can tell you that society as a whole doesn’t joke about it because it’s men. They joke about it because it involves prisoners who are, apparently, subhuman. No one cares about people in prison because hey, they deserved it. So whatever happens to them while in prison is on them. It’s a cousin of the victim-blaming that goes on when it comes to sexual assault on women when said woman has a bad reputation or was out drinking and wearing a miniskirt. Both are disgusting.

Bold 1: Victim blaming.

Bold 2: That is because they do it for survival. They can’t get pregnant and all the nice government perks that come with it. For a man, gangs and prison are the best ways to survive when you lack an education or had parents that dumped you.

 

[The_Bucket]

Making the decision to join a gang is quite the conscious decision to do violence to other people. I understand that the decisions are not ones that are always made with full freedom of will, but they’re conscious decisions nonetheless.

In the other case, I’m not blaming the victim. I’m pointing out why the statistics are there. Men make themselves more vulnerable to crimes like robbery than women because women have it drilled into their heads that they need to do more to protect themselves. Plus men tend to get into fights more often than women because, well, I mean we’re men. We tend to fight.

As for the whole “they can’t get pregnant” bit, that’s a really shocking and disturbing statement. Sure, there are people that abuse the system but it’s not limited to women. Plenty of people of both genders abuse the welfare system. And plenty of women get into relationships where they think they are really in love, get pregnant and then the men bail on them. It’s a societal issue that’s not going to be solved by pointing fingers and saying “women have it so much easier than men!”

Because the fact of the matter is that they don’t. Women are physically weaker. Women are less likely to be hired for blue-collar work that booms during economic recoveries; basically it’s easier for a less-educated man to get a job than a less-educated woman. Women can get pregnant and that leads to all kinds of burdens when there is no stable household.

I’m not blaming men for these ills. They are societal ills caused and perpetuated by people of both sexes and over multiple generations.

But don’t kvetch about men getting the short end of the stick just because you don’t have a woman or some woman in the past did you wrong. Because bro, we both know that’s where this is all coming from. Men and women have done one another wrong for millenia. It’s wrong and it’s hurtful. It’s also life.

 

[Luvz2travel]

Hi CAF! Jamie here! I am posting for what advice you would give a woman who has a problem with pornography, specifically of the “women / women” variety. The woman is married to a man and can’t explain why she is into that stuff. She is distraught that she is more aroused by this kind of porn than by her husband who is quite in tune and gentle with her. She also can’t seem to get enough or get away from it. I know this is a big problem for men but it seems in recent years women are catching up especially with all female same-sex porn. What to do?

You know images have never really done anything for me but I used to real those romance novels and gave them up in my early 20s when I came to realize they were really nothing but a softer form of porn. I just went cold turkey I realize that maybe hard but with any addiction you have to just come to a point and say I’m done and have the strength to follow through. Prayers.

 

[silentfactor80]

Making the decision to join a gang is quite the conscious decision to do violence to other people. I understand that the decisions are not ones that are always made with full freedom of will, but they’re conscious decisions nonetheless.

In the other case, I’m not blaming the victim. I’m pointing out why the statistics are there. Men make themselves more vulnerable to crimes like robbery than women because women have it drilled into their heads that they need to do more to protect themselves. Plus men tend to get into fights more often than women because, well, I mean we’re men. We tend to fight.

As for the whole “they can’t get pregnant” bit, that’s a really shocking and disturbing statement. Sure, there are people that abuse the system but it’s not limited to women. Plenty of people of both genders abuse the welfare system. And plenty of women get into relationships where they think they are really in love, get pregnant and then the men bail on them. It’s a societal issue that’s not going to be solved by pointing fingers and saying “women have it so much easier than men!”

Because the fact of the matter is that they don’t. Women are physically weaker. Women are less likely to be hired for blue-collar work that booms during economic recoveries; basically it’s easier for a less-educated man to get a job than a less-educated woman. Women can get pregnant and that leads to all kinds of burdens when there is no stable household.

I’m not blaming men for these ills. They are societal ills caused and perpetuated by people of both sexes and over multiple generations.

But don’t kvetch about men getting the short end of the stick just because you don’t have a woman or some woman in the past did you wrong. Because bro, we both know that’s where this is all coming from. Men and women have done one another wrong for millenia. It’s wrong and it’s hurtful. It’s also life.

Well when the choice is between eating and roughing someone up I think we know quite well what most people would choose. Especially when society IGNORES them. Does anyone see the homeless on the streets of which 90% are men and of those 70% are veterans!! You know, the type that gave their lives so you and I can sit here arguing.

And women have it drilled into their heads not to get drunk and watch their drink yet that kind of rape still happens. Did you not follow the recent case in Ohio? She was drunk and drugged.

Men get into fights more often but no one does anything to find out why or if there is a better way to help guys deal with that. I can tell you though that your “suck it up” philosophy is quite counterproductive to that because eventually the cork blows and you get a mess. If society would let guys air their concerns without facing malice THAT would be a good way to relieve the pressure.

Women are more educated than men in general. Over 60% of college degrees awarded go to women. Women tend to take state jobs with excellent benefits while guys take those blue collar jobs that often pay poorly and involve HUGE risk like construction. A guy can’t do that work for long without health issues. Then when he gets sick the issue of “men’s health” is non-existent. There is a reason men die about 5 years earlier than women on average and again no one cares.

FYI, whether I don’t have a woman or got burned is irrelevant. I am not blaming women but I am blaming society for constantly cutting women a blank check while completely dismissing the issues men face. I gave an example in the sexism thread of Obamacare and how it is a feminist lobby pay off. Those nuts always say they are for equality yet their actions say otherwise. Obamacare - 7 offices for women’s health, 0 for men…Someone needs to teach feminists and those who support them basic math!! That is not equality.

 

[Kensho]

Yes, or call 911. Every minute that passes is lost evidence.

Okay, I realize that probably sounds like an obtuse question but I had always pictured clinics that dealt specifically with rape victims.

 

[The_Bucket]

Well when the choice is between eating and roughing someone up I think we know quite well what most people would choose. Especially when society IGNORES them. Does anyone see the homeless on the streets of which 90% are men and of those 70% are veterans!! You know, the type that gave their lives so you and I can sit here arguing.

The homeless are usually homeless for reasons other than not being able to find a job. They are usually substance addicts and/or mentally ill. That they continue to survive on the street is a testimony to the fact that men are physically hardier than women. Nothing more.

And women have it drilled into their heads not to get drunk and watch their drink yet that kind of rape still happens. Did you not follow the recent case in Ohio? She was drunk and drugged.

Dude. Dude. DUDE. Yes I followed that case. Why was that young girl raped? Because a bunch of predators thought that they could do whatever they wanted with a physically weaker and incapacitated person and that their status as football demigods would let them avoid punishment. The folks that were standing around failed to intervene because they are disgusting cowards. They not only lacked fortitude and manliness, but they lacked an understanding of basic human dignity. Intervening would have been easy. Instead they took video of it.

Women are more educated than men in general. Over 60% of college degrees awarded go to women.

Then more men should go to college. Don’t blame women for that. Achieve in school.

Then when he gets sick the issue of “men’s health” is non-existent. There is a reason men die about 5 years earlier than women on average and again no one cares.

Oh really? They don’t care? What about all the prostate/colon screening commercials you see from “CBSCares” and whatnot. Women have more health issues related to fertility than men do. Men do not die earlier because society ignores them. Even in countries with very aged populations and extremely strong safety nets women tend to live longer than men. Japan is a great example. Plenty of men living over 100. Still more women. It’s biology.

I won’t even get into the rest of your diatribe because it just screams beta.

If you want a place to vent, don’t do it in a co-ed setting. It’s not masculine. I found great camaraderie in a men’s Scripture group that doubles as a kind of a little fraternity of regular guys just trying to be good Catholics. Join the KoC. Create or join a social men’s only club. There are still plenty of places where men can just be themselves with other men.

 

[The_Bucket]

Okay, I realize that probably sounds like an obtuse question but I had always pictured clinics that dealt specifically with rape victims.

It’s really a multi-step process; I don’t know of any clinic like that. From what I gather, you call 911 or go to the ER. If they suspect assault, the police get called and you work from there. Then the recovery/protection process kicks in and women can find shelters if necessary. There’s no one-stop-shop but hospitals do all they can.

 

[LisaA]

You know images have never really done anything for me but I used to real those romance novels and gave them up in my early 20s when I came to realize they were really nothing but a softer form of porn. I just went cold turkey I realize that maybe hard but with any addiction you have to just come to a point and say I’m done and have the strength to follow through. Prayers.

This is an interesting aside as we all hear about the craze for what is apparently a rather pornographic series “50 Shades of Gray.” From what I hear this is about bondage or sadism or some other wierd fantasy yet it is seen everywhere. As to the romance novels i am in no way equating them as this is clearly porn. But it’s also clear that women seem to get hooked on this stuff and it’s apparently a series not just a smutty novel.

Again I think you have pointed out the first step which is recognizing the problem, prayer and resolve to keep trying to avoid not just the sin but the occasion of sin.

Jamie I am glad you weighed in again as the thread has strayed and I hope you are getting some good advice.

LIsa

 

[LisaA]

Well when the choice is between eating and roughing someone up I think we know quite well what most people would choose. Especially when society IGNORES them. Does anyone see the homeless on the streets of which 90% are men and of those 70% are veterans!! You know, the type that gave their lives so you and I can sit here arguing.

SF80 this is TOTALLY off topic and also very misleading. 70% of the homeless are not veterans although I have seen many claim to be vets, particularly at a standown where goodies are being passed out. I have been involved in a large volunteer troop/veterans support group since 2005 and we do have a special focus on vets who are not transitioning well into civilian life. So please do not presume I dont understand their issues.

You are correct that the majority of homeless are male but the majority of homeless of both sexes have either substance abuse problems and/or untreated mental health issues. The most effecitive programs focus on the reasons for homelessness and help them get treatment. Some of them do NOT want treatment however. This life altough certainly unappealing to me has captured many souls. If you are involved in this ministry, it’s something you have to accept.

I believe one poster mentioned that more men are involved in violence and crime than are women. This is true. Please don’t claim it’s the fault of society. The vast majority of criminals are not only males but young males. I don’t think it’s any coincidence that more young males are involved in auto accidents and in the consequences of high risk behavior.

Men and women ARE different. And no I don’t think this gives women a pass just because they are women but please recognize that males and females are very different and each is prone to different behaviors and actions.

Back to the thread…the problem of porn destroying marriages and careers and lives IS mostly a male problem but as Jamie noted, it can be a very serious problem in women. I hope the discussion turns to more positive helps and less to the finger pointing and name calling.

Lisa