Women priests become Catholics

[NewUlm1976_2000]

No, discussion and debate are NOT still going on in the Catholic Church. The Pope has spoken, the discussion is over.

It is only over while we are in the Papacy of BXVI. Future Popes may have a different opinion, and only time will tell.

 

[Steeltemplar]

It is only over while we are in the Papacy of BXVI. Future Popes may have a different opinion, and only time will tell.

No, it has been defined as doctrine that only men may be Priests. It will never change no matter what anyone’s opinion may be.

 

[LRThunder]

It is only over while we are in the Papacy of BXVI. Future Popes may have a different opinion, and only time will tell.

Not possible. No pope can change doctrine or dogma. That’s like saying one day men can have children like women can. Not possible.

 

[CapaxDei]

It is only over while we are in the Papacy of BXVI. Future Popes may have a different opinion, and only time will tell.

Give it up, please.

 

[rjs1]

No, if the Anglican Church recognizes they are priests, then they are priests of the Anglican Church. They probably do a pretty good job in the Anglican Church. The discussion and debate are still ongoing in the Catholic Church.

NO!!! The discussion and debate are NOT still going on in the Catholic Church. Read the Papal pronouncements. The ordination of women is impossible. This has been infallably proclaimed. Check the articles in the Catholic Answers library.

You say that they probably “do a pretty good job” as “priests” in the Anglican Church. Whether they are really priests or not has nothing to do with what they appear to be doing when we look from the outside. What makes them priests is simply a fact of whether God has ordained them or not. Because some Anglicans call them priests does not, in any way, make them priests. To say that they are priests of the Anglican Church is meaningless.

The so called “ordination” of these women has torn the Anglican Church appart. How dare they complain about being persecuted when they have trampled on the faith and doctrine of millions.

 

[fix]

It is only over while we are in the Papacy of BXVI. Future Popes may have a different opinion, and only time will tell.

Opinion? What about objective truth and the HolySpirit?

 

[Joe_5859]

It is only over while we are in the Papacy of BXVI. Future Popes may have a different opinion, and only time will tell.

Could you please explain how the below is only an opinion that could change? Thanks!

Pope John Paul II says (in his Apostolic Letter Ordinatio Sacerdotalis):

Wherefore, in order that all doubt may be removed regarding a matter of great importance, a matter which pertains to the Church’s divine constitution itself, in virtue of my ministry of confirming the brethren (cf. Lk 22:32) I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church’s faithful.

This was not clear enough and people still questioned. Eventually, the question came before the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith:

Dubium: Whether the teaching that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women, which is presented in the Apostolic Letter Ordinatio Sacerdotalis to be held definitively, is to be understood as belonging to the deposit of faith.

Responsum: In the affirmative.

The CDF goes on to further clarify:

This teaching requires definitive assent, since, founded on the written Word of God, and from the beginning constantly preserved and applied in the Tradition of the Church, it has been set forth infallibly by the ordinary and universal Magisterium (cf. Second Vatican Council, Dogmatic Constitution on the Church Lumen Gentium 25, 2). Thus, in the present circumstances, the Roman Pontiff, exercising his proper office of confirming the brethren (cf. Lk 22:32), has handed on this same teaching by a formal declaration, explicitly stating what is to be held always, everywhere, and by all, as belonging to the deposit of the faith.

As I understand it, it seems you’d be hard-pressed to find anything else in recent Church history stated more clearly than this. I’m interested to hear your explanation of the above.

 

[Riley259]

No, if the Anglican Church recognizes they are priests, then they are priests of the Anglican Church. They probably do a pretty good job in the Anglican Church. The discussion and debate are still ongoing in the Catholic Church.

The debate might continue among some dissident members of the Church but the official and infallible teaching of the Church is that women cannot become priests.

 

[Rand_Al_Thor]

It is only over while we are in the Papacy of BXVI. Future Popes may have a different opinion, and only time will tell.

Dogma is not decided on by opinion. Future popes cannot change dogma. Besides, JPII made the declaration about the issue, not BXVI. And furthermore, because of the manner in which JPII made the statement, it was ex cathedra.

In Christ,
Rand

 

[Cathy]

Hi Greg72,
Are you sure the “debate” you are thinking of wasn’t about priestly celibacy? Dissenters often bring up priestly celibacy together with the idea of women priests. The rule about celibacy is highly unlikely to be changed, but technically possible. The ordination of women is impossible.

Could you please point out to me where that is?

I used to believe this, but then I heard someone on Catholic Answers Live say that it was possible (may have been on “Ask a Canon Lawyer”). The impression he gave is that it is almost certainly not going to happen, that a lot of other things would have to change first (things that can change, apparently), but that it was possible.

I wish I would have copied down the show info.

Note that I am not putting a guest on CA Live above the Pope - I am wondering whether or not JPII actually said that it was impossible for women to ever become Priests or if that’s how what he said was interpretted.

 

[Greg72]

Hi Greg72,
Are you sure the “debate” you are thinking of wasn’t about priestly celibacy?

I’m positive.

A co-worker of mine had been instructed (in a Catholic College) that, among other things, women could become Priests. I had spent quite a while explaining to her why this couldn’t be so (and why it wasn’t in the past, regardless of what her teacher taught) and shortly thereafter I caught that show. I then told her that I was wrong and that I’d have to look into how the change could come about. Now I’ll have to tell her that my initial belief was right - so she’ll likely think that I don’t really know what the hell I’m talking about since it seems to change from day-to-day, whereas her feminist teacher, whose beliefs are unchanging, does.

It’s disappointing to me because I have learned a lot from CA Live and trusted it entirely. There is a chance that it was an archived show that I downloaded to learn more about the subject and perhaps it was recorded before JPII’s statement. Otherwise, I don’t understand how the show made it on the air unchallenged.

Dissenters often bring up priestly celibacy together with the idea of women priests.

That’s true.
They, no doubt, see both as progressive and wonder why the protestants are so far ahead of us.

The rule about celibacy is highly unlikely to be changed, but technically possible. The ordination of women is impossible.

A huge difference - and one that I’m glad to be aware of (again

 

[KathleenElsie]

It is only over while we are in the Papacy of BXVI. Future Popes may have a different opinion, and only time will tell.

No wiggle room here.

Wherefore, in order that all doubt may be removed regarding a matter of great importance, a matter which pertains to the Church’s divine constitution itself, in virtue of my ministry of confirming the brethren (cf. Lk 22:32) I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church’s faithful.
Invoking an abundance of divine assistance upon you, venerable brothers, and upon all the faithful, I impart my apostolic blessing.
*From the Vatican, on May 22, the Solemnity of Pentecost, in the year 1994, the sixteenth of my Pontificate. *

 

[Marsha_Adams]

It is only over while we are in the Papacy of BXVI. Future Popes may have a different opinion, and only time will tell.

One Pope cannot reverse the infallible pronouncements of a previous Pope.

 

[Riley259]

Wherefore, in order that all doubt may be removed regarding a matter of great importance, a matter which pertains to the Church’s divine constitution itself, in virtue of my ministry of confirming the brethren (cf. Lk 22:32) I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church’s faithful.
Invoking an abundance of divine assistance upon you, venerable brothers, and upon all the faithful, I impart my apostolic blessing.
*From the Vatican, on May 22, the Solemnity of Pentecost, in the year 1994, the sixteenth of my Pontificate. *

Amen.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Bizarre - they may be persecuted but at least in the Anglican Church they can BE priests

You are correct in the Catholic church they are just lay people, in their old community they could at least publicly pretend to be priests.

 

[thomasf]

vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_letters/documents/hf_jp-ii_apl_22051994_ordinatio-sacerdotalis_en.html

This link should take you to John Paul II’s document prohibiting the ordination of women.

I gotta say, that’s a pretty powerful and sound document. Thanks for the link.

 

[Sheeniac]

It is only over while we are in the Papacy of BXVI. Future Popes may have a different opinion, and only time will tell.

It was presented as doctrine, and linked to V2 documents. As you may know, doctrine and dogma do not change.

 

[Ignatius]

They probably do a pretty good job in the Anglican Church. The discussion and debate are still ongoing in the Catholic Church.

:tsktsk: Debate about what? The issue of priestesses in the Catholic Church is closed. Pope John Paul II addressed the issue. The Catholic Church did not receive the authority to ordain women.
The Catholic Church never has and never will have priestesses.

Any attempt to do so would have the same effect as when I was a kid and pretended to consecrate communion.
The most you can ever accomplish is to pretend.

 

[otjm]

I remember that after John Paul II made the statement, Benedict XVI (then Cardinal Ratzinger of the Holy Office) went on to say that the Pope made the statement Infallibly. That pretty much says its a done deal.

Actually, I think Ratzinger answered a question as to whether or not JP2’s statement was ex cathedra; his answer was that it was not ex cathedra but was infallible in that it was part of the ordinary magisterial teachings of the Church going back to the Apostles - which is how man infallible statments are made; the fact that a pope articulates them does not make them ex cathedra statments.

Infallibility comes from one of three sources - the constant magisterial teaching of the Church, from a Council in which the Pope participates which enunciates an infallibile statement or which the pope later ratifies, and from an ex cathedra statement. Most theologians agree that there have been only two ex cathedra statements; the Immaculate Conception and the Assumption.

 

[otjm]

Dogma is not decided on by opinion. Future popes cannot change dogma. Besides, JPII made the declaration about the issue, not BXVI. And furthermore, because of the manner in which JPII made the statement, it was ex cathedra.

In Christ,
Rand

No it was not ex cathedra; and Cardinal Ratzinger specifically answered this issue. See above posts; it was part of the ordinary and universal teaching of the Church from the time of the Apostles.