Women and "Those Images"

[The_Bucket]

I agree with this. Also, most porn is marketed to men and doesn’t appeal to women. The percentage of women viewing porn has probably gone up since the female-oriented stuff started being introduced about 20 years ago. However, I do think women tend to be more verbal and will probably always find written erotica more appealing in general.

I don’t know that it’s merely the fact that it’s verbal. I think it’s more because the written word allows one to construct an alternate reality better than the visual. When it comes to images, what’s there is there. It’s up to you to try and alter the reality being presented to you.

Now as a visual type and a man, I sadly had no problem basically swapping myself into those scenarios and getting “lost” in that fantasy construct. Perhaps many women simply do not want to do that or can’t do that or are not turned on by the visual as much and thus do not have the drive to make those mental leaps.

That’s just my conjecture on the subject and obviously it’s not a one-size-fits-all situation. There’s more than a couple of guys in my S-group who started out pretty much exclusively with “racy books.” And there have been women who watched a lot of pornographic movies. As has been repeatedly said, there may be gender trends but they’re not exclusive.

 

[LisaA]

I agree with this. Also, most porn is marketed to men and doesn’t appeal to women. The percentage of women viewing porn has probably gone up since the female-oriented stuff started being introduced about 20 years ago. However, I do think women tend to be more verbal and will probably always find written erotica more appealing in general.

To take from your point, I think women are relationship oriented and the porn directed at males is more action oriented, without a story line or evidence of romance or relationship. Male porn is all about “the money shot” and I suspect not nearly as appealing to women as to men. While I can’t speak from experience, the porn directed toward women is probably of a different focus.

I heard that 50 Shades of Grey has catipulted Random House far above its previous financial results. As you mentioned, it’s written erotica/porn. Obviously a step above the old bodice rippers that used to be the major source of female oriented erotica.

Lisa

 

[silentfactor80]

What age range and population of females did they sample? Was it random (randomly selected phone survey) or self-reported (i.e. online quiz)?

Here is a better article that the previous one links to. It doesn’t say how the survey was conducted but usually when it is an online survey they say so. This article says that Hustler video reports 56% of its video customers are women. VERY interesting! I am pretty sure a company reporting is accurate since their business depends on it.

 

[The_Bucket]

I am pretty sure a company reporting is accurate since their business depends on it.

Oh yes, I’m sure Hustler, Playboy, etc. have no incentive to try and make it look like their products appeal to women and not degrade them. None at all.

 

[silentfactor80]

Would you please get a grip? I think you have mistaken someone else’s posts for mine. None of what you have attributed to me is even remotely what was said.

Please calm down.
Lisa

And we’re still being evasive I see…

 

[silentfactor80]

Oh yes, I’m sure Hustler, Playboy, etc. have no incentive to try and make it look like their products appeal to women and not degrade them. None at all.

A company can’t falsify sales reports because income gets reported to the government and is public knowledge. They would get called out if they did. Now you are calling conspiracy theories? Why is it so hard for people to believe women have a weakness when it comes to sex too? LOL!

 

[The_Bucket]

A company can’t falsify sales reports because income gets reported to the government and is public knowledge. They would get called out if they did. Now you are calling conspiracy theories? Why is it so hard for people to believe women have a weakness when it comes to sex too? LOL!

My goodness you are quite the troll bud. Still upset that you can’t get your fiancee to bend to your will absolutely? Guh, stuff like this is why I end up with temporary infractions for uncharitable posts.

At any rate, you’re not addressing the substance of any of my posts but that’s to be expected. I’m pretty sure I’ve noted that there are a number of women in the CAF Impurity Addiction Support Group and in my in-person group as well. I’m merely noting that women are generally, but not always, drawn to things that provide more of a blank slate for fantasy as opposed to visual pornography that’s aimed at a male audience.

Hustler releasing something saying “oh yeah 56% of our customers are women” is not the same as an SEC filing. The truth of the matter is that companies are in no way required to keep track of the sex of people who purchase their products and/or use their services. There’s plenty of ways to put out a figure like that and support it with shaky and incomplete data. As a for instance, they can say they took a survey. But surveys of people who buy certain products are necessarily self-selecting. They’re about as accurate as online polls and have no basis for statistical significance. Or they could say that they “assume” a certain percentage of buyers are married or in relationships and use other surveys to say that X% of married men watch pornography with their significant others. And now they can inflate the figure by arguing that say, 10% of their customers are women, 45% are couples and the remainder are single men. Therefore 55% of their customers are women. The figures don’t add up of course, but it’s certainly a way data can be manipulated to serve a certain end.

There’s absolutely no way in hell that 56% of Hustler’s customers are women. Hustler was designed with the expressed purpose of being more hardcore than Playboy. It’s geared squarely at men.

In conclusion, you don’t read what people are saying, you’re rude in your responses and you’re coming from a place where you’re clearly certain-part-of-your-anatomy-hurt over the culture and Obama and women not obeying your every word and you’re conflating all kinds of issues to back up your worldview. Cut it out.

 

[silentfactor80]

My goodness you are quite the troll bud. Still upset that you can’t get your fiancee to bend to your will absolutely? Guh, stuff like this is why I end up with temporary infractions for uncharitable posts.

At any rate, you’re not addressing the substance of any of my posts but that’s to be expected. I’m pretty sure I’ve noted that there are a number of women in the CAF Impurity Addiction Support Group and in my in-person group as well. I’m merely noting that women are generally, but not always, drawn to things that provide more of a blank slate for fantasy as opposed to visual pornography that’s aimed at a male audience.

Hustler releasing something saying “oh yeah 56% of our customers are women” is not the same as an SEC filing. The truth of the matter is that companies are in no way required to keep track of the sex of people who purchase their products and/or use their services. There’s plenty of ways to put out a figure like that and support it with shaky and incomplete data. As a for instance, they can say they took a survey. But surveys of people who buy certain products are necessarily self-selecting. They’re about as accurate as online polls and have no basis for statistical significance. Or they could say that they “assume” a certain percentage of buyers are married or in relationships and use other surveys to say that X% of married men watch pornography with their significant others. And now they can inflate the figure by arguing that say, 10% of their customers are women, 45% are couples and the remainder are single men. Therefore 55% of their customers are women. The figures don’t add up of course, but it’s certainly a way data can be manipulated to serve a certain end.

There’s absolutely no way in hell that 56% of Hustler’s customers are women. Hustler was designed with the expressed purpose of being more hardcore than Playboy. It’s geared squarely at men.

In conclusion, you don’t read what people are saying, you’re rude in your responses and you’re coming from a place where you’re clearly certain-part-of-your-anatomy-hurt over the culture and Obama and women not obeying your every word and you’re conflating all kinds of issues to back up your worldview. Cut it out.

1. I don’t have a fiancee. What does that have to do with anything?
2. If you read that article their vice president is Theresa Flynnt (a woman). I’m pretty sure women know what other want and that is probably why she is the VP!
3. I understand what you are saying about statistics but statistics can also be self-fulfilling if you blindly buy into them. Maybe most guys DON’T look at porno and all the surveys are wrong. I could make the same claim as you but unless you got hard data to backup your claims your point is nothing more than hot air. Of coarse any time a statistic challenges a long held stereotype of coarse we won’t believe it. Then poor people like jamie86 feel they are along or abnormal.
4. First off, my problem was with Obamacare! It is discriminatory period! I thought all good Catholic souls are against discrimination. Guess not. True equality would mean finding a way to equal out the life expectancy which was equal in 60’s and 70’s.

Lastly, I don’t care if women do what I say. What I do care though is that men’s lives be respected as much as women’s. Women are not worth more than men but lots of women and I see some men think otherwise. I’m happy to live in peace and quiet without being ripped apart for being a guy by anyone!

Here is some science to challenge your stereotypes:
articles.cnn.com/2009-07-24/living/o.women.watching.porn_1_arousal-candida-royalle-explicit-sexual-imagery?_s=PM:LIVING

 

[The_Bucket]

1. I don’t have a fiancee. What does that have to do with anything?

Should have put the past tense in there, my mistake.

1. If you read that article their vice president is Theresa Flynnt (a woman). I’m pretty sure women know what other want and that is probably why she is the VP!

She’s vice president because she’s their founder’s daughter.

True equality would mean finding a way to equal out the life expectancy which was equal in 60’s and 70’s.

Not possible. Female life expectancy has risen dramatically because women stopped dying in childbirth. If you’ll notice, life expectancy in general has soared in the last century not because old people are living longer, but because fewer people are dying younger. John Adams lived to 90. Thomas Jefferson was 83. We’re not dying later because of modern medicine giving us more years on the back end. Life expectancy is rising because we’re not dying as infants or children and women in their early 20s are not dying in childbirth.

I should also note that you’re dead wrong on the statistics. In fact, the 1960s and 1970s brought with it some of the widest disparities in life expectancy of all time! In 1975, the average American woman lived to be 76.6 and the average man died at 68.8. Today it’s around 81 for women and 76 for men. The gap is narrowing, albeit slightly.

If you want parity, let’s go back to the 1920s when men died at 53.6 and women died just one year later. If you had children you would know that infant and young boys tend to be more sickly than infant and young girls. I’ve seen it in my own life. My son was given a coin-flip chance to survive because he was born extremely early. Had he been a girl, his odds would have been better by a statistically significant margin. Thanks be to God he survived and is a healthy little guy today.

But it’s genetics. Boys are more vulnerable to disease most likely to weed out the weak. Women are more of a scarce resource and so we have evolved in a way where, sans modern medicine, little girls tend to survive better than little boys.

Again, please continue to ignore what I’m writing about this not being an uncommon issue for women and encouraging the OP to join the impurity addiction support group where she will find other women also engaging in this struggle. It certainly helps your case.

 

[silentfactor80]

Should have put the past tense in there, my mistake.

She’s vice president because she’s their founder’s daughter.

Not possible. Female life expectancy has risen dramatically because women stopped dying in childbirth. If you’ll notice, life expectancy in general has soared in the last century not because old people are living longer, but because fewer people are dying younger. John Adams lived to 90. Thomas Jefferson was 83. We’re not dying later because of modern medicine giving us more years on the back end. Life expectancy is rising because we’re not dying as infants or children and women in their early 20s are not dying in childbirth.

I should also note that you’re dead wrong on the statistics. In fact, the 1960s and 1970s brought with it some of the widest disparities in life expectancy of all time! In 1975, the average American woman lived to be 76.6 and the average man died at 68.8. Today it’s around 81 for women and 76 for men. The gap is narrowing, albeit slightly.

If you want parity, let’s go back to the 1920s when men died at 53.6 and women died just one year later. If you had children you would know that infant and young boys tend to be more sickly than infant and young girls. I’ve seen it in my own life. My son was given a coin-flip chance to survive because he was born extremely early. Had he been a girl, his odds would have been better by a statistically significant margin. Thanks be to God he survived and is a healthy little guy today.

But it’s genetics. Boys are more vulnerable to disease most likely to weed out the weak. Women are more of a scarce resource and so we have evolved in a way where, sans modern medicine, little girls tend to survive better than little boys.

Again, please continue to ignore what I’m writing about this not being an uncommon issue for women and encouraging the OP to join the impurity addiction support group where she will find other women also engaging in this struggle. It certainly helps your case.

Bold 1:
So you went back to my very post here? WOW…that’s borderline stalkerish. Needless to say, she did not agree with the church. You can’t fault a guy for wanting to live a Godly life. Many cowardly guys would choose the woman over God. I was not about to be an instrument in her self-degradation.

Bold 2: It doesn’t matter what her connection to the owner is. She’s a woman, period. She thinks like one, she acts like one, she has all the equipment of one. She brings the female perspective to the company. Read the link I posted most recently. They clearly discuss the nature versus nurture thing.

Bold 3: Yes, and the boys that do survive overcome the odds. When life expectancy is calculated miscarriages are not included. That rings the question though if boys are so much more vulnerable why aren’t we funding more science to alleviate those problems? Why does Obamacare give us 7 offices for women’s health and not a single one for men when we clearly have a disadvantage??? You call that justice?

Your assertion that women are more scarce is nonsense. The population is roughly 50/50. It is called statistical distribution. The only places where women are scarce like China is because they don’t like baby girls. If nature was left to its thing the population would be equal.

@jamie86: I encourage you to join all the groups you have to in order to shake this problem. Don’t let anyone tell you that what you are going through is not something that should bother you. Your pain is real and there are real solutions to it.

 

[jamie86]

@SF80: Thanks for posting those sources. Maybe it is my calling to help women with these issues. It is sad that some think its perfectly ok. You have given me quite a bit to think about. Although I think some of what you wrote is off the wall I do admire you being a sole voice of advocacy without backing down. I think we could all use that kind of spirit when it comes to taking the world on. When Jesus was crucified only God stood with him. Most of his mortal friends hid. We should trust in Him when he says “be not afraid.”

@The Bucket: Thanks for posting the support group! I will look into it. Beggars Daughter has had a big impact on me already. Someone PM’d me a link earlier.

@LisaA: I understand a lot of what your saying but I do agree with SF80 that culture plays a bigger role than brain wiring and brain wiring is often misinterpreted by the media / general public. I have a friend in grad school for psychology. She said a lot of what people once thought was “hard wired” turned out to be the result of environmental conditioning. The brain is very neuroplastic. That is why we get addicted to things like pornography. No one is born with that.

 

[jamie86]

…
Bold 3: Yes, and the boys that do survive overcome the odds. When life expectancy is calculated miscarriages are not included. That rings the question though if boys are so much more vulnerable why aren’t we funding more science to alleviate those problems? Why does Obamacare give us 7 offices for women’s health and not a single one for men when we clearly have a disadvantage??? You call that justice?

@jamie86: I encourage you to join all the groups you have to in order to shake this problem. Don’t let anyone tell you that what you are going through is not something that should bother you. Your pain is real and there are real solutions to it.

I call that taking advantage of weak. Certainly not a Catholic principle and it is an issue that should be talked about. I care about the men in my life and I don’t want to loose them if they could be helped. And thank you for the encouragement. It means a lot!

 

[LisaA]

@LisaA: I understand a lot of what your saying but I do agree with SF80 that culture plays a bigger role than brain wiring and brain wiring is often misinterpreted by the media / general public. I have a friend in grad school for psychology. She said a lot of what people once thought was “hard wired” turned out to be the result of environmental conditioning. The brain is very neuroplastic. That is why we get addicted to things like pornography. No one is born with that.

Wow someone must be posting in my name NEVER have I said addictions are something you are born with or genetic or unchangeable. In fact I’ve said the exact opposite particularly when addressing the issues of homosexuality. I have said repeatedly that EXPOSURE to certain images retrains your brain and becomes entrenched. So some people cannot become sexually aroused without those images or fetishes or rituals. As I said the brain is a wonderful slave but a terrible master.

My suggestions were much like Kensho and I think JackieMom in that avoiding “the occasion of sin” by getting the images, even the computer out of your house and substituting some other pleasurable activity when the urge strikes. I have had certain compulsive behaviors to fight and this is what my spiritual director told me.

At any rate I am truly frustrated at being misquoted, misunderstood and maligned, particularly by Silent so I’ll say good bye and best of outcomes for you and your husband

Lisa

 

[The_Bucket]

Lord Almighty more with Obamacare. Obamacare has absolutely nothing to do with this situation and nothing to do with “injustice against males.” It has everything to do with a) expansion of government for the sake of expansion of government and b) reproductive medicine. Those women’s health offices are all about reproductive medicine. They should be opposed because government involvement in reproductive medicine has tended to support abortion. Not because they are “injustice to men.”

Your assertion that women are more scarce is nonsense. The population is roughly 50/50. It is called statistical distribution. The only places where women are scarce like China is because they don’t like baby girls. If nature was left to its thing the population would be equal.

Women are a scarce asset because they are more necessary to reproduction than men. Nature evolved in a way to give women a leg up on survival because, in the worst case scenarios, we need far more women to propagate the species than we need men. Women only get one shot at a time for reproduction. You could have one man and ten different women and still get a strong genetic mix if they were to reproduce. If it were one woman and ten different men, we’d all be totally screwed. That’s how nature performed this balancing act.

As for the final comment, which I will not repost, no one, at least not here, has said that what the OP is dealing with is something to be swept under the rug. We’ve all suggested that she seek help and I think there are several posters on CAF who would actually benefit from her asking for their assistance. I won’t republish their handles here, but I will say that it is not hard to find at least a few women in the CAF group. If they’re anything like the men in the group, they will be very receptive to listening and offering suggestions. Chances are they’ll benefit too; I’ve been strongest in my recovery when I’ve had it thrust upon me to help someone else.

 

[sweetpetunia]

My goodness you are quite the troll bud. Still upset that you can’t get your fiancee to bend to your will absolutely? Guh, stuff like this is why I end up with temporary infractions for uncharitable posts.

Bucket, you’re out of line here. We could just as easily bring up things about your past and your biases, but I think the point of these forums is to help each other learn and get to heaven, no? Let’s act like Catholics, or at least adults, please. Better your arguments rather than resorting to below the belt comments. SF80 has been accused of several things he hasn’t done at all, and I think he’s holding his cool pretty well considering

 

[Kensho]

Bucket, you’re out of line here. We could just as easily bring up things about your past and your biases, but I think the point of these forums is to help each other learn and get to heaven, no? Let’s act like Catholics, or at least adults, please. Better your arguments rather than resorting to below the belt comments. SF80 has been accused of several things he hasn’t done at all, and I think he’s holding his cool pretty well considering

I agree with you. Things get heated in discussions like this, and maybe when it’s on the Internet we forget that there are real people with hearts and their own experiences on the other end of these posts. I respect everyone who has contributed to this thread, have received valuable information from all, and don’t think anyone here deserves to be called names or used as an obstacle to continuing real, productive conversation.

 

[silentfactor80]

"sweetpetunia:

Bucket, you’re out of line here. We could just as easily bring up things about your past and your biases, but I think the point of these forums is to help each other learn and get to heaven, no? Let’s act like Catholics, or at least adults, please. Better your arguments rather than resorting to below the belt comments. SF80 has been accused of several things he hasn’t done at all, and I think he’s holding his cool pretty well considering

Thank you! Nice to see a friendly person around here.

Lord Almighty more with Obamacare. Obamacare has absolutely nothing to do with this situation and nothing to do with “injustice against males.” It has everything to do with a) expansion of government for the sake of expansion of government and b) reproductive medicine. Those women’s health offices are all about reproductive medicine. They should be opposed because government involvement in reproductive medicine has tended to support abortion. Not because they are “injustice to men.”

Women are a scarce asset because they are more necessary to reproduction than men. Nature evolved in a way to give women a leg up on survival because, in the worst case scenarios, we need far more women to propagate the species than we need men. Women only get one shot at a time for reproduction. You could have one man and ten different women and still get a strong genetic mix if they were to reproduce. If it were one woman and ten different men, we’d all be totally screwed. That’s how nature performed this balancing act.

As for the final comment, which I will not repost, no one, at least not here, has said that what the OP is dealing with is something to be swept under the rug. We’ve all suggested that she seek help and I think there are several posters on CAF who would actually benefit from her asking for their assistance. I won’t republish their handles here, but I will say that it is not hard to find at least a few women in the CAF group. If they’re anything like the men in the group, they will be very receptive to listening and offering suggestions. Chances are they’ll benefit too; I’ve been strongest in my recovery when I’ve had it thrust upon me to help someone else.

Women are not more essential to reproduction. You would have a very poor genetic mix if it was 1 man and 10 women. They would have half siblings with a higher chance of genetic deformity. Who are the kids going to reproduce with then? Yeah, didn’t think that through. That is why incest is so bad! There is a reason royal families died out. Ever hear of inbreeding? Putting all your eggs in one basket (literally) is not good when it comes to reproduction. God is about diversity. Look at life on Earth and how diverse it is. If we all stayed in 1 little area and didn’t breed all human beings we would be predisposed to MANY problems.

The offices in Obamacare are NOT all for fertility. Where did you get that information from? Also, it mandates tubal ligations be covered but not vasectomies. You don’t call that discrimination?

 

[silentfactor80]

Wow someone must be posting in my name NEVER have I said addictions are something you are born with or genetic or unchangeable. In fact I’ve said the exact opposite particularly when addressing the issues of homosexuality. I have said repeatedly that EXPOSURE to certain images retrains your brain and becomes entrenched. So some people cannot become sexually aroused without those images or fetishes or rituals. As I said the brain is a wonderful slave but a terrible master.

My suggestions were much like Kensho and I think JackieMom in that avoiding “the occasion of sin” by getting the images, even the computer out of your house and substituting some other pleasurable activity when the urge strikes. I have had certain compulsive behaviors to fight and this is what my spiritual director told me.

At any rate I am truly frustrated at being misquoted, misunderstood and maligned, particularly by Silent so I’ll say good bye and best of outcomes for you and your husband

Lisa

I don’t think she meant you said we were born with addictions. It looks like she added that to explain our biological impulses can be tamed by how we are nurtuted. I think she meant your post in the other forum where you claimed men aren’t interested in emotional bonding, just having sex. I can tell you as a guy I find that very offensive. Some guys may be like that and so are some women but to make such a statement cuts out the higher human person.

 

[jamie86]

Thank you! Nice to see a friendly person around here.

Women are not more essential to reproduction. You would have a very poor genetic mix if it was 1 man and 10 women. They would have half siblings with a higher chance of genetic deformity. Who are the kids going to reproduce with then? Yeah, didn’t think that through. That is why incest is so bad! There is a reason royal families died out. Ever hear of inbreeding? Putting all your eggs in one basket (literally) is not good when it comes to reproduction. God is about diversity. Look at life on Earth and how diverse it is. If we all stayed in 1 little area and didn’t breed all human beings we would be predisposed to MANY problems.

The offices in Obamacare are NOT all for fertility. Where did you get that information from? Also, it mandates tubal ligations be covered but not vasectomies. You don’t call that discrimination?

And you can add the fact that as a woman there is no way I would share a man with another woman!!! EVER! Family orgy, I don’t think so!! I don’t care if there was only 1 man left on this planet if he had a wife he isn’t getting near me!

Also, how is such a guy going to provide for all those kids? Unless he is super rich polygamy doesn’t work. Also, fathering a child is about more than just seed. Our society knows all to well the consequences of an absentee father. Do you really think a 1 man 10 wives and 30 kids family is going to get a lot of daddy time? They will all be at a disadvantage. Sounds great on paper but in practice there is a reason polygamy doesn’t occur except in extreme parts of the world but we all know what things are like in those regions (i.e. Middle East).

In any case, I am feeling better now that I got this out. It is nice to see people putting thought into helping another. That alone is a beautiful thing! Encouraging too!