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mmmtoasty
Guest
I dont understand why there are no women priests. Can women even become priets?
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trobinson017
Guest
First, let me say that that Christ Himself only appointed men as his apostles. He never conferred any authority to any woman, except his mother at the wedding in Cana by his honoring the 4th commandment. But that was not authority to administer the sacraments; all those were given to the 12 apostles (search the forums for details on that).
Secondly, this issue is no longer to be discussed by faithful Catholics per Pope John Paul II (the bold type is my emphasis):
Ordinatio Sacerdotalis, “On Reserving Priestly Ordination to Men”
May 22, 1994
Pope John Paul II says in this letter that, in granting admission to the ministerial priesthood, the church has always acknowledged as a perennial norm her Lord’s way of acting in choosing the 12 men whom he made the foundation of his church. Because “in some places” women’s ordination is thought to be still open to debate or that the “Church’s judgment” on the matter has merely a “disciplinary force,” Pope John Paul declares **“that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church’s faithful.” **Pope John Paul says that “the fact the Blessed Virgin Mary… received neither the mission proper to the apostles nor the ministerial priesthood clearly shows that the nonadmission of women to priestly ordination cannot mean that women are of lesser dignity, nor can it be construed as discrimination against them.”
My words:
This is a issue of obedience to the Magisterium. To even bring it up for discussion is disobedience to the Church. It is our duty to accept it without questioning. Please pass this along to any Catholic friends, parishioners, etc. who bring it up.
Pax Christi,
trob
Secondly, this issue is no longer to be discussed by faithful Catholics per Pope John Paul II (the bold type is my emphasis):
Ordinatio Sacerdotalis, “On Reserving Priestly Ordination to Men”
May 22, 1994
Pope John Paul II says in this letter that, in granting admission to the ministerial priesthood, the church has always acknowledged as a perennial norm her Lord’s way of acting in choosing the 12 men whom he made the foundation of his church. Because “in some places” women’s ordination is thought to be still open to debate or that the “Church’s judgment” on the matter has merely a “disciplinary force,” Pope John Paul declares **“that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church’s faithful.” **Pope John Paul says that “the fact the Blessed Virgin Mary… received neither the mission proper to the apostles nor the ministerial priesthood clearly shows that the nonadmission of women to priestly ordination cannot mean that women are of lesser dignity, nor can it be construed as discrimination against them.”
My words:
This is a issue of obedience to the Magisterium. To even bring it up for discussion is disobedience to the Church. It is our duty to accept it without questioning. Please pass this along to any Catholic friends, parishioners, etc. who bring it up.
Pax Christi,
trob
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1ke
Guest
No. It is not possible to ordain women.
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jkarp
Guest
Please note that I preface this response in no way disagreeing with your post
with regard to the specific question of women priests.The very act of inquiry is considered disobedience? It is my understanding that this is untrue. Asking for or seeking more information or clarification so one can gain a deeper understanding of a subject can not be considered a disobedient act. Further, it is important for one to differentiate between “dissent” and “withholding assent.” It is perfectly reasonable for one to withhold assent to a particular teaching while trying to bring one’s self to a deeper understanding of the teaching. It is entirely another to actively dissent from a teaching (this would be considered disobedience).
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Scott6003
Guest
Women can’t become priests. I think that is a outdated rule and it should be changed. With all of the equal rights, women rights etc; you would think by now a women would be able to become a priest. It is only a matter of time till it is changed.
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CollegeKid
Guest
Scott, with respect, and as a believing Catholic, I disagree with you. For one thing, the twentieth century is not the first time the topic of ordaining women has come up in the Church and been rejected as impossible in light of the nature of the Church’s divine constitution. The Early Church also faced this debate on more than one occasion, with certain heretical sects (gnostics I believe being one, but I could be mistaken) “ordaining” women on their own initiative. Some important things to keep in mind-not a single one of the 12 Apostles were women. All were men. There are other reasons, stemming from and tied in with this exposition which the Church has traditionally looked to and stated that because of, ordaining women is contradictory to the infallible teachings of the Church. These include that as the priest is acting “in the person of Christ,” part of which includes the symbolic role which necessitates a male, as Christ was male, but also includes acting in the husbandly role of Christ to the Church, which obviously a woman cannot carry out, because of these reasons among others; to try and ordain a woman to the the priesthood would be to try to have a sacrament using invalid matter. Therefore, it would be impossible.
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Rolltide
Guest
The prohibition on women priests has been a constant teaching of the church since day one. Constant teachings of any kind (in other words, teachings that can be traced back to the early church) are generally considered to be doctrines and unchangeable. Even if the pope wanted to change the rule, he is forbidden from doing so. It falls in the same category of required belief for Catholics as the Trinity, Immaculate Conception, and so on. This is not a comment on whether or not women would actually function well as priests or not. I’m simply stating that according to Catholic belief, it is not even within the power of the Catholic Church to change this teaching.
As an interesting side note, the belief in a celibate priesthood is only a discipline, not a doctrine, and as such, that COULD be changed at any time. Many Protestants aren’t aware that the Eastern branches of the Catholic Church allow for married priests, and even in the Latin branch, there are some married priest, usually former Protestant ministers that convert. They are permitted on rare occasions on a case-by-case basis.
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CollegeKid
Guest
First off, please know that I agree with you that Pope John Paul II’s Ordinatio Sacerdotalis and the Church’s infallible ordinary magisterium, observed since the birth of the Church 2000 years ago, make it clear the women’s ordination is impossible, in fact, the very idea is a contradiction in and of itself according to irreformable Catholic teaching.
However, I think that to extrapolate from JP II’s encyclical that the faithful are not even allowed to ask about the matter in order to better understand their faith is a serious mistake.
First off, we can’t assume that by asking about a matter of faith the person doesn’t assent to it or is trying to foment dissent to it among other members of the faithful, if we never questioned our faith (while maintaining it at the same time), we’d never grow in it.
If it were the case that mere discussion of this was a sin, then our providing answers to this person is also a sin, which wouldn’t make much sense, because if we didn’t answer them then they’d probably just assume there were no good answers and become Episcopalien (exaggerating, no offense to the OP, just trying to make a point).
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Maynoothman
Guest
That is symptematic of a flaw in contemporary society which mistakenly asserts that men and women are equal in all things. Thats not true. The concept of mutuality makes that very clear. This is not just because of the magisterium Scott cause ya dont seem to place much faith in it, and if you dont thats your personal choice and opinion which you are entitled to. The concept of mutuality and interdependence stresses that men and women are not equal, both can do things individually and collectively that men cannot. With the rush to assert that men and women are the same feminists are doing themselves a diservice and are losing out.
I think post Vatican II the laity has rightly gotten more involved in teh church, and this has included women.
Men cannot know the spiritual upliftedness that is carrying life, and in this way women may be closer to God than we men may know and may only quess at. This conversely is the reason that women cannot be priests, because if they were to be ordained they would not be allowed to have children and so would be missing out.
(And btw no they couldnt get married and have kids for the same reason that priests cannot, they are meant to be more concerned for the entirity of their flock and if they were to have children then these would, obviously and understandably, take precedence.)
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Charlie_Zeaiter
Guest
I’d rather be a bad Catholic than a dumb Catholic. Well, I’m probably still dumb, but I’ll ask questions because that’s what intelligence requires.
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Charlie_Zeaiter
Guest
Pope Paul VI wrote a fine piece in his Papal Encyclical, Inter Insigniores;
Basically, the Church is The Bride and the Priest becomes a Groom to The Church. A woman can’t become a Groom.
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love4mary
Guest
Speaking as a woman,I sincerely hope Never to see women priests in my time.
But then again,I believe that…
Boy Scouts are for BOYS only
Girl Scouts are for GIRLS only
so on and so on.
Jesus had many faithful women at His side through-out His ministry, He loved women and respected them enough to allow a Woman to be the first to see His risen glory, but He never appointed them to be Shepard’s of His flock. Why?, only He knows the answer to that, but it is enough that we follow His example.
But then again,I believe that…
Boy Scouts are for BOYS only
Girl Scouts are for GIRLS only
so on and so on.
Jesus had many faithful women at His side through-out His ministry, He loved women and respected them enough to allow a Woman to be the first to see His risen glory, but He never appointed them to be Shepard’s of His flock. Why?, only He knows the answer to that, but it is enough that we follow His example.
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LRThunder
Guest
Doctrine cannot be changed. End of story.
The Church cannot concern itself with what goes on in society. Society is not supposed to transform the Church, but rather the Church is supposed to transform society.
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Spiller
Guest
Impossible. Ref. Ordinatio Sacerdotalis.
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Spiller
Guest
Doctrine most certainly can change – and does.
The male-only ordained priesthood is far more. It’s part of the dogmatic deposit of the Church’s faith. It cannot change.
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JimR-OCDS
Guest
The major theological reason why women can not be ordained, has to do with the Mass. At the moment of the consecration, the priest becomes Christ. Christ is a male, and man can not change, what Christ is.
Also, and this is merely my personal opinion, women by nature could not handle the loneliness that the priesthood entails. Women in general, need other people, a spouse or other women, to share their emotional feelings and thoughts with. The priesthood does not provide this dimension.
Jim
Also, and this is merely my personal opinion, women by nature could not handle the loneliness that the priesthood entails. Women in general, need other people, a spouse or other women, to share their emotional feelings and thoughts with. The priesthood does not provide this dimension.
Jim
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scylla
Guest
That is pretty much it, you hit the nail on the head, since the Priest stands in the person of Christ for the Mass, (and absolution, etc) to change that, is to misrepresent Christ and the incarnation.
It is to essentially reject the incarnation of Christ as a man and to misrepresent Christ, which is a rejection of the Catholic faith.
A less horrible thing to do would be to represent the Blessed Mother as a man, just put a man in drag and have him pretend to be the Blessed Mother. As most people would see that as abhorrent and evil, remember that is less of an evil than misrepresenting God.
It is not about womens rights or mens rights it is about putting God first then seeking as people how to best serve God, not our own cultural desires to all be a “part of the show” (inclusion).
Just because we all want to do something doesn’t make it right, the Church is not a Hollywood show where we do what we want, but where people submit their actions to humility, the truth of God.
God Bless
Scylla
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trobinson017
Guest
I agree that I worded that statement incorrectly. What I should have said is that to bring it up as a dispute or debate is disobedience. I did not mean to imply that simply studying the issue or inquiring about it for further understanding would be disobedient although after reading it again I see that it leads one to think that. We had a group at church many years back that went head-to-head with our pastor after he mentioned from the pulpit that women should be priests. At that time we had a direct quote from Pope JPII stating that it was disobedience to discuss it. He made no distinction between simple inquiry for understanding or debating. I will see if I can find that quote online now that the internet is so much larger. But again, I agree that to ask about it to further understand the “why” is acceptable as long as it brings you to complete obedience to the Magisterium on the subject.
trob
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Cristiano
Guest
Doctrine (as in teachings of the Church) does include dogmas and disciplines. Dogmas will never change; however disciplines can.
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Joan_M
Guest
Untrue. Doctrine does NOT include disciplines. Neither Doctrine nor Dogma can change. Disciplines can.
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