Women demand greater say in future of Catholic Church

[tinhson24]

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[october_baby]

My opinion is that, I saw the video and I saw a woman with very poor teaching.
We should pray for her.

 

[Tighty_Whitey]

My opinion is that, I saw the video and I saw a woman with very poor teaching.
We should pray for her.

Exactly! Her attitude about the church is astoundingly pitiful! She needs our prayers.

 

[edwest2]

I accept that only men can become priests for the reason I gave.

The first part of CCC 85 is a direct quote from Dei Verbum - which is infallible. The part that comes after “This means that…” is an interpretation. A clarification that must have some historical basis that may have nothing to do with women. Unfortunately, there is no reference attached to it. Do you know where it comes from?

I will go back and read Dei Verbum to see if it helps clarify things.

In any event, I fully accept that “living teaching office of the Church” includes the Bishops in communion with the successor of Peter. What I’m not convinced of is whether it has always been understood to be exclusive to them alone. In his letter to the Galatians, Paul indicates that James, Peter and John recognized that the grace to authentically interpret the Gospel does not necessarily have to come through them, but can come directly from God. It is an interesting letter - and only one of five Pauline letters whose authorship is not disputed by modern scholars.

Thus my questions remain. I don’t think this issue is a done deal. I don’t think it is wrong for women to ask tough questions and demand answers that can hold up to intense scrutiny. That doesn’t mean we don’t love and respect the men who presently make up the hierarchy of the Church. In fact, I am absolutely delighted with Pope Francis and the Cardinals who elected him.

Could you provide a few examples of these “tough questions”?

Ed

 

[Lucky7]

I admit I haven’t read through this thread. Please tell me it’s not about women being priests…again.

 

[Quaesitor]

I’m going to chime in here and give my two cents on the subject.

When I here about women wanting to be ordained and how the the church should modernize it makes me think of the chapter in John 6 when Jesus is explaining about eating and drinking his flesh. When the Jews left he had all the chance in the world to get them back by saying he was talking metaphorically but no he didn’t he let them walk away. He could have gone with public opinion but he didn’t.

Let’s stop worrying about public opinion. Let them talk, but just point out to people that they are not speaking for the majority of faithful Catholics. It should be publicly stated, which I believe it has been (maybe as an infallible teaching or something), that it is never going to happen and if they persist in their demands they should leave.

 

[bellasbane]

Could you provide a few examples of these “tough questions”?

Ed

How did sacred Tradition get Mary Magdalene so wrong for so long?

Now that this has been corrected, what is the significance of the fact that Jesus appeared to her first after the Resurrection?

How do we get from references to women as real leaders in the undisputed Pauline epistles to the submissive role relegated to women in the Pastoral epistles?

Stuff like that.

 

[SuperLuigi]

I guess it’s not enough that God chose to bring Jesus into the world, through a woman. Not enough that we women are privileged to carry, birth, nurture and raise Catholic saints. Not enough that we are privileged to create a “domestic church” within our own homes. Not enough that we have a completely unique and beautiful role in both humanity itself and in our Church. Nope- we want to take the men’s roles over, too.

I think if we American Catholic women were TRULY living up to our God-given obligations of raising good Catholic children, in strong Catholic homes, of providing assistance to the poor, the sick, the elderly, etc., we wouldn’t have time to screech and clamor about not having enough to do for and within the Church. Totally ridiculous.

Perhaps it’s time for the American Catholic male to start demanding that the Vatican permit them to give birth.

Well, when you’re a First World liberal political party trying to garner votes from victimhood or even trying to portray oneself as a “non-CAF” Catholic, following common sense and absolute Church teaching gets in the way of the selfish impulse to be accepted by others.

I’m just glad to reflect today on Palm Sunday that our Lord choose to go against the crowd.

 

[Julianna]

If those women want more power they should stop aborting (or preventing) the children they would have had who could become the Church’s future clergy.

It takes two to tango boy-o…a woman doesn’t get pregnant by herself.

 

[Julianna]

Why is this? Don’t we have equal brains? Or are men supposed to be smarter?

:tiphat:

Thanks…oh by the way… “DUCK”!

 

[bellasbane]

It takes two to tango boy-o…a woman doesn’t get pregnant by herself.

Reminds me of the story of Jesus and the woman taken in adultery in the Gospel of John, when Jesus says the famous words,"Let the one among you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.”

Of course it takes TWO people to commit adultery. So where it the man? He should also have been dragged out and stoned. However, nobody seemed to have bothered to accuse HIM. I guess things never change…

 

[Slaney]

Men can’t have babies & women can’t make a man pregnant, we all have roles in society…somethings just don’t fit…

 

[Julianna]

Reminds me of the story of Jesus and the woman taken in adultery in the Gospel of John, when Jesus says the famous words,"Let the one among you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.”

Of course it takes TWO people to commit adultery. **So where it the man? **He should also have been dragged out and stoned. However, nobody seemed to have bothered to accuse HIM. I guess things never change…

ah well, it’s just boys will be boys…and yes…some things in some places never change…

 

[oldcelt]

ah well, it’s just boys will be boys…and yes…some things in some places never change…

Amen, sad…isn’t It?

 

[livingwordunity]

How did sacred Tradition get Mary Magdalene so wrong for so long?

Now that this has been corrected, what is the significance of the fact that Jesus appeared to her first after the Resurrection?

How do we get from references to women as real leaders in the undisputed Pauline epistles to the submissive role relegated to women in the Pastoral epistles?

Stuff like that.

If this is about why women can’t be priests. The Virgin Mary is much greater than Mary Magdalene and greater than all other Christians. Our Lady knew Jesus and saw him before anyone else knew him or saw him. She is Queen of the Apostles, Queen of Angels, Queen of Saints, Queen of Patriarchs, etc. But she’s not a priest. So why would Mary Magdalene seeing Jesus first after the resurrection make her one?

 

[Mark121359]

And by the way, this is one of Johnette Benkovic’s specialities. (She is a widow and mother who lost one of her children.) On her Women of Grace radio show she has often spoken of spiritual motherhood. My suggestion would be to call her during her show, and share these same quesitons with her. Expect her to be welcoming and disarming

She is a treasure, and you’re right, Elizabeth … she’s warm and welcoming and generously gracious to all callers.

I completely agree with you Morwenna. That woman is an absolute treasure to our faith! Elizabeth has an excellent idea with her advice to jenwha to call Johnette Benkovic’s show. I often marvel at the great compassion Johnette has and the amount of time she will spend with a caller who is hurting. You truly get the sense that she’s genuinely concerned for that person. And I’ve even heard her tell the caller that after she was finished to stay on the line, and she would give her personal cell phone number to keep in contact! How caring is that! She really and truly is a “Woman of Grace.” There are just countless numbers of women who have so much to contribute to our Catholic Faith…Many of them I believe are right here posting on CAF by the way!

Peace, Mark

 

[Ender]

How do we get from references to women as real leaders in the undisputed Pauline epistles to the submissive role relegated to women in the Pastoral epistles?

Can you be specific: what leadership position do you want to see opened up to women? Talk about women being “real leaders” in the past is way too vague; tell us exactly what role you want to see women occupy. Cardinals? Bishops? Priests? Deacons? I mention those four specifically because it isn’t clear that any other roles are closed to them so if you have something else in mind it would clarify things enormously.

Ender

 

[Morwenna]

I completely agree with you Morwenna. That woman is an absolute treasure to our faith! Elizabeth has an excellent idea with her advice to jenwha to call Johnette Benkovic’s show. I often marvel at the great compassion Johnette has and the amount of time she will spend with a caller who is hurting. You truly get the sense that she’s genuinely concerned for that person. And I’ve even heard her tell the caller that after she was finished to stay on the line, and she would give her personal cell phone number to keep in contact! How caring is that! She really and truly is a “Woman of Grace.” There are just countless numbers of women who have so much to contribute to our Catholic Faith…Many of them I believe are right here posting on CAF by the way!

Peace, Mark

Great post! She is an amazing woman … particularly in light of the personal tragedies (plural ) that she has experienced in her life … and despite this, she has allowed God to work through her, to shine His truth, love, and compassion to so many.

If anyone reading this hasn’t had the chance to listen to her radio program, please take this opportunity to find out if your local Catholic radio station broadcasts it … and if not, you can listen via the link in my signature, at 8:00pm Eastern (11:00pm Pacific) Sunday-Thursday.

 

[bellasbane]

Can you be specific: what leadership position do you want to see opened up to women? Talk about women being “real leaders” in the past is way too vague; tell us exactly what role you want to see women occupy. Cardinals? Bishops? Priests? Deacons? I mention those four specifically because it isn’t clear that any other roles are closed to them so if you have something else in mind it would clarify things enormously.

Ender

The curia needs a great deal of reform. That would be one place to start. Also, reintroducing female deacons who can baptize, preach and marry. I don’t believe a person must be ordained in order to do any of those things.

 

[Elizabeth502]

The curia needs a great deal of reform. That would be one place to start.

And how does that relate to women?

Also, reintroducing female deacons who can baptize, preach and marry. I don’t believe a person must be ordained in order to do any of those things.

From closed but pertinent thread:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php​

Posted by Thomas Redd:
“the Church should re-establish the office of deaconess. This was an ancient Church office and could be re-establish if the will was there.”

Response by Brother Jreducation, Franciscan of Life
“The word “deacon” comes from the Greek word “diakonia”. It was used for anyone who served. For example, when Jesus washes the feet of his apostles, the early Church Fathers spoke about it as diakonia. We know that Jesus was not a deacon. He is the high priest.

The deaconess was not a member of the clergy. She was a waiter at the tables. If we look at the early letters of the Fathers of the Church, the Holy Eucharist was consecrated by the presbyters and then given to the ordained deacons (all males) to distribute. The deaconess waited on the tables, but had no liturgical role. This has been so since 47 AD.”

And by Friar David. O.Carm:
“Not only that but the roles that the deaconess fulfilled were taken over the the uncloistered sister. Before their advent in 1535, until that time there where only cloistered nuns.​

Women do preach in non-liturgical settings, as I mentioned earlier. They preach at retreats, and often fully conduct retreats on their own, absent clergy. Ditto for preaching at various parish and other Catholic gatherings of all kinds.