WOMEN ONLY: Your "opinions" on Women Ordination

[Genesis315]

hthrlu:

As to the term “feminazi” - It is extremely unfair to sling the term Nazi around, and to use it freely is really demeaning to the millions of families who were slaughtered in the holocaust. You (and Rush Limbaugh) are basically saying that women who pursue equality are morally equivalent to one of the most murderous regimes in history. Wanting equal pay for equal work is equivalent to sticking Jews in gas chambers? I think not. The flaming and mudslinging has no place in a healthy debate.

Slaughtering millions of innocents is slaughtering millions of innocents. The feminazis want to slaughter babies and the Nazis wanted to slaughter Jews.

As to priests vs. priestesses - Sticking the -ess suffix on any word doesn’t just designate it as female, as our culture would have you believe. Sticking that suffix on a term is making it diminutive - meaning smaller, and less important than the man’s term. Actress, Waitress, Hostess - these terms have become socially accepted to mean a female actor - but they’re demeaning in root. Priestess would do the same thing. Especially if you’re debating with people who know the difference, and they’ve asked you to quit mocking them or demeaning them, to continue to do so is not healthy debate.

Why not be as as specific as possible so we know exactly what we’re talking about? There’s nothing wrong with gender specific language unless you think being called a female is demeaning. Maybe you do.

You are still pretending that you know what God’s plan is. You don’t know what his plan is, neither do I. It’s entirely possible that women will never be priests, but I believe it’s in God’s hands.

The Church does. That’s the whole reason Jesus founded it.

Your opinion is valid - you can certainly believe that women have no place in Holy Orders, and that’s fine. But to say it’s impossible is discounting any power that God has in the situation. That’s my point.

The question is not what God possibly could have done. He could have done anything. The question is what God did do. And when He instituted the sacrament of Holy Orders, He made it valid only on men.

If you still feel like you are valued or worth less than men, please read this:
Mulieris Dignitatem
vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_letters/documents/hf_jp-ii_apl_15081988_mulieris-dignitatem_en.html

 

[hthrlu]

Genesis315:

Slaughtering millions of innocents is slaughtering millions of innocents. The feminazis want to slaughter babies and the Nazis wanted to slaughter Jews.

Why not be as as specific as possible so we know exactly what we’re talking about? There’s nothing wrong with gender specific language unless you think being called a female is demeaning. Maybe you do.

The Church does. That’s the whole reason Jesus founded it.

The question is not what God possibly could have done. He could have done anything. The question is what God did do. And when He instituted the sacrament of Holy Orders, He made it valid only on men.

If you still feel like you are valued or worth less than men, please read this:
Mulieris Dignitatem
vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_letters/documents/hf_jp-ii_apl_15081988_mulieris-dignitatem_en.html

I don’t feel like I am valued or worth less than men. Those words never came out of my mouth. I have read Mulieris Dignitatem, twice.

I am being very specific when I talk about women being ordained as priests. There is no reason to mock me or demean women by saying that they need to differentiated by the -ess suffix.

Slaughtering millions of innocents? Okay, I understand that a LOT of babies have been aborted, but I said in my last post that I am pro-life. I have never had an abortion. I am not on the birth control pill. I believe that abortion is wrong. I am not a nazi - I don’t believe that it’s right to abort babies. I believe in equality between men and women - that’s not the same as slaughtering innocents, thank you very much.

What God did do and what God can do are two different topics. I have not ever said that women have any right to ordination. I understand the way the church is set up, and that Jesus chose men. I have never debated that. I just said that IF God wanted women ordained, it’s in his hands and it will be revealed to us…IF…why do so many people disagree with that?

 

[AuntMartha]

Heather,

I think the problem here is the “fighting for it (female ordination)” you mention. If, as you state, it should be left in God’s hands, why is it okay for women to be fighting for ordination, campaigning for it, demanding it?

If God wants women priests it will happen by Him, not by some whining women, who can’t seem to understand the meaning of humility and obedience, insisting on it.

Aunt Martha

 

[CatherineSienna]

I’m in the 50 + category. I definitely do not believe in WO. I left the Episcopal Church, of course for many reasons, chiefly because The Lord was calling me to Rome. But one of the factors thet “pushed” me out was that our otherwise conservative parish had just accepted it’s first female priest.

 

[huskerfan]

I don’t believe that women should be priests. If God wanted that to happen He would have said so. Why can’t we leave alone what works? Why do we always think we know more than God and can make better decisions? Let’s not waste our time debating this (I’m not talking about the thread, I’m talking about the debate in general), but let’s pray for the men that are our priests and the women that are our nuns. I have an incredible amount of admiration for the men and women who take on that type of service!!! They hold such a special place in my heart! God Bless them both!

 

[MrS]

huskerfan:

I don’t believe that women should be priests. If God wanted that to happen He would have said so. Why can’t we leave alone what works? QUOTE]
\

Yep.

Further, God has spoken on this subject very clearly: “He who hears you, hears Me, and he who rejects you, rejects Me and the One Who sent Me”

More recently, Fr Groeschel and others have said that we need to understand that “…we can not come to Christ on our terms.”

 

[Mom_of_5]

No to women priests. However, I do know a few really wonderful women priests in the Episcopal Church. Sad that they are not in the Catholic Church as nuns or doing other ministerial work. Just met a great women Methodist minister who happens to be a hospital chaplain. She told me she had been Catholic and would still be if she could have been a priest. I did suggest to her that there are many other ways of serving the Church and the Lord, however she would not “settle for less”.

Lets just keep male, unamarried priests. Sometimes I think those who fight for big change would be really sorry if they got their way.

Love and Peace

 

[Lovez4God]

:ehh: hmmz looks like someone just came back from a non-Catholic church service and got jealous that the Catholic is still holy.

I’m a guy. So I’ll make this thread more interesting.

Historically, society has been incredibly patriarchal and women’s roles have been suppressed and the instances where women’s roles were not suppressed have been purposely erased from public record. We simply don’t know if women had priestly positions early on, and therefore we can’t just flat out assume that they didn’t. (The fact that women priests aren’t spoken of in the Bible just isn’t enough for me, it’s a known fact that people like Paul were staunch mysoginists, not to mention the men who put the Bible together later.)

If, in this case let’s assume you are right, public record and history somehow suppressed women, why aren’t there revolts of women in the past? Maybe the women of the past were satisfied with their role in society. Maybe it is you modern women that are revolting against women of the past. Can you honestly say you are smarter than people of the past?
What is it that I’m hearing, perhaps it is in God’s will that women will have opportunity in the future?? Are you saying God is not All-knowing, Omnipontent, the Alpha and Omega?
I don’t think anyone in here can claim to have the authority from God, or that God’s will will work with their false illusion for the future.
Are you saying the Church is not sufficient in what she teaches?
Maybe it’s almost the end of the age, because everyone got so much to say and too much to argue that eventually will end in confusion. This is one of the signs of the end.
The Church is sufficient I SAY !!!

 

[Pentecost2005]

Mom of 5:

Just met a great women Methodist minister who happens to be a hospital chaplain. She told me she had been Catholic and would still be if she could have been a priest. I did suggest to her that there are many other ways of serving the Church and the Lord, however she would not “settle for less”.

In other words, “sorry, Lord… MY will, not Thine, be done… according to MY word.”

 

[moira]

One more reason women can’t be priests. Holy Orders is a sacrament and for a sacrament to be valid you need the proper form and matter. A man is the proper matter. He is the groom to the Church (the bride).

 

[WhatIf]

I think it is interesting how the poll was worded. Why not put in the poll that some women think that women SHOULD NOT be priests, instead of CAN NOT.

It is as if you are saying that many women are only saying No to women being ordained because they are obedient and have accepted that women can not be priests. How about the practical side of why women should not be Priests?

How about being one on one with a man in confession and being raped? How about the problems with being an authority figure for other men in the parish? How about being less suited for it? How about being assigned to areas that maybe are not safe for women? I can see all sorts of problems with women being ordained.

I think too many women think that because they can have the same “job” as a man then we have reached an equality with them. I think instead, what would make us more equal to men is if OUR JOBS were valued as equally important in our society. How are we acheiving being respected for what we do for our children and our spouses, if we ourselves push these priorities to the back burner in order to have the same jobs as men. Our energy should not be spent by showing that we can do anything that a man can do, but instead we should show what we do, that men can not do as well.

This may be a weird way of restating this, but 2+2 = 4.
The 2 and the 4 are not the same number, but each side of the equation is equal. So, let make being homemaker or wife equal to being provider and husband instead of saying that we have to prove that we can be equally good providers or HUSBANDS.

I used to think that I could do anything men can do, but then I realized what is really important is for there to be WOMEN in the world doing what we do best. Nurturing/loving, communicating, teaching/spirituality, supporting our families and spouses in so many ways. Let men have their man world. Women are important to this world without having the same titles as men. Defend our role in this world instead of trying to say that we can fill the role of men. Sure, we can fill the role of men, sort of, but why? That throws things off balance. That is my view anyhow.

What is really gained by women being ordained? What would be lost? How about feminizing the Preisthood? Now that ought to attract a few good men to the priesthood - NOT.

I think the old feminist idea of women having the “right” to work in any field is just that, OLD. How about women being respected for staying home with children or even “standing behind her man”? When we have equal respect for these things, then we are truly equal, but if we have to do a “man’s job” to be viewed as equal, then we have acheived nothing for the equality of women.

 

[hthrlu]

This will be my last post on this board. I came to the forums before my baptism and confirmation, looking for some ideas for gifts for my sponsor. I thought that I would find a Catholic place to talk to people that I could talk about my ideas and feelings, beliefs and spirituality, and be received as well as my parish church. Boy, was I wrong.

I have stated that I believed that female ordination was in God’s hands, and that if he wanted it to be, it would be made known to us (the flip-side to this is that if God doesn’t want female ordination, things will stay as they are, okay by me…). There is nothing blasphemous about this. I haven’t said that women should be ordained, or that they have any right to be ordained. Only that the issue is in God’s hands, and anyone who stated that it was impossible was discounting any control God had in the situation. After all, any non-believer could say that a virgin birth is impossible, too…

I have been mocked and ridiculed. I have been talked down to, told that my beliefs are malformed, and that I need to be re-chatechized. I have had only one poster here that talked to me like I was a human being, and I thanked him for it.

I have read the gospels, and Acts. I have seen that during Jesus’s time, it was the Pharisees who were sticklers for rules and regulation - how are you all any different? How can you sit here and condemn me and my beliefs (which are that God is omnipotent…) by telling me what the rules and doctrine are? Are you no better than the Pharisees for condemning Jesus for thinking outside the box?

I have never stated that we should change the doctrine of the church. I have never stated that women had any right to be ordained. I simply said that if it were God’s will, He would let us know.

Also, regarding the “feminazi” (there is no “t” in “Nazi”) and "priest " vs “priestess” terminology - I was a communication major in college. I have a Bachelor’s degree in Communication, and my emphasis was in language. I studied the language, and the characteristics of it. I learned from respectable scholars. The -ess suffix IS demeaning to women, period. Those who continue to use it are mocking and demeaning their opponents - a sure sign of a malformed platform. The same logic goes for “feminazi” - although this is a more serious offense. Charging me, a pro-life feminist of the John Paul tradition, with the death of millions of innocents is slander and offensive. I have been anti-abortion since I was 10 years old. I am not responsible for the death of the aborted babies because I believe in equality. You all are warped.

Please don’t pray for me and my family. I don’t need to see the errors of my ways. I especially don’t need help from those who are so stubborn and hard-headed that they can’t even agree that God is omnipotent. My husband, a cradle-Catholic who could be an apologist, and I will be just fine.

I am sorry to say that I will not be able to recommend this forum to the protestants in my life who are considering Catholicism. I hoped I had found a loving and Christ-like atmosphere here, but I found the same old “I am right and you need to read the Bible” attitude that I found at any protestant venue. I hope I do a better job of showing Christ to the world than I have found here.

Thanks.
Heather

 

[JCPhoenix]

Heather, whether you read this or not I will respond and I will continue to pray for you and for your family.

No one has mocked you or ridiculed you. I and others used the term “feminazi” and you voluntarily jumped in and overreacted to the comment not directed towards you.

I’m sorry that you feel that because people disagree with you and speak the truth about the faith that you take it as a personal attack. No attacks have been made against you.

Regarding your education…good for you! However, I have an $80,000 dollar piece of paper as well (after interest from loans) and therefore my opinion as a woman as to what is offensive to me is just as valid.

I have to ask, since you bring up feminism…is my opinion less valid because it differs from your “feminist” theories? Does it matter that I was a firefigter and worked alongside men, working 3 times as hard to do the same job? Does it matter that I was straight among lesbian women so made to feel less like a woman because I disagreed with their lifestyle (ie I am attracted to men as God ordained)? Does it matter to you that I have been a police officer and I was accused of having been hired only because of Affirmative Action, demeaning the hard work I did just to be hired.

You may have a soapbox, but I have stood there and continue to do so as well. But I have learned that feminism is an affront to God and to nature. There may be some truths within the philosophy, but the root is evil and this is proven by the fruits of the feminist movement, namely contraception and abortion among others.

You can turn tail and run just because people disagreed with you on these boards, but you cannot run from the truth of Christ. I’m sorry you were upset, but in order to hold your position on any topic you would do well to develop a thick skin…whether here or in the real world.

This would be a good place for you if you are willing to accept that your communications major written on an expensive parchment and a pro-life stance don’t make you immune to the disagreement of others.

Please reconsider and come back, but if you do, don’t look for the PC world of feminism to reign supreme here.

Yes, leave the decisions to God, but expect to gain an education as to the ideas of others who may not agree with your own philosophies.

God Bless and keep you,

JCP

 

[WhatIf]

hthrlu:

This will be my last post on this board. I came to the forums before my baptism and confirmation, looking for some ideas for gifts for my sponsor. I thought that I would find a Catholic place to talk to people that I could talk about my ideas and feelings, beliefs and spirituality, and be received as well as my parish church. Boy, was I wrong.

I have stated that I believed that female ordination was in God’s hands, and that if he wanted it to be, it would be made known to us (the flip-side to this is that if God doesn’t want female ordination, things will stay as they are, okay by me…). There is nothing blasphemous about this. I haven’t said that women should be ordained, or that they have any right to be ordained. Only that the issue is in God’s hands, and anyone who stated that it was impossible was discounting any control God had in the situation. After all, any non-believer could say that a virgin birth is impossible, too…

I have been mocked and ridiculed. I have been talked down to, told that my beliefs are malformed, and that I need to be re-chatechized. I have had only one poster here that talked to me like I was a human being, and I thanked him for it.

I have read the gospels, and Acts. I have seen that during Jesus’s time, it was the Pharisees who were sticklers for rules and regulation - how are you all any different? How can you sit here and condemn me and my beliefs (which are that God is omnipotent…) by telling me what the rules and doctrine are? Are you no better than the Pharisees for condemning Jesus for thinking outside the box?

I have never stated that we should change the doctrine of the church. I have never stated that women had any right to be ordained. I simply said that if it were God’s will, He would let us know.

Also, regarding the “feminazi” (there is no “t” in “Nazi”) and "priest " vs “priestess” terminology - I was a communication major in college. I have a Bachelor’s degree in Communication, and my emphasis was in language. I studied the language, and the characteristics of it. I learned from respectable scholars. The -ess suffix IS demeaning to women, period. Those who continue to use it are mocking and demeaning their opponents - a sure sign of a malformed platform. The same logic goes for “feminazi” - although this is a more serious offense. Charging me, a pro-life feminist of the John Paul tradition, with the death of millions of innocents is slander and offensive. I have been anti-abortion since I was 10 years old. I am not responsible for the death of the aborted babies because I believe in equality. You all are warped.

Please don’t pray for me and my family. I don’t need to see the errors of my ways. I especially don’t need help from those who are so stubborn and hard-headed that they can’t even agree that God is omnipotent. My husband, a cradle-Catholic who could be an apologist, and I will be just fine.

I am sorry to say that I will not be able to recommend this forum to the protestants in my life who are considering Catholicism. I hoped I had found a loving and Christ-like atmosphere here, but I found the same old “I am right and you need to read the Bible” attitude that I found at any protestant venue. I hope I do a better job of showing Christ to the world than I have found here.

Thanks.
Heather

I don’t understand why you are so upset. I hope it wasn’t anything that I said. I was just giving my opinion on feminism.

If God wants women to be ordained, then they will. I hope you still have the same love for God, if he looked you straight in the eye and said “Women can never be ordained. This is for men only.”

I think you would. Since God doesn’t speak to us directly most of the time, we look to the Church for guidance. I have a tendency to rebel against anyone who says that I can not do something, but I have learned to accept Church Teaching. I guess it is ok to wonder if God will ever reveal to us that women should be ordained, but this has not been revealed to the Church and I hope that all women accept the authority of the Church on this matter.

So, where is the disagreement. Why are you so upset? So, there are differing views. No one is trying to attack you personally. It is hard for people to even know each other “personally” on these forums. I think many people have other things/people on their minds when they talk in a somewhat hostile way at times. It is nothing personal. We all have “hurts” that are brought to mind when we read some posts and we vent. Please don’t stomp off mad. Is that really what Jesus wants of us? Hang in there. Correct us when we are wrong and be willing to consider our opinions too. Remember that there are some people that are not even posting who are learning from you. Calm down and explain what has made you so fuming mad.

 

[jimmy]

hthrlu:

I am so sick of the anti-feminism stereotyping on this board. You would think that it is dispicable to believe in femininity as something to be proud of. I have said this before, and I will say it again - Women who desire this equality are fighting for women to be PRIESTS, NOT PRIESTESSES. There is no need to make your point by mudslinging and demeaning the opposite camp. Make your point intellectually or spiritually - not flaming, please. There is no need to be that way, and it’s not exactly showing Christ to anyone. This would also include calling everyone who believed this a “feminazi”.

Further, I am not misinformed, and my Catholic beliefs are fine. I have read and discussed this issue at length, and do not believe that the “church doesn’t have the authority” to ordain women. Yes, I know that is what Pope John Paul II said. I have read the whole thing.

I believe that if and when God’s plan includes female ordination, it will be made known to us and the church will ordain women…IF and WHEN… I also believe that anyone who disagrees with that statement is discounting any power God has in the situation. So a few women want to believe that it’s in God’s hands…what’s wrong with that? I am NOT advocating that women be ordained tomorrow, but I don’t believe that anyone should tell me it’s impossible - you and I don’t know what God’s plan is.

I didn’t vote in the poll - I don’t necessarily advocate female ordination right now, but I believe that if it’s in God’s plan, it will happen, and I will be happy to see it.

I am 25 years old, with a strong feminist background (don’t mistake that for stereotypically “feminazi” - I am pro-life, and I want to stay home and raise my children, but I believe that women are equal to men in value and worth). I was baptized and confirmed at Easter Vigil, and have passionately been studying Catholicism for the past 4 years.

God bless,
Heather

JCPheonix is not mudslinging at the opposite camp. SHE is in the same camp you are in. Further you mention women fighting for being priests and then you mention it being in God’s hands. If it is in God’s hands why are they fighting for it? If God desires to have it done, then he will do it without there fighting. They should not be fighting.

 

[Nun_ofthe_Above]

Short answer…No!

 

[cbear]

um, excuse me…where’s the 14-18 age groups? we have opinions too!! I’m personally against woman ordinations.

 

[jjwilkman]

shannin:

Weren’t the Apostles all men?

I’m one of the older ones here so I guess I’m just used to having male priest and female nuns. After all, a nun, in my opinion, is just as holy as a priest and deserves the same respect. Nuns do wonderful work in serving the Lord. It shouldn’t be about who has the most “power”. If it’s only “power” that they’re after, then they shouldn’t be either a priest or a nun.

As I’ve said before, if people don’t like the rules of the Church, then they are free to leave. The media make it seem as though the Church is divided on this issue, but I think it’s only a few wacko women that are causing all this dissention.

Shannin

neat!!

role reversals. i’m in the vfw. they accept women. so, then what? is there going to be a men’s auxilliary??? who would join?
there is such a thing as carrying it too far! i think it already has been. hasn’t anybody figured out htat men and jwomen are different? vive la diference!

 

[aloejamb]

We are all called to a vocation. Some of us the priesthood, as a nun, as a wife, as a mother, as a single woman etc etc etc…
There is no one particular vocation that holds more “power” than the other. The important thing is that you listen to God’s will for the path you are to be on. Some women get in an uproar because they feel like they are being left out of the heirarchy of things. It’s narrow thinking IMHO. Embrace the role God gave to us women. Realize the gifts we have in our feminine make up. It doesn’t make us less than men. We are made so uniquely. Why not spend this energy taking the time to get in touch with what it really means to be a woman?!

 

[James_2_24]

LoneRanger:

am not offering an opinion on the subject since you ask only for women’s opinions… but,

why would someone concerned about the exclusion of a sex from the ordained, then turn right around and exclude a sex from (name removed by moderator)ut?

something bothers me about this picture or thread…

It is because I wanted to know how many women think women should or should not be ordained. You will often come across the agrument that it is just the men in the Church who are “oppressing” the women and not letting them be ordained. In order to combat this idea, it would help to see that WOMEN actually are against women’s ordination themselves. There are already many polls in the media which say “such and such a percent of CATHOLICS are for Women’s ordination”. So, I’d like to see what Catholic Women have to say about that…