Women as Priests/ Call to action

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Holland said:
I would be very careful about doing what most of the folks are urging you to do. This comes under “know your parish, know your Diocese.” Where I live, CTA is not only tolerated but is embraced in some parishes. I did, just as some replying to your post have urged you to do. I got handed my head and I am barely acknowleded in the local church. The priest at this particular church is very open about being a member of CTA and the folks that run the church are very supportive. There are very few Sundays that don’t include some sort of encouragement for women to become priests or allowing priests to marry. Anyway, be very certain that you will be able to handle the fall-out from whatever you say to the Bishop. GOD BLESS!
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I think God appreciates your sacrifice you have made for His truth. It is difficult to face ridicule and hatred, but that is what Christ calls us to do for His sake. CTA, whether it is supported by one priest, one bishop, or one diocese, must not be tolerated. If we must all lose acknowledgement and respect in order to let the truth be known then so be it. These individuals, no matter what their position in the Church, must be called out, reported, and brought before the courts of the Church. This heresy must be directly combated. We may suffer because of our adherence to the truth, but in the end, that is true servanthood.
 
donmaximuso27 said:
I think God appreciates your sacrifice you have made for His truth. It is difficult to face ridicule and hatred, but that is what Christ calls us to do for His sake. CTA, whether it is supported by one priest, one bishop, or one diocese, must not be tolerated. If we must all lose acknowledgement and respect in order to let the truth be known then so be it. These individuals, no matter what their position in the Church, must be called out, reported, and brought before the courts of the Church. This heresy must be directly combated. We may suffer because of our adherence to the truth, but in the end, that is true servanthood.
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Agree. Human respect is not a sufficient reason for failing to tell the truth.
 
drforjc said:
Agree. Human respect is not a sufficient reason for failing to tell the truth.
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“Do not accept anything as the truth if it lacks love,
and do not accept anything as love which lacks truth!
One without the other becomes a destructive lie…”

John Paul II
at the Canonization of
St. Theresa Benedicta of the Cross, aka Edith Stein
Oct. 11, 1998
 
APanda911 said:
I am new to the forum, just happening upon it in a general search; however, I do have a question: I was recently at Mass and our pastor gave a homily on a subject I found most upsetting - women being ordained as preists. He urged us to take prayer cards on the end of each pew from a group known as “Call to Action,” and told us to support them in whichever way we felt comfortable doing so. When I looked this group up online, I was very distressed. I feel that this is not within our Catholic teaching at all. What should I do? Although I am a devout Catholic, I have never become involved in the politics of the Church. Any and all advice would be appreciated.
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I have read all the posts and many say you should let your bishop know what is going on. That is probably the right thing to do, but there is a reasonable chance that your bishop may already know what is going on, or not care if he finds out. Many bishops support CTA either overtly or covertly. Even if what you say to him is news to him, there is better than a fair chance he will not do anything with your information. In a local parish near me the pastor and a group of liberals invited CTA in to take up residence. They started a book club as a way to spread their poison. Many parishoners joined the club and refuted the heresies CTA encouraged and then got orthodox books on the reading list, so CTA gave up. There is a war going on inside that parish. 75 or so families (not one) reported the priest to the bishop with a long list of things the priest did or does, said or says, that are outside the bounds of Catholic teaching and practice. The bishop did nothing about any of it. In another local parish the pastor openly states that he does not believe Catholic dogma. He does this with impunity.

The point is that you should not count on help from your bishop. You may get some, but may not. If you really want to do something about the heretical priest you will need to find other people in the parish who are orthodox and plan on a long battle.

Another disturbing thought you have to face is that generally when a priest dissents from Church teaching it is generally not confined to one topic, like women’s ordination. It is usually a package deal. They usually are not supportive of the teachings on sexual morals and other things as well. There are a lot of priests who embrace the CTA agenda and they know one another and are a force acting within the Church to further the aims to undermine Church teaching and reshape it according to their vision.

My point is that you can not expect to have a friendly chat with the priest or send off a letter to the bishop and be done with it, or that will fix the problem. That will be round one.

It seems you have several alternatives. Say nothing. Say something to the bishop and look for another parish where the priest is more orthodox and you can worship in peace. Say something to the bishop and get involved in a battle to save your parish from heresy.
 
EasterJoy said:
"Do not accept anything as the truth if it lacks love,

and do not accept anything as love which lacks truth!
One without the other becomes a destructive lie…"

John Paul II
at the Canonization of
St. Theresa Benedicta of the Cross, aka Edith Stein

Oct. 11, 1998
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Right. You would in fact need to do it with love, but do it nonetheless.
 
One other thing. If your bishop approves of CTA, write off to the Sacred Congregation on the Faith in Rome…

When the bishop is bad, the whole faith suffers.
 
Well I really do not agree with having a woman priest and it will not happen anyway, the Pope has made it very clear that no woman is to be ordained as a priest, by anyone that is obligated to do so or they will be excommunicated.

Any if we had a woman priest what would we call her? not Father I am sure of that.

I have been reading things like this in the MSN News Headlines.

I will not change my mind on this subject women can be ministers of another denomination but there is not chance they will get in the Catholic Religion.

JMO:rolleyes:
 
I agree that if the bishop does nothing, you should write the Vatican (along with some sort of evidence.) The Vatican has insited that people have a right to write them about their grievances. We are not allowed to provide addresses of individuals on Catholic Answers, but if anyone wants to know the Vatican official to write to, email me. (The addresses of Vatican officials are also found in “The Official Catholic Directory” available in some libraries and parishes.)
grandfather said:
I have read all the posts and many say you should let your bishop know what is going on. That is probably the right thing to do, but there is a reasonable chance that your bishop may already know what is going on, or not care if he finds out. Many bishops support CTA either overtly or covertly. Even if what you say to him is news to him, there is better than a fair chance he will not do anything with your information. In a local parish near me the pastor and a group of liberals invited CTA in to take up residence. They started a book club as a way to spread their poison. Many parishoners joined the club and refuted the heresies CTA encouraged and then got orthodox books on the reading list, so CTA gave up. There is a war going on inside that parish. 75 or so families (not one) reported the priest to the bishop with a long list of things the priest did or does, said or says, that are outside the bounds of Catholic teaching and practice. The bishop did nothing about any of it. In another local parish the pastor openly states that he does not believe Catholic dogma. He does this with impunity.

The point is that you should not count on help from your bishop. You may get some, but may not. If you really want to do something about the heretical priest you will need to find other people in the parish who are orthodox and plan on a long battle.

Another disturbing thought you have to face is that generally when a priest dissents from Church teaching it is generally not confined to one topic, like women’s ordination. It is usually a package deal. They usually are not supportive of the teachings on sexual morals and other things as well. There are a lot of priests who embrace the CTA agenda and they know one another and are a force acting within the Church to further the aims to undermine Church teaching and reshape it according to their vision.

My point is that you can not expect to have a friendly chat with the priest or send off a letter to the bishop and be done with it, or that will fix the problem. That will be round one.

It seems you have several alternatives. Say nothing. Say something to the bishop and look for another parish where the priest is more orthodox and you can worship in peace. Say something to the bishop and get involved in a battle to save your parish from heresy.
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It appears that it is time again for a bit of reality therapy.

People have been writing to bishops for decades now; some letters have been about things they didn’t like; other about things that were somwhere between not exactly according to Hoyle, and completely off the spectrum.

Results have been, by and large, non existent other than the venting of the spleen that the letter provided the author.

To begin with, a presumption is made that the bishop actually opens his own mail. Where that came from I’ll never know… but I suspect that even if it is marked “Personal and Confidential” on the outside, there are some dioceses out there where such a letter would never cross the bishop’s desk. That may be the way the bishop wants it; or it may be the way someone else in the Chancery wants it.

So the first hurdle is even finding a way to insure that the bishop will actually get the letter.

The second hurdle is presuming that the bishop will do anything about it. Other than having a personal chat with the offending priest, it is not like the bishop has all sorts of means of dealing with the offending priest; anything the bishop does has to be guided by Canon law; and any good lawyer (whether he or she be a Canon lawyer or a civil lawyer) will tell you that where there are laws and proceedures, there are means of derailing things. The actual fact is that most priests are not going to get keel-hauled by a bishop even if the bishop wants to (which is, of course, the first prerequisite).

There was a diocese somewhere in the mid-West (to me, the other side of the Rockies) which was having some problems; people in the parish were a bit more creative than the usual letter writer. They formed an accurate video, and after sending it to the bishop properly, and getting no response, sent it to the proper dicastery in Rome, where it raised more than a few eyebrows. Some smoke came down the pipeline; but I do not recollect ever hearing that the issues (which were more likely than not widespread) got cleaned up in the diocese. In short, there is a possiblity that everyone hunkered down long enough that the whole issue blew over, and those in Rome went on to other issues.

If you really want to make an issue of this, you will best be advised to spend some money and hire a good, straight-forward Canon lawyer to assist you in the process, and presume that you will have to go to the bishop and then to Rome.

And don’t hold your breath even then of getting any results. There are people in Rome who are aware of the group and their stances, but the likelyhood of this priest getting brought up short, let alone keel-hauled, are most likely somewhere between slim and none.

I do not suggest that you do nothing; I simply would caution that in the real world, the likelyhood of results of any sort are marginal at best. If you wish to accomplish something, then you need to do it with the help of a Canon lawyer; otherwise you are simply venting your spleen. And that is just about as guaranteed as death and taxes.
 
APanda911 said:
I am new to the forum, just happening upon it in a general search; however, I do have a question: I was recently at Mass and our pastor gave a homily on a subject I found most upsetting - women being ordained as preists. He urged us to take prayer cards on the end of each pew from a group known as “Call to Action,” and told us to support them in whichever way we felt comfortable doing so. When I looked this group up online, I was very distressed. I feel that this is not within our Catholic teaching at all. What should I do? Although I am a devout Catholic, I have never become involved in the politics of the Church. Any and all advice would be appreciated.
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Your priest had no business interjecting that type of sexist politics in a Mass, let alone the Homily. That was a disservice to the congregation. Maybe the “call to action” should be to your bishop to inform him what exactly this priest is doing.
 
Aramis said:
One other thing. If your bishop approves of CTA, write off to the Sacred Congregation on the Faith in Rome…

When the bishop is bad, the whole faith suffers.
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Write the Apostolic Nuncio instead, or cc him on the correspondance with the Bishop.

Archbishop Pietro Sambi

3339Massachusetts Avenue NW,
Washington, DC 20008
 
Brendan said:
Write the Apostolic Nuncio instead, or cc him on the correspondance with the Bishop.

Archbishop Pietro Sambi

3339Massachusetts Avenue NW,
Washington, DC 20008
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Back to reality check.

The number of just complaints that Rome sees daily would probably melt their fax machines. Following the chain of command will most likely get nothng accomplished. Getting dissendent priests disciplined almost never happens. If that worked there would not be so many.

The laity is reluctant to get into confrontations in their parishes. We do not want to make waves. We pray, pay and obey. There is one thing the laity can do that gets results. If enough people in a parish are willing to get involved they hold the power of the purse. They pay the bills and if they stop donating the bills don’t get paid. As sad as that sounds this gets the immediate attention of the bishop.

Bishops like to keep things quiet. When something is going on in the diocese that is not kosher they don’t want attention being drawn to it. They like to stay under the radar. So if a group of Catholics makes public scene this also can help. If abortions are taking place in a Catholic hospital for example and some laity makes a bif scene this can get results.

Shining light on darkness works.
 
Well, I too wish I had some encouraging wisdom, but I don’t. I had a much more minor problem and tried to get an appoint with the bishop but was shot down by his staff. I do agree that he must be told. I also agree that a good canon lawyer would help if only as an advisor. I agree that the parish council and the parisheners (sp) hold much power IF you can get them to act. I recommend the letter to the bishop, the advice of a canon lawyer andif possible get the congregation behind you and take some sort of action as a group. Yes if the offering drops significantly the bishop will take notice but so will an article in a catholic paper like ‘Our Sunday Visitor’ or a write up in ‘First Things’ or ‘This Rock’. One last thing see if you can get a more orthodox speaker to come and give a lecture say Father Coropi from EWTN. He should be able to straighten out your heretical priest.
 
grandfather said:
Bishops like to keep things quiet. When something is going on in the diocese that is not kosher they don’t want attention being drawn to it. They like to stay under the radar. So if a group of Catholics makes public scene this also can help. If abortions are taking place in a Catholic hospital for example and some laity makes a bif scene this can get results.

Shining light on darkness works.
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There is a lot of truth to this.

I used to live in Michigan. A few years ago, a woman from an affluent suburban Detroit-area parish was running for governor. She was a reader and an extraordinary minister at her parish. She was also pro-abortion. When some people raised their eyebrows, the associate pastor, and then the pastor both publicly supported her in the parish bulletin and even in the local newspapers. For most of the other parishioners, it was “business as usual.” (I know this because I have relatives who were members there at the time.) The silence from the Cardinal was deafening. This went on for several months.

Then, over the summer before the election, people–mostly incensed Catholics from other parishes and some Eastern Orthodox–started picketing the parish before Masses. Someone finally alerted the media, and the cameras were rolling. Then, finally, His Eminence woke up and put out a tepid statement about the sanctity of life, blah, blah, blah. As I recall, His Eminence’s statement came out about a month or so before the election. Too little, too late. The pro-abortion governor is now well into her second term.

There are a number of lessons to be learned from this.
 
Lepanto said:
There is a lot of truth to this.

I used to live in Michigan. A few years ago, a woman from an affluent suburban Detroit-area parish was running for governor. She was a reader and an extraordinary minister at her parish. She was also pro-abortion. When some people raised their eyebrows, the associate pastor, and then the pastor both publicly supported her in the parish bulletin and even in the local newspapers. For most of the other parishioners, it was “business as usual.” (I know this because I have relatives who were members there at the time.) The silence from the Cardinal was deafening. This went on for several months.

Then, over the summer before the election, people–mostly incensed Catholics from other parishes and some Eastern Orthodox–started picketing the parish before Masses. Someone finally alerted the media, and the cameras were rolling. Then, finally, His Eminence woke up and put out a tepid statement about the sanctity of life, blah, blah, blah. As I recall, His Eminence’s statement came out about a month or so before the election. Too little, too late. The pro-abortion governor is now well into her second term.

There are a number of lessons to be learned from this.
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The main lesson is that we can not count on our shepherds to uphold the faith, to defend Church teaching on morals or faith. Their silence betrays them. When called on to defend the faith and the faithful they repeatedly fail to exercise their offices. Catholics complain about proabort politicians who call themselves Catholic, but the much bigger problem is not with those who hold office in civil governments. Rather, it is those who hold Church office and offically represent the faith, priests, bishops and cardinals.
 
Pray for our parish. Our priest has been vocal in the fact that he want women to be ordained as priests. Most of the servers at our parish are female and even though there are young men and boys available to serve the girls are who he gets from the pew if someone does not make it.

We need lots of prayer to keep our parish open as many are leaving and others are no longer giving their time or treasure under these conditions.
 
Why do women have to be priests? They can be nuns if they want to live a single, celibate life for God. People think that all priests do is say Mass and all nuns do is bake cookies and hit kids with rulers.
 
Lepanto said:
There is a lot of truth to this.

I used to live in Michigan. A few years ago, a woman from an affluent suburban Detroit-area parish was running for governor. She was a reader and an extraordinary minister at her parish. She was also pro-abortion. When some people raised their eyebrows, the associate pastor, and then the pastor both publicly supported her in the parish bulletin and even in the local newspapers. For most of the other parishioners, it was “business as usual.” (I know this because I have relatives who were members there at the time.) The silence from the Cardinal was deafening. This went on for several months.

Then, over the summer before the election, people–mostly incensed Catholics from other parishes and some Eastern Orthodox–started picketing the parish before Masses. Someone finally alerted the media, and the cameras were rolling. Then, finally, His Eminence woke up and put out a tepid statement about the sanctity of life, blah, blah, blah. As I recall, His Eminence’s statement came out about a month or so before the election. Too little, too late. The pro-abortion governor is now well into her second term.

There are a number of lessons to be learned from this.
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Well. as one saint put it, the road to hell is paved with the souls of bishops and priests. I can see why, in this case.
 
Larowyn said:
Why do women have to be priests? They can be nuns if they want to live a single, celibate life for God. People think that all priests do is say Mass and all nuns do is bake cookies and hit kids with rulers.
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Are you not aware that there are men, who like the women, are also vowed religious? Just like nuns and religious sisters, they are monks and religious brothers, and that call to live a celibate life in community and service is distinctly different than the call to be a priest. Otherwise, there could be no such thing as a religious-order priest, which is really a response to two different callings. A nun is not the “female equivalent” of a priest.
 
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