Women demand greater say in future of Catholic Church

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Mark121359 said:
What you say right here should put an end to this discussion. But somehow this “women priests” issue still has legs. I heard on the news that they stated that most Catholics want the Church to modernize, which to me is codeword for liberalize. I can’t even begin to imagine what it must be like for “liberal catholics” who are at such odds with the Roman Catholic Church on so many of her teachings. Watching the white smoke billow out of the Sistine Chapel, I can’t help but think that for many of our Catholic brothers and sisters, they were desperately hoping that the next Pope would bring about changes that would reflect their liberal views. And that’s really sad. I pray for them.
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The most troubling thing about this is that they want to change the Catholic Church. They are not willing to go to any number of other religions that would happily take them in. So I have to conclude that they don’t want religion, they want revolution. They claim that they love the Church and want to stay, but they don’t like most of what the Church teaches, so they would transform the Church so much that it wouldn’t be the Church anymore. Astoundingly self-contradictory. And they have little or no respect for those of us faithful who don’t want them to steamroller their revolution over our Church. They somehow have this naive notion that once they complete their agenda, we blind sheep will suddenly see how they had our welfare in mind all along and join them in hailing the revolution. Sorry, ain’t gonna happen. :nope:
 
3DOCTORS said:
If they had made an accurate headline, it would read "A certain faction of women demand . . ." These “women” aren’t all women. They don’t speak for me as a woman. :mad:

Now it’s one thing if there are some women who genuinely want to contribute to the Church their talents and work with the Pope and the Bishops to help the world. Someone like Mother Teresa. Not the rabble-rousers who want to change and make the Church unrecognizable as the Catholic Church, yet still insist on calling it the Catholic Church. No. These we must pray for that they get some humility and stop falling for the feminist propaganda.
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Thank you, 3Doctors, exactly what I was going to say 👍
 
R_C said:
The Church has stated clearly throughout history that She has no authority to confer the Holy Orders on women. Do you realize what it means, to hear confession? It means to act in persona Christi. It means not just deacon, but priest. The Church cannot ordain women, because Christ has not willed them to be ordained. Period.
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Indeed. The Church can no more confer priesthood upon a woman than it can confer pregnancy upon a man. These are realities of Nature.

Heck, some day science might even make the physical example given mutable, but Spiritual reality is immutable.
  • Marty Lund
 
dmar198 said:
It’s interesting. I left a comment in reply to one of the commenters who claimed that the Church has never recognized women as real people. And in my reply I posted several Church Fathers and Doctors of the Church who taught the equality of women – but the comment didn’t post. I’ll post part of it here: * A.D. 30 - Jesus taught the full equality of men and women in Mark 3:35, and modeled it in His relations with women.
  • A.D. 60 - St. Paul taught the full equality of men and women in Gal. 3:28 and in his teaching on marriage: “Let each one of you love his wife as himself,” that is, as an equal. Eph. 5:33.
  • A.D. 203 - In Stromateis, Book 4, Chapter 8, Clement of Alexandria taught that women were equal to men spiritually, but unequal physically, and thus explained their different social status. The chapter is called “On [the] Equality and Inequality of the Sexes.”
  • 407 A.D. - St. John Chrysostom taught that the woman is fully equal to the man: “She is of his kind, with the same properties as himself, of equal esteem, in no way inferior to him.” (Homily 15.1-3 on Genesis 2:20ff)
  • 430 A.D. - St. Augustine on the image of God: “Woman, insofar as she has a rational mind, is made to the image and likeness of God.” “Because of her reasonable and intelligent mind [she has] equality of nature.” (Literal Commentary on Genesis Book 3 Chapter 22, Confessions Book 13 Chapter 32)
  • 600-800 A.D. - Mixed-gender religious communities were founded in the seventh century in which the abbess had authority over both men and women (who lived in separate houses, of course). This is a reflection of their spiritual equality.
  • 1161 A.D. - Hildegard of Bingen wrote about the supreme love which is equal in the man and in the woman and which springs up between them in marriage, and how they are called to share in a marital life based in mutually seeking the good of the other. The work is titled “Causes and Cures,” in the section on Adam and Eve.
  • 1274 A.D. - St. Bonaventure: “In the first (chapter) of Genesis (it is written): God created man to His own image and likeness, male and female did He create them. If, therefore, the woman was created to the image of God and to equality with the man—just as her formation from (his) side hints at— …[then it follows that] in man and woman there is equally found the reckoning of (God’s) image.” (Commentary on the Four Books of Sentences, Book II, Commentary on Distinction XVI, Question 2, “Whether the image (of God) is more principally in the male than in the female.”)
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👍
 
So in the article she says

But Fleming counters: “The doctrine was man-made right? The ministry of Christ was as pure as can be. And ever since Christ left it in the hands of a man – that’s when things started to screw up.”

That’s Protestantism. Catholics believe the Holy Spirit stays with the church and guides it. So yeah, those doctrines weren’t man-made if you’re Catholic.

I feel kind of like a jerk, but women’s ordination and homosexual marriage and all of that just make no sense. It would contradict the Bible and years ecumenical doctrines. And yeah, we’re going to lose the popularity contest, but as Jesus put it “if the world hates you, remember that it hated me first.”
 
Any woman who is Catholic who thinks that women should be ordained is a heretic, plain and simple. The Church only ordains men and for good reason.
 
Mark121359 said:
What you say right here should put an end to this discussion. But somehow this “women priests” issue still has legs. I heard on the news that they stated that most Catholics want the Church to modernize, which to me is codeword for liberalize. I can’t even begin to imagine what it must be like for “liberal catholics” who are at such odds with the Roman Catholic Church on so many of her teachings. Watching the white smoke billow out of the Sistine Chapel, I can’t help but think that for many of our Catholic brothers and sisters, they were desperately hoping that the next Pope would bring about changes that would reflect their liberal views. And that’s really sad. I pray for them.
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I admit I do not know the exact legal aspect of it but why does this “put an end to the discussion?”
 
CaptFun said:
http://www.catholic.org/images/saints/stlucy.jpg St. Lucy http://www.catholic.org/images/saints/thumb_therese.jpg St. Therese of Liseaux
http://www.catholic.org/images/saints/thumb_stclare.jpg St. Clare

http://www.catholic.org/images/saints/thumb_stroseoflima.jpg St. Rose of Lima

http://www.catholic.org/images/saints/thumb_stelizabethannseton.jpg St. Elizabeth Ann Seton

… Never DEMANDED greater say in future of Catholic Church … actually had it however.
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You could add St. Teresa of Avila…oh, and Mary the Mother Of God, Queen of Heaven
🙂 🙂 🙂
 
BigBlueCane said:
I admit I do not know the exact legal aspect of it but why does this “put an end to the discussion?”
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Because in my view and the Church agrees a woman can never act in persona Christi (“in the person of Christ.")
The real meaning of "in persona Christi"
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You’ve probably heard the saying “in persona Christi” applied to priests. It’s a Latin phrase that very nicely sums up who and what a priest is. Translated, it means “in the person of Christ.” How that’s understood makes all the difference in the world.

For some, “in persona Christi” means that the priest merely represents Jesus before the people. Others believe it means that the priest simply performs actions that are Christ-like. The true meaning of the phrase, however, is far deeper than we can imagine without the gift of faith. For it means nothing less than that a priest, in a certain metaphysical sense, is Jesus.

Don’t take that to mean that when a man is ordained he somehow becomes divine like our Lord. No, as any priest will tell you, he retains his humanity just like the rest of us – complete with the inclination toward sin that afflicts us all.

Rather, at his ordination, a man’s soul is mystically transformed and given a permanent mark – also called a “character” – that empowers him to do for the People of God what ultimately only Jesus can do, most notably change ordinary bread and wine into the Lord’s body and blood, and forgive our sins in the Sacrament of Confession.

The next time you’re looking at a priest as he’s celebrating Mass or one of the other sacraments, try to see with the eyes of faith who is really standing before you – Jesus Christ!
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