Women and "Those Images"

[Kensho]

I’m wondering now if the OP should tell her husband? Or would that be bad? I have no idea.

 

[Kensho]

If you want a place to vent, don’t do it in a co-ed setting. It’s not masculine. I found great camaraderie in a men’s Scripture group that doubles as a kind of a little fraternity of regular guys just trying to be good Catholics. Join the KoC. Create or join a social men’s only club. There are still plenty of places where men can just be themselves with other men.

This is good advice. There is some clear frustration in these posts that should probably be dealt with in a setting with other men who have been there and understand.

 

[The_Bucket]

I’m wondering now if the OP should tell her husband? Or would that be bad? I have no idea.

I’d say it depends on the relationship. And the addiction. Has the addiction bled over into other behaviors? Has the secrecy that usually revolves around this addiction led to the OP becoming passive-aggressive, lash out in anger or commit emotional abuse?

I think it’s probably something best left to ask a confessor and/or a therapist.

I’m a recovering pornography addict myself and I didn’t get the choice to bring it forward or not. I was discovered and it was a major, major situation. But looking back on it, I don’t think it would have been nearly as damaging if I actually, you know, actually took action to combat the addiction. Real and dramatic action that is. Instead I nearly blew up my family because I lied about it for years and turned into a psychotic lunatic. My self-hatred bled into hatred of others. I don’t mean violence with action but I do mean violence with words. Some of the things I would say about people were very, very disturbing. To the point where I would have road rage situations with my family in the car. Not honking at other people, but just going ballistic with extremely loud yelling inside my own car and insisting that everyone around me needed to be exterminated from the Earth so I could be at peace.

Of course, that would probably be way worse since I already hated myself so much! Cruel irony.

I think there’s something to be said about bringing it forward. I also think there’s something to be said about dealing with it privately but never denying it if asked.

 

[silentfactor80]

…

I believe one poster mentioned that more men are involved in violence and crime than are women. This is true. Please don’t claim it’s the fault of society. The vast majority of criminals are not only males but young males. I don’t think it’s any coincidence that more young males are involved in auto accidents and in the consequences of high risk behavior.

Men and women ARE different. And no I don’t think this gives women a pass just because they are women but please recognize that males and females are very different and each is prone to different behaviors and actions.

Back to the thread…the problem of porn destroying marriages and careers and lives IS mostly a male problem but as Jamie noted, it can be a very serious problem in women. I hope the discussion turns to more positive helps and less to the finger pointing and name calling.

Lisa

Bold 1: That is because we assume men can just figure everything out on their own and as a result they don’t ask for help like women do. Also, it has to do with how society defines masculinity. How many girls do you see drooling over the nerd in HS? Not many if any. They sure do love the brain bashing quarterback though or the grand slugger on the baseball team. Women subtly encourage men to take risks by putting a high value on “alpha male” behavior which is without doubt toxic.

Bold 2: Yes, men and women are different. Men are awful and women are noble. That seems to be the message in your posts. I am well aware of the differences and in most cases they are exaggerated. They also fail to account for the old nurture over nature issue. If all that mattered was our biology then we would be no different than the rest of the animals out there. Look at #5 and #2 in this article (livescience.com/16900-busted-gender-myths-bedroom.html). You will find that much of what you have claimed in this thread and the other was debunked by science. I hate to tell you but men are not the awful creatures you make us out to be. I tend to think that when women insist on casting men as shallow animals there is some deep-seated insecurity they need to get worked out.

Women have been using pornography more and more in recent years as the culture changes and it becomes more acceptable for women to be sexually expressive. By claiming that pornography is a male only problem you only invalidate and make women like the OP feel worse. Enough with the female high horse.

 

[silentfactor80]

The homeless are usually homeless for reasons other than not being able to find a job. They are usually substance addicts and/or mentally ill. That they continue to survive on the street is a testimony to the fact that men are physically hardier than women. Nothing more.

Dude. Dude. DUDE. Yes I followed that case. Why was that young girl raped? Because a bunch of predators thought that they could do whatever they wanted with a physically weaker and incapacitated person and that their status as football demigods would let them avoid punishment. The folks that were standing around failed to intervene because they are disgusting cowards. They not only lacked fortitude and manliness, but they lacked an understanding of basic human dignity. Intervening would have been easy. Instead they took video of it.

Then more men should go to college. Don’t blame women for that. Achieve in school.

Oh really? They don’t care? What about all the prostate/colon screening commercials you see from “CBSCares” and whatnot. Women have more health issues related to fertility than men do. Men do not die earlier because society ignores them. Even in countries with very aged populations and extremely strong safety nets women tend to live longer than men. Japan is a great example. Plenty of men living over 100. Still more women. It’s biology.

**I won’t even get into the rest of your diatribe because it just screams beta.

If you want a place to vent, don’t do it in a co-ed setting. It’s not masculine.** I found great camaraderie in a men’s Scripture group that doubles as a kind of a little fraternity of regular guys just trying to be good Catholics. Join the KoC. Create or join a social men’s only club. There are still plenty of places where men can just be themselves with other men.

Bold 1: Affirmative action and giving women generous scholarships that aren’t given to men is a HUGE issue. In the sciences we see very impressive scholarships go to women but men in nursing get squat. It is called sexism!

Bold 2: Oh, I am sorry. Are you the masculine police? Do you decide for every man out there was is masculine and what is not? Sorry pal but I do not carry the same torch of masculinity that you do. You think taking abuse and neglect makes you a man. I think advocating fair treatment and justice is masculine. If one is putting on a different face with men than with women that is what I call a phony. You are who you are and that’s it. Women vent in co-ed settings to get what they want. It seems to work quite well as a lot of guys seem to bend over backwards for them. Guys can’t address our concerns with women? LOL! What are they afraid of? What are you afraid of?

 

[LisaA]

Bold 1: That is because we assume men can just figure everything out on their own and as a result they don’t ask for help like women do. Also, it has to do with how society defines masculinity. How many girls do you see drooling over the nerd in HS? Not many if any. They sure do love the brain bashing quarterback though or the grand slugger on the baseball team. Women subtly encourage men to take risks by putting a high value on “alpha male” behavior which is without doubt toxic.

Bold 2: Yes, men and women are different. Men are awful and women are noble. That seems to be the message in your posts. I am well aware of the differences and in most cases they are exaggerated. They also fail to account for the old nurture over nature issue. If all that mattered was our biology then we would be no different than the rest of the animals out there. Look at #5 and #2 in this article (livescience.com/16900-busted-gender-myths-bedroom.html). You will find that much of what you have claimed in this thread and the other was debunked by science. I hate to tell you but men are not the awful creatures you make us out to be. I tend to think that when women insist on casting men as shallow animals there is some deep-seated insecurity they need to get worked out.

Women have been using pornography more and more in recent years as the culture changes and it becomes more acceptable for women to be sexually expressive. By claiming that pornography is a male only problem you only invalidate and make women like the OP feel worse. Enough with the female high horse.

Look you have such anger that it’s not a dialogue anymore, just you setting up strawmen and ignoring facts. Sorry for whatever happened to you that made you so hostile.

Lisa

 

[jamie86]

As I said before guys, thank you for all the advice. I have lots of things to think about thanks to you guys. In returning the favor I would like to ask you guys to stop beating up on each other. I dated a guy like SF80 once. They ARE NOT bad guys by any means. They are sensitive and there is nothing wrong with that! He made some good points though he did so in a brash manner. In fact my husband is the sensitive type and there is great strength in being able to confess your heart. It is probably harder to confess yourself than just “suck it up.” No one should have to keep stress bottled up and who they express it to shouldn’t matter. If my husband kept things bottled up I would feel like a failure as a wife. Married men live longer for a reason. God gave women to men to take the stress away, not add to it. Yes, BTW he does know of my problem. He has been a great source of strength through this for me.

 

[jamie86]

Look you have such anger that it’s not a dialogue anymore, just you setting up strawmen and ignoring facts. Sorry for whatever happened to you that made you so hostile.

Lisa

Actually he did present a good link that I would be curious as to what your response is. We all know myths pervade and when they go unchallenged people suffer badly. I am a perfect example. There is so little on women’s addiction to pornography and I can’t explain how that made me feel. We are told “its not a woman’s problem.” Look at Beggars Daughter. I am a woman and it is my problem so yes, IT IS a woman’s problem.

 

[silentfactor80]

Look you have such anger that it’s not a dialogue anymore, just you setting up strawmen and ignoring facts. Sorry for whatever happened to you that made you so hostile.

Lisa

What facts am I ignoring? The one’s that challenge the myths some believe. You are ignoring the ones I actually provided a link to. Remember when we KNEW the world was flat? Yeah that was a big flop. How do you explain nature versus nurture? Seriously. What in your opinion about what makes us different than animals? In the animal kingdom females look for the biggest and baddest male. They look for status. Are we to assume that is what human females do just because of biology? Of coarse we think of women as more noble than that so why is thinking of men as more than our biology such a hard thing to do for you?

jamie86:

Actually he did present a good link that I would be curious as to what your response is. We all know myths pervade and when they go unchallenged people suffer badly. I am a perfect example. There is so little on women’s addiction to pornography and I can’t explain how that made me feel. We are told “its not a woman’s problem.” Look at Beggars Daughter. I am a woman and it is my problem so yes, IT IS a woman’s problem.

THANK YOU! Glad to know some nice ladies out there.

 

[Kensho]

As I said before guys, thank you for all the advice. I have lots of things to think about thanks to you guys. In returning the favor I would like to ask you guys to stop beating up on each other. I dated a guy like SF80 once. They ARE NOT bad guys by any means. They are sensitive and there is nothing wrong with that! He made some good points though he did so in a brash manner. In fact my husband is the sensitive type and there is great strength in being able to confess your heart. It is probably harder to confess yourself than just “suck it up.” No one should have to keep stress bottled up and who they express it to shouldn’t matter. If my husband kept things bottled up I would feel like a failure as a wife. Married men live longer for a reason. God gave women to men to take the stress away, not add to it. Yes, BTW he does know of my problem. He has been a great source of strength through this for me.

True, he doesn’t seem like a bad guy to me, either. Wrong about some things, but so are we all. The man/woman issue is so fraught and we all bring our own particular pain to it; it’s hard to discuss without getting angry.

But back to your original issue! Maybe you should read the pornography addiction materials that are intended for men and just sort of translate it in your head to make it apply to you. I haven’t seen anything yet that deals with women’s sexual sin as anything other than emotional neediness arising from a father fixation, as if we don’t actually have hormones or serious struggles with concupiscence.

 

[JackieMom]

What facts am I ignoring? The one’s that challenge the myths some believe. You are ignoring the ones I actually provided a link to. Remember when we KNEW the world was flat? Yeah that was a big flop. How do you explain nature versus nurture? Seriously. What in your opinion about what makes us different than animals? In the animal kingdom females look for the biggest and baddest male. They look for status. Are we to assume that is what human females do just because of biology? Of coarse we think of women as more noble than that so why is thinking of men as more than our biology such a hard thing to do for you?

THANK YOU! Glad to know some nice ladies out there.

In nature, females select for advantageous breeding - whatever that means for that species. It’s not always “biggest and badest.” Humans do the same. Women look for characteristics that idicate that a man can support and protect a family, make intelligent choices, and for signs that he is virile and fertile. Men do, too. Even men in their 40s and 50s are drawn to young (i.e. fertile) and buxom (i.e. able to nurse offspring) females. They look for women with qualities that indicate they will make good mothers so that their offspring survive. Both sexes seek attractive mates because it is indicative of good genetics and health. It’s very simple. It’s not wrong. And not only females do it. We should all choose our mates wisely with the future in mind, and with a good sense of what we expect from a spouse.

 

[LisaA]

Actually he did present a good link that I would be curious as to what your response is. We all know myths pervade and when they go unchallenged people suffer badly. I am a perfect example. There is so little on women’s addiction to pornography and I can’t explain how that made me feel. We are told “its not a woman’s problem.” Look at Beggars Daughter. I am a woman and it is my problem so yes, IT IS a woman’s problem.

Jamie I never said that porn wasn’t also a problem for women so please don’t accuse me of something I didn’t state. I have disagreed with Silent because he is so hostile and setting up strawmen such as “men are seen as brutes and women are seen as delicate flowers.” The argument I have with HIM is completely off the topic of porn and I noted that. Also disputed his claim that 70% of homeless are veterans and his failure to acknowledge that the majority of homeless have substance abuse and/or mental health issues. Again I have not disupted that this is a serious problem and that it is a women’s problem as well.

I hope some of the practical steps dealing with compulsions as you have stated are helpful
I wish you well in your struggle.

Lisa

 

[The_Bucket]

To really get to the root of the issue, I think the stereotype that women are more into erotic writing versus images should be disabused as well. It may well be that the majority of people who read things like 50 Shades are women, but that doesn’t mean that’s the only kind of pornography that women get into.

Don’t quote me on this, but I believe that statistics have shown that about 30% of those who watch pornographic materials like videos and photos are women. And it’s not just spouses/girlfriends who are doing it to make their men happy.

I think it’s quite true that pornography is more of a male problem than it is a female problem, but there’s a pretty strong minority of women out there who deal with this issue. Men and women are wired differently when it comes to sex, but we’re still wired to desire sex. A lot. That can manifest itself in all kinds of ways across both genders and it’s an easy avenue for Satan to weasel his way into our lives.

The way I see it, sexuality is what makes us most “like God” in that it gives love and gives life. We mortal men and women are of course going to abuse the heck out of it and obviously Satan wants to encourage that! What better way to get a swipe in at God to have His people pervert a gift that allows us to be co-creators with Him and provides for a sort of Earthly immortality by creating progeny.

Since both men and women are provided with this gift, it only makes sense that Satan would attack both sexes. His methods for deception may be different for each individual and there may be some general trends based on how men and women are wired, but sexual addiction is not just a problem for one sex or the other.

 

[silentfactor80]

Jamie I never said that porn wasn’t also a problem for women so please don’t accuse me of something I didn’t state. I have disagreed with Silent because he is so hostile and setting up strawmen such as “men are seen as brutes and women are seen as delicate flowers.” The argument I have with HIM is completely off the topic of porn and I noted that. Also disputed his claim that 70% of homeless are veterans and his failure to acknowledge that the majority of homeless have substance abuse and/or mental health issues. Again I have not disupted that this is a serious problem and that it is a women’s problem as well.

I hope some of the practical steps dealing with compulsions as you have stated are helpful
I wish you well in your struggle.

Lisa

Well if that is not what you believe then please clarify what you do believe. This is a thread about the sexual issues women stumble on. What have you to say about that? It totally fly’s in the face of your biological arguments. After all your posts in the other thread about men just wanting eye candy what positive things do you have to say? Maybe that would help jamie86 to think of her husband in a different way than society expects which may help her have eyes only for him. If you paint a picture all in 1 color how can you get upset when someone calls that color what it is?

 

[silentfactor80]

To really get to the root of the issue, I think the stereotype that women are more into erotic writing versus images should be disabused as well. It may well be that the majority of people who read things like 50 Shades are women, but that doesn’t mean that’s the only kind of pornography that women get into.

Don’t quote me on this, but I believe that statistics have shown that about 30% of those who watch pornographic materials like videos and photos are women. And it’s not just spouses/girlfriends who are doing it to make their men happy.

I think it’s quite true that pornography is more of a male problem than it is a female problem, but there’s a pretty strong minority of women out there who deal with this issue. Men and women are wired differently when it comes to sex, but we’re still wired to desire sex. A lot. That can manifest itself in all kinds of ways across both genders and it’s an easy avenue for Satan to weasel his way into our lives.

The way I see it, sexuality is what makes us most “like God” in that it gives love and gives life. We mortal men and women are of course going to abuse the heck out of it and obviously Satan wants to encourage that! What better way to get a swipe in at God to have His people pervert a gift that allows us to be co-creators with Him and provides for a sort of Earthly immortality by creating progeny.

Since both men and women are provided with this gift, it only makes sense that Satan would attack both sexes. His methods for deception may be different for each individual and there may be some general trends based on how men and women are wired, but sexual addiction is not just a problem for one sex or the other.

If you believe this poll then it is 76%. They surveyed 4200 women.

 

[JackieMom]

If you believe this poll then it is 76%. They surveyed 4200 women.

“The **English Netmums website survey **found that despite three quarters of women having less sex — due to the demands of longer working hours — they are much more adventurous, The Sun reported.”

LOL.

 

[silentfactor80]

“The **English Netmums website survey **found that despite three quarters of women having less sex — due to the demands of longer working hours — they are much more adventurous, The Sun reported.”

LOL.

This article says 66%. Not 76% percent but in the ball park which is to say more than half.

 

[Kensho]

To really get to the root of the issue, I think the stereotype that women are more into erotic writing versus images should be disabused as well. It may well be that the majority of people who read things like 50 Shades are women, but that doesn’t mean that’s the only kind of pornography that women get into.

Don’t quote me on this, but I believe that statistics have shown that about 30% of those who watch pornographic materials like videos and photos are women. And it’s not just spouses/girlfriends who are doing it to make their men happy.

I think it’s quite true that pornography is more of a male problem than it is a female problem, but there’s a pretty strong minority of women out there who deal with this issue. Men and women are wired differently when it comes to sex, but we’re still wired to desire sex. A lot. That can manifest itself in all kinds of ways across both genders and it’s an easy avenue for Satan to weasel his way into our lives.

The way I see it, sexuality is what makes us most “like God” in that it gives love and gives life. We mortal men and women are of course going to abuse the heck out of it and obviously Satan wants to encourage that! What better way to get a swipe in at God to have His people pervert a gift that allows us to be co-creators with Him and provides for a sort of Earthly immortality by creating progeny.

Since both men and women are provided with this gift, it only makes sense that Satan would attack both sexes. His methods for deception may be different for each individual and there may be some general trends based on how men and women are wired, but sexual addiction is not just a problem for one sex or the other.

I agree with this. Also, most porn is marketed to men and doesn’t appeal to women. The percentage of women viewing porn has probably gone up since the female-oriented stuff started being introduced about 20 years ago. However, I do think women tend to be more verbal and will probably always find written erotica more appealing in general.

 

[JackieMom]

This article says 66%. Not 76% percent but in the ball park which is to say more than half.

What age range and population of females did they sample? Was it random (randomly selected phone survey) or self-reported (i.e. online quiz)?

 

[LisaA]

Well if that is not what you believe then please clarify what you do believe. This is a thread about the sexual issues women stumble on. What have you to say about that? It totally fly’s in the face of your biological arguments. After all your posts in the other thread about men just wanting eye candy what positive things do you have to say? Maybe that would help jamie86 to think of her husband in a different way than society expects which may help her have eyes only for him. If you paint a picture all in 1 color how can you get upset when someone calls that color what it is?

Would you please get a grip? I think you have mistaken someone else’s posts for mine. None of what you have attributed to me is even remotely what was said.

Please calm down.
Lisa