Women as lectors

[4HisChurch]

I have searched in vain for this. Where is being reported? Not even the ultra-left National Catholic Reporter has reported this. And they would be overjoyed about this.

Please provide a link to a REPUTABLE news agency that is reporting this. Gossip mongering blogs do not count as reputable news agencies. I have yet to hear any blog that accurately reports the news.

Try this. CNS News

 

[Lizziebel]

Thank you so much, Aramis, for taking the time and effort to explain all that you have about women becoming deconesses, Lectors, and Acolytes. I’m hoping that it won’t be so controversial. It really shouldn’t be. After all, the line is drawn at the priesthood, and this will not be permitted. So I’m in agreement with you that there’s no issue with women serving in any other way.

 

[Phemie]

I have searched in vain for this. Where is being reported? Not even the ultra-left National Catholic Reporter has reported this. And they would be overjoyed about this.

Please provide a link to a REPUTABLE news agency that is reporting this. Gossip mongering blogs do not count as reputable news agencies. I have yet to hear any blog that accurately reports the news.

Here, from the Vatican’s own website is the Italian version of Proposition 17. It hasn’t been translated into any other language that I can see.

Proposizione 17

Ministero della Parola e donne

I Padri sinodali riconoscono e incoraggiano il servizio dei laici nella trasmissione della fede. Le donne, in particolare, hanno su questo punto un ruolo indispensabile soprattutto nella famiglia e nella catechesi. Infatti, esse sanno suscitare l’ascolto della Parola, la relazione personale con Dio e comunicare il senso del perdono e della condivisione evangelica.
Si auspica che il ministero del lettorato sia aperto anche alle donne, in modo che nella comunità cristiana sia riconosciuto il loro ruolo di annunciatrici della Parola.

 

[benedictgal]

Here, from the Vatican’s own website is the Italian version of Proposition 17. It hasn’t been translated into any other language that I can see.

From my limited knowledge of Italian, I can ascertain that this passage recognizes the role that women have played in the course of several years. Such roles have included exercising some sort of liturgical ministry (proclamation of the readings) and serving as CCD instructors (handing down the faith to the children).

It appears to me that this section recommends that the role of lector be reconstituted so as to include women, at least as far as the proclamation of the readings is concerned. This would not raise women to the rank of the Minor Orders. What I am guessing is that this reconstitution would recognize their role and make adjustments.

Now, bear in mind that these are simply recommendations. The Holy Father is free to amend or reject any of these proposals when he issues his Apostolic Exhortations. We also need to see the Linemata (working instrument) to see if this particular notion appeared in the document.

When the Holy Father wrote his Apostolic Exhortations, Sacramentum Caritas, he pretty much worked off the Lineamata, as there are many parallels between that document and his.

 

[Cristiano]

Here, from the Vatican’s own website is the Italian version of Proposition 17. It hasn’t been translated into any other language that I can see.

That it is interesting because proposition 17 precedes proposition 18 (not a big surprise here ).
Proposition 18 is about having communities (that cannot have Sunday Mass) to establish a lay service for the celebration of the Word of God. The description/goal of the service appears different from the Communion service and that could be the reason why they are pushing proposition 17. Propositions 21 and 22 seem to add even more, thus explaining the wish to have women as lectors.

 

[Aramis]

The real irony is that the Byzantine Churches have such a liturgy, often referred to as a “Reader’s Typica”, which is a non-eucharistic service, and a more extensive version, the “Deacon’s Typica” for when a deacon is available to preside and distribute communion.

While an ordained/instituted lector or subdeacon (the Eastern Churches often still refer to it as ordination…) is the normal officiant for a reader’s typica, laypersons of either gender, usually lay-cantors, can officiate/lead the reader’s typica.

One thing to remember: any such changes need to be weighed against the consequences upon the whole Catholic Church, not just the Roman Church.

 

[Phemie]

The real irony is that the Byzantine Churches have such a liturgy, often referred to as a “Reader’s Typica”, which is a non-eucharistic service, and a more extensive version, the “Deacon’s Typica” for when a deacon is available to preside and distribute communion.

While an ordained/instituted lector or subdeacon (the Eastern Churches often still refer to it as ordination…) is the normal officiant for a reader’s typica, laypersons of either gender, usually lay-cantors, can officiate/lead the reader’s typica.

One thing to remember: any such changes need to be weighed against the consequences upon the whole Catholic Church, not just the Roman Church.

We, in Canada, have such a rite, included in the ritual book “Sunday Celebration of the Word and Hours”. It may be modified slightly to include Communion, but the Liturgy of the Word stands on its own as a complete celebration.

 

[John_Lilburne]

Zenit have a translation of Proposition 17. Combining it with the heading from John Thavis:

Proposition 17

The Ministry of the Word and Women

"The synod fathers recognize and encourage the service of laypeople in the transmission of the faith. Women, in particular, have in this regard an indispensable role, above all in the family and in catechesis. In fact, women know how to stir up the listening to the Word and the personal relationship with God, and to communicate the meaning of forgiveness and the Gospel capacity to share.

It is suggested that the ministry of lector be opened also to women, so that in the Christian communities, their role as announcers of the Word is recognized."

The Zenit article is at zenit.org/article-24084?l=english and provides more information about what instituted lectors are.

 

[benedictgal]

Zenit have a translation of Proposition 17. Combining it with the heading from John Thavis:

Proposition 17

The Ministry of the Word and Women

"The synod fathers recognize and encourage the service of laypeople in the transmission of the faith. Women, in particular, have in this regard an indispensable role, above all in the family and in catechesis. In fact, women know how to stir up the listening to the Word and the personal relationship with God, and to communicate the meaning of forgiveness and the Gospel capacity to share.

It is suggested that the ministry of lector be opened also to women, so that in the Christian communities, their role as announcers of the Word is recognized."

The Zenit article is at zenit.org/article-24084?l=english and provides more information about what instituted lectors are.

So, my rudimentary and limited Italian isn’t so bad after all, as I think I got the gist of it in the unofficial translation that I came up with in my earlier post.

Here is what Zenit clarified, as it appeared in my inbox this evening:

The proposition was approved, meaning at least two-thirds of the assembly voted in favor of it.

Canon 230 of the Code of Canon Law states that only qualified men may be “installed on a stable basis in the ministries of lector and acolyte.” The canon adds that “laypersons can fulfill the function of lector during liturgical actions by temporary deputation,” which is why women currently read at Masses all over the world.

The ministries of acolyte and lector are not ordained ministries, unlike the deaconate, the priesthood and the episcopacy.

In “Ministeria Quaedam” of 1972, Paul VI reformed what were known as “minor orders,” conserving only the ministries of lector and acolyte. Normally seminarians are officially instituted into these ministries in the process leading to their ordination.

I currently read at Mass in my parish. The term “lector” is loosely applied to us, as I think is the case in most parishes around the country. I think that what the Synod Fathers propose to do is to merely clarify things.

 

[Phemie]

I currently read at Mass in my parish. The term “lector” is loosely applied to us, as I think is the case in most parishes around the country. I think that what the Synod Fathers propose to do is to merely clarify things.

I’m not sure what you mean by ‘clarify things’. They want the instituted ministry open to women. That’s more than a clarification, that’s a change in Canon Law.

I wonder how many languages other than English have more than one word for the function. In French there’s only one term, lecteur. It applies equally to those who read the scriptures in Church or the newspaper at home.

 

[benedictgal]

I’m not sure what you mean by ‘clarify things’. They want the instituted ministry open to women. That’s more than a clarification, that’s a change in Canon Law.

I wonder how many languages other than English have more than one word for the function. In French there’s only one term, lecteur. It applies equally to those who read the scriptures in Church or the newspaper at home.

What I mean by clarify is that it will help clear up things as far as the terminology is concerned. Lector refers to those involved in the instituted ministry. That is why I refer to myself as a reader since there is the issue of the instituted ministry.

In Spanish, the term used is also “lector”.

You are probably right that a recommendation of this magnitude would probably entail a change in Canon Law. It seems to me that the Holy Father might not be so inclined to change Canon Law for this.

Now, as I said in my initial response, the ultimate authority will lie with the Holy Father. He may adapt this proposition or choose not to run wiith it.

 

[Phemie]

What I mean by clarify is that it will help clear up things as far as the terminology is concerned. Lector refers to those involved in the instituted ministry. That is why I refer to myself as a reader since there is the issue of the instituted ministry.

In Spanish, the term used is also “lector”.

You are probably right that a recommendation of this magnitude would probably entail a change in Canon Law. It seems to me that the Holy Father might not be so inclined to change Canon Law for this.

Now, as I said in my initial response, the ultimate authority will lie with the Holy Father. He may adapt this proposition or choose not to run wiith it.

It would definitely involve a change in Canon 230:

Can. 230 §1. Lay men who possess the age and qualifications established by decree of the conference of bishops can be admitted on a stable basis through the prescribed liturgical rite to the ministries of lector and acolyte.

 

[benedictgal]

It would definitely involve a change in Canon 230:

Can. 230 §1. Lay men who possess the age and qualifications established by decree of the conference of bishops can be admitted on a stable basis through the prescribed liturgical rite to the ministries of lector and acolyte.

I went back to read through the Lineamata for the Synod on the Word of God and this is what I found:

1. Biblical and liturgical renewal requires servants of the Word of God, primarily in the liturgy and then in other forms of communicating the Bible. As for service in the liturgy, the ministry of the Word of God is realized in proclaiming the readings and, in a special way, in the homily. The proclamation of the Word in the liturgy is an office proper to the instituted ministry of lector. In his absence, a qualified lay man or woman can proclaim the readings

Could this have been the springboard from which this particular proposition jumped?

I am only guessing that this would have been the likely place.

 

[Mea_Culpa]

It might be good if there is training they have to go through to become a lector. At my parish, it’s mostly women who do the reading, but they are TERRIBLE. Not because they’re women, but because there don’t seem to be any requirements for being a reader. Some have very thick accents, some can’t pronounce any of the names (they don’t even know how to pronounce papyrus) - then they’ll decide it’s a good idea to have teenagers do the reading, but apparently preparation isn’t part of the process.

So, if there is an actual process they have to go through to become instituted lectors, I’m for it, if it also involves telling those not suited to this ministry that they shouldn’t do it.

 

[Phemie]

It might be good if there is training they have to go through to become a lector. At my parish, it’s mostly women who do the reading, but they are TERRIBLE. Not because they’re women, but because there don’t seem to be any requirements for being a reader. Some have very thick accents, some can’t pronounce any of the names (they don’t even know how to pronounce papyrus) - then they’ll decide it’s a good idea to have teenagers do the reading, but apparently preparation isn’t part of the process.

So, if there is an actual process they have to go through to become instituted lectors, I’m for it, if it also involves telling those not suited to this ministry that they shouldn’t do it.

It used to drive me crazy when we had people who couldn’t be hear/understood as readers. The attitude was that since they were volunteers we couldn’t offend them and refuse or criticize (even constructively) their service. I always used to reply “Meals on Wheels” doesn’t accept unlicensed drivers because they aren’t qualified, why can’t we just reject those readers who aren’t qualified or at least work with them toward qualification?

 

[Just_Lurking]

Right now, bishops who want to make the best use of the gifts of all the people of God are forced to choose between using instituted lectors (and thereby losing the abilities of half of the laity) or using temporarily deputed readers (and thereby losing the benefits of the additional training associated with formal institution to the ministry). If the requested change goes through, then the bishops will be able to have their cake and eat it too.

 

[LMP]

I read this article just tonight americancatholic.org/news/newsreport.aspx?id=185

I came over here to see if it was being talked about. Sure was.

My problem with this prop is that it will probably take center stage
instead of the good fruit that was budded during the synod.

Hey it is a traditional thing for men to do this and that at mass…fine. Women do other things. The opening up of ministries/offices/whatever for both genders is a subject for a different day. This whole issue is so-o-o-o secondary…make that eightyithary, it isn’t funny.

I personally hope that the Pope just cuts this whole thing short asap and then concentrates on the important things. We do not need this storm at this time.

 

[student_of_God]

So if women serve as lectors during Mass it is a liturgical abuse

example: just this past Sun. at my Parish a women read the second reading I’m confused

 

[RobbyS]

I have no problem with women as readers.

I am concerned about the confusion it would cause if they were instituted as lectors. I personally would like the institution of lector closed to anyone NOT on the track of Holy Orders.

It would solve the problem for those who are either pro or con on the issue.

Point of confusion is that the “lectors” at mass are really not LECTORS but readers. The difference between a teacher and a sub. We merely stand in for Lectors.

 

[student_of_God]

Makes sense