Women, how should catholic men treat you?

[Lea101]

Of course it’s nice, I didn’t mean to downplay small acts of kindness. it’s just odd to treat a group of people that way specifically because of their gender.

I’m not really against the act of opening a door, since I do that for people. It’s more about when you do these things specifically because they’re women.

 

[tafan2]

I think it’s meaningless because it doesn’t really achieve anything for the woman.

But that is a different argument, and one worth having. I was responding directly to your statement that it was meaningless because of cultures where man is seen as the head/patrimony.

But if all a man does, with regards to women is open doors, pay for dates, etc and beyond that sees treates them with a lesser dignity, then I would agree, in those instances they are meaningless behaviors. But that does not mean, in general, they are without meaning.

Allow me, if you will, to take your homeless analogy and describe an actual conversation my wife once had with a woman. This lady told her, at one point in her life, when she had two kids at home and no means of support, she was actually begging on the street for help. She said the very worse part of the experience is how people would give her money, but that was it, they would not even make eye contact with her. They simply wanted to get away from her as fast as possible. This really struck home with me, because I am a person who tends to give money to beggars, but I realized that I was 100% guilty of the behavior this lady described. Since then, I have always made a conscience effort to look at them, and say something, perhaps just a" God Bless You", or “I will pray things get better”, but to actually interact in someway so that they do not feel like I consider them less than human. Why do I say this anecdote? Because if all I did was way “God Bless You” or whatever, to them it would be just as you say, rather meaningless. But if I do something to help them along and I make such a gesture, I can tell you their response is quite difference than if I just help them along.

So, I am by no means saying that women should not be treated with respect and dignity in all ways, that women should not be treated professionally the same as men with regards to pay and opportunity, that women should not be given authority in the home, that men should not do their share of the housework, etc. I am saying all of these things should be a given (I realize they are not), but women should also be shown these special manners, in addition to all of that. We men, should consider ourselves at the service to women. Why? because they are women. No other reason than they are due it because of their femininity.
I am further saying that teaching boys these manners and behaviors most certainly does not lead to showing them less respect in other ways. Back to our homeless example. It is possible, I suppose, that someone could make a habit of “patting him on the head” or saying “God Bless You” and just walking off, but I think it very unlikely. I think it much more likely that if one starts to physically interact with them in small ways, one is more likely feel the need to do something to “help him along”.

 

[livnlern]

We can’t always know why a man holds a door for a woman. Maybe it’s a habit or because he was taught to do that as a child. But it’s something helpful and that should be appreciated.
My point is that we all need to hold on to nice customs like this. Of course it’s a small thing that doesn’t mean much but society seems to be unraveling at a very quick pace. The more we can preserve civility among us, the better. I don’t care if it makes a man feel big and strong by holding the door for me or pulling out my chair. It’s a sign of good will.

 

[Lea101]

I was responding directly to your statement that it was meaningless because of cultures where man is seen as the head/patrimony.

In a society where men have power over women, their chosen way of showing respect to women through chivalry is pretty meaningless when they could pretty much show respect by giving women the freedom instead. That’s my point.

Of course, one would add that this doesn’t mean that every chivalrous guy was not in favor of women’s liberation and that is definitely true, but I would then add that most chivalrous guys tend to be pretty conservative and are in favor of more traditional gender roles/dynamics. So I’m not too far off.

I am saying all of these things should be a given (I realize they are not), but women should also be shown these special manners, in addition to all of that. We men, should consider ourselves at the service to women.

But why should women be treated differently if they have all of the equality? You still didn’t answer me
What about womanhood that makes women entitled to small little privileges men don’t have?

Why is it not the other way around? I suspect there’s actually an answer to this, instead of a non answer.

But if I do something to help them along and I make such a gesture, I can tell you their response is quite difference than if I just help them along

Yup, I clarified my point in a separate post. I’m all for little acts of kindness, but doing them specifically because someone is female is what’s odd to me.

 

[tafan2]

But why should women be treated differently if they have all of the equality? You still didn’t answer me

I have tried to answer in two different ways. I will try once again, but you will have to wait until later today or tomorrow morning, as I really need to focus on some work right now.

 

[Lea101]

I’ve seen one response: because they’re women and we need to show deference because of their femininity.

But yes please. It’s 1am here hence my very long responses, lol

 

[MagdalenaRita]

That’s the thing though. Men are just as important and valuable. They should not be treated as less worthy at all.

They are definitely equal in worth and are just as important but men should treat women different because men and women are different.

but I do think the reasoning behind it is outdated.

Never to be outdated.

And most deeply insulting. I’ve just crawled into bed after a 13 hour night shift as a paediatric doctor. I truly could knock someone out if they suggested that I am sensitive and could be damaged by too much stress.

I work prn as a nurse and when I am dogged tired after a shift I sometimes feel like I could knock someone out also if they said the wrong thing, but that is because of the stress and irritability.

Women are not delicate and sensitive, they are strong.

I would agree we are strong but not because we feel like we can knock someone out but because we are delicate and sensitive. Those qualities are God given strengths. Strengths He gave us to enable us to fulfill our roles as wives, mothers, doctors and nurses…

That attitude served as an excuse to put women down and not let them have certain careers or even have their opinion valued.

This is what feminists told us. Coming mostly from Betty Friedan and those who came after her. There were some radical feminists prior to that who spread that rumor also.

 

[livnlern]

But why should women be treated differently if they have all of the equality? You still didn’t answer me
What about womanhood that makes women entitled to small little privileges men don’t have?

Women are equal as human beings, that’s very true. But equality shouldn’t include getting jobs just because they are women. Women as police officers or firefighters are not equal to men in the same job. No matter how much they want to be. Men are biologically bigger and stronger than women. And yet women are pushed into these types of jobs because it’s politically correct. I wouldn’t want my husband or son put in danger because he has to cover for a woman that can’t physically do the same job.
So this is the flip side to women being given special treatment.

 

[JulianN]

No. Personal blog links are not allowed.

 

[Sarcelle]

It’s easy to say that such accusations of women being mistreated due to their sex is baseless and such accusations are the work of radical feminists.

This forum is visited not just by westerners but by non-westerners whose cultures really do see women as inferior. Lea is of Indian ethnicity and men are given preferential treatment over women same thing with my cultural background.

So when we talk about women not being treated well we aren’t being brainwashed feminists. We have actually seen and lived it.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

I think it’s meaningless because it doesn’t really achieve anything for the woman

like paying for a meal, opening a door, offering a seat etc would be meaningless because it’s simply a gesture that doesn’t offer her much.

Polite gestures or acts of kindness do not always give some one some type of achievement that can be seen. They do something for someone inside.

Food given to a homeless man will certainly fill him for a while but the smile, maybe the pat on the head, or the speaking to him kindly will stay with him. Just the same way when speaking to someone and saying their name is a sign of respect or kindness that does something that can not be seen. Passing someone and smiling at them does the same thing.

They are acts of kindness.

When a woman is treated with respect and chivalry it does achieve something, inside. Not something that can be held or seen but something inside that makes her feel good. Careers and jobs and all the money in the world can’t accomplish that.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

This forum is visited not just by westerners but by non-westerners whose cultures really do see women as inferior. Lea is of Indian ethnicity and men are given preferential treatment over women same thing with my cultural background.

So when we talk about women not being treated well we aren’t being brainwashed feminists. We have actually seen and lived it.

I absolutely agree that women have in times past, now and in places around the world have been and are being treated disrespectfully, poorly and cruelly.

I am not saying that these accusations are baseless. It has happened and does happen but then that is all the more reason for what is being said here in this thread.

Women should not be treated this way. Women should be treated with respect always and everywhere and not just because they have a career or what they do or what they have done but because of our femininity. Because God made us women. Just the same as a man should be treated with respect because of how God made him, a man.

And the thing is too, not all men have treated women cruelly. Not all men are to blame. That is why I continue and will continue to bring up and speak out against the radical feminist agenda (I am not saying anyone is or isn’t a radical feminist) that has and is taking away the chivalrous and respectful treatment toward women offered to us by men.

This thread right here is a man asking how can he treat women with respect and dignity. It’s awesome. Men are also created in the image and likeness of God and are good.

 

[stephenSTOSS1]

Well, all I can say is I have done it for quite some time. My blog is on my companies website, and is part of my publishing business. No moderator has said anything to me yet. I see people linking to companies and blogs on companies websites quite often.

 

[Joe_5859]

Well, all I can say is I have done it for quite some time. My blog is on my companies website, and is part of my publishing business. No moderator has said anything to me yet. I see people linking to companies and blogs on companies websites quite often.

The forum FAQ states:

1. Links are only permitted as references for the topic of discussion. Links for promotional purposes, personal blogs, or to anti-Catholic websites are not permitted. Exceptions may be made for Catholic related resources.

I think the main thing they want to avoid is spam and self-promotion. I think if a poster has a blog and wrote all their thoughts on a topic in a blog post and they want to link to it, that’s one thing. But it’s something different if a poster comes to the forum and every other post is saying, “Visit my blog! Buy my home-made rosaries!”

Your link seemed related to the topic of the thread rather than shameless self-promotion, so I wouldn’t think it would be an issue. But it’s something to be mindful of. If a post comes across in a spam-like way, someone might flag it.

 

[dochawk]

I don’t know the case, but would you apply this equally to all females between the ages of 15 and 45, no matter their state in life? And would this justify discrimination in employment?

I just saw this. I checked out of this topic, but this was open on another computer.

In that case, the factory floor was producing lead based batteries. There was no way at that time that their process could be made save for a pregnant woman. I forget whether it was high risk of birth defects, or high rate of miscarriage (the former, I think).

The company prohibited women of child bearing age from holding that job, not from working elsewhere in the company.

Note that given the technology they had available, the choices were to prohibit women of that age from that floor, pay staggering damages to women who did get pregnant while working there, or shut down (again, available technology would not eliminate the risk, at least at a cost that let the product remain in the market).

 

[JulianN]

I’m just saying that it’s specifically mentioned in the rules.

 

[Lea101]

I already clarified that I was referring to people who have power, but chooses to do small actions anyway. In a society where men were taken more seriously, they could have just fought for the women instead of opening a door. Idk, i would prefer the men in my life supporting me than paying for a dinner or anything like that tbh. But unfortunately, the people who tend to strongly believe in chivalry also tend to believe in more traditional gender roles in society/marriage

 

[Lea101]

When a woman is treated with respect and chivalry it does achieve something, inside. Not something that can be held or seen but something inside that makes her feel good. Careers and jobs and all the money in the world can’t accomplish that.

This is your experience, and that’s truly great. Chivalry won’t do much for me besides making me feel slightly awkward in the moment. I say thank you and move on anyway, because it’s not a huge deal lol

This is not to say that people shouldn’t do little good deeds, but to say that someone doing that because I’m a woman would do something for me that money, career or whatever wouldn’t do is a reach (for me).

There are women, who aren’t crazy feminists, that don’t really bother or care about acts of chivalry tbh.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

I already clarified that I was referring to people who have power, but choose to do small actions anyway.

I’m sorry I guess I missed that.

the people who tend to strongly believe in chivalry also tend to believe in more traditional gender roles in society/marriage

I would say that is a possibility. I definitely believe strongly in traditional gender roles. I didnt used to but life’s experiences changed my thinking.

God bless

 

[Mi_Rose]

The days shown in the picture were also the days when if women made it into law or medical school their classmates and some professors actively worked to try to get them to leave and if they went to work and something happened to their child it was their fault because they were not at home. Go back? No thanks.