Women Wearing Men's Neckties

[Tis_Bearself]

Do you see there being anything wrong (employing whatever criteria you wish) with this?

Nope. Wore them a few times myself when young. Stopped mostly because I decided my bust was too big for them to look good on me. I have seen ladies with less bosom on whom the ties look good IMHO.

Okay, so it’s not Catholic doctrine that women are encouraged to be more feminine, especially at this moment in time?

No. You need to get out and meet Catholic women, not go by what some random person posts on a blog. The Church doesn’t care if I wear man’s suits all day long as long as I don’t try to change my sex to male.

 

[Neithan]

Oh. That has already come and gone. Is it immodest for women to wear pants?

Do women wear pants to compete with men?

 

[Neithan]

The Church doesn’t care if I wear man’s suits all day long as long as I don’t try to change my sex to male.

On that note: Crossdressing a sin?

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I have seen cross-dressed men at church. They were dressed modestly. If their clothing was sinful I presume the priest would have thrown them out.

However, the OP doesn’t seem to be discussing cross dressing.

 

[Elf01]

All too often we get hung up in the outer trappings, so some would say a woman who wears maxi-skirts 24/7 is more feminine than the woman who wears jeans. The only thing the Church really teaches about clothing is modesty, and that is not confined to wearing un–sexually provocative clothing but encompasses wearing what is appropriate for the situation: to wear a diamond tiara to volunteer at a school picnic in order to show off one’s wealth would violate modesty as well.

I don’t hear it applied to clothes. I do hear it in terms of emasculating men, i.e. men should be protectors and providers and women shouldn’t take that role. I still think it’s wrong.

 

[Annie]

I don’t hear it applied to clothes. I do hear it in terms of emasculating men, i.e. men should be protectors and providers and women shouldn’t take that role. I still think it’s wrong.

Well, it’s been a long time since I followed a modesty thread all the way through so I haven’t seen the point you bring up being under modesty.

In the area of what husbands and wives do, I am live and let live. I don’t think the Church really cares about it much either, just certain Catholics.

 

[Elf01]

Well, it’s been a long time since I followed a modesty thread all the way through so I haven’t seen the point you bring up being under modesty.

Not on a modesty thread. This comes from radio shows and I felt it may be what the OP was referring to - or part of it, so I addressed it.

 

[Annie]

Oh, now I understand, sorry about that! I don’t listen much to the radio!

 

[chevalier]

Women wearing men’s neckties

It had been done decades before, apparently without causing much uproar in conservative circles, similarly to male-style haircuts.

If you really wanted my subjective opinion, I would be somewhat torn. In some cases women wearing men’s suits and ties simply look very professional and not wanting to attract attention to their female sex or female charms, which frankly is a good thing at the workplace — the last thing a workplace needs is the usual mating ground that quickly turns into a proving ground for males or females to do battle to determine relative rank for the purposes of priority in having one’s pick of the opposite sex. Or rivalry between the sexes, along with backlash by those whose advances have been spurned.

Personally, I kind of prefer actual man attire to those man-style suits that incorporate elements such as large cleave into a woman’s ‘pant suit’ loosely inspired by men’s fashions.

In some ways sometimes either traditional women’s outfits or the direct wearing of actual men’s fashion by women is preferable to hybrid styles. But not always — not all hybrids are bad. Another point is that a woman choosing to wear men’s fashion is simply a woman dressed in a man’s clothes, it’s not changing women’s fashion.

I’m generally supportive of professionals who want to divert the focus away from their sex. What I don’t like is the kind of gender confusion that would be close to transvestitism done for sexual or identity-related reasons, or as if advancing the mistaken proposition that it is possible to be a generic human neither male nor female. (While it’s a different thing that people sometimes choose to be asexual at the workplace, which is not advancing an ideological/anthropological proposition.)

 

[chevalier]

I hesitated to bring this point up, but for the benefit of those female readers who don’t want to be asexual at the workplace, don’t want their sex to be ignored, don’t want to not be asked out by men, etc., especially if they actually hope to be asked out, hope to find a date and in the long term a husband among coworkers, clients, etc.:

Straight men aren’t really attracted to women acting like the copy of a man — not any more than straight women could be attracted to a man is just like another woman.

For the same reason that we are not attracted to a biological male, we can be less attracted to a female that emulates a male. And I’m not talking about lumberjack/garage girls in flanel shirts or members of uniformed services, I’m talking about women trying to be men in their everyday lives, as in really stepping into the male identity rather than just being ‘one of the guys’.

My point is not to bash — I would be the farthest from it — but to convey the information about the possible consequences that one might be ignoring while making the choice, due to the fact that most men these days will be too polite and considerate or too intimidated by political correctness to betray their true sentiment about what attracts them and what does not. By contrast, I believe it’s more helpful to actually provide true information and allow the recipient to adapt than to dull the recipient’s awareness and rob the recipient of the opportunity to adapt to the truth. Hence I’m more inclined to offer difficult truths than comforting falsehoods.

A woman can still have plenty of reasons that are more important than how men feel/react (e.g. need to avoid male attention in her line of work), but if men’s natural reactions are an important factor, then see above to get a picture of how that’s going to turn out — which is just pretty much the same as a straight woman would react to a man being too similar to another female. There should be no surprise that this works both ways and that men are not somehow more resistant to it than women are.

 

[EmilyAlexandra]

No clear blueprint on femininity at all. Just don’t sin, practise virtue and be yourself while you’re at it

Okay, thanks. I was thinking that if I were to become a Catholic (I am really just trying to find out more at this stage), perhaps there would be an expectation that I would have to somehow make myself especially feminine or something.

You will find some people have definite opinions on what they think women should wear and have no reservation sharing it. Just keep in mind that it’s their opinion …nothing more.

Okay, so it’s just personal opinion. For example, in Britain (I don’t know where you are from), there is a “rule” that one should never wear brown shoes in London. It’s a crazy rule, and you will find very few people who even know about it, let alone adhere to it. Another such “rule” is that men shouldn’t wear white shirts except as part of a uniform or for evening dress or to attend a funeral. Some people also think it’s “wrong” for shirts to have pockets. But if somebody who was, say, an Anglican were to say that you cannot wear brown shoes or a white shirt or a shirt with a pocket, that would be there personal opinion, not an Anglican doctrine. The way the post was written made it sound to me like there was some relationship between that person’s preference for femininity in women and being Catholic.

There are classically “feminine” virtues such as compassion, mercy, kindness, gentleness etc. But everyone is meant to practice these.

Yes, my husband would tick all those boxes, and I would not think of him as being feminine really.

There are those who want an idealized form of the Church in the 1950s back. Don’t be fooled by them! There are reasons why they are not thinking straight.

Okay, thanks, I’ll consider myself warned.

 

[Buks]

I don’t think there was any outcry at Annie Lennox a few decades ago, so at this point you’d think the common response would be indifference. But maybe not. We look for problems now. And knowing that, we also try to provoke.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Straight men aren’t really attracted to women acting like the copy of a man

1. Way to generalize. You don’t speak for every “straight man” on earth.
2. A woman wearing a man’s necktie or even men’s clothing isn’t necessarily “acting like the copy of a man” . Marlena Dietrich, or Diane Keaton in “Annie Hall”, come to my mind.
3. In addition, people have all different ideas about what constitutes “acting like a man” and one person’s opinion doesn’t necessarily match the next person’s.
4. Many women, me included, have done just fine fitting into male-dominated workplaces and meeting men to date and marry, without needing this sort of “advice”.
5. I would also note that a lot of us are at work to do work, not to meet guys. If we happen to meet someone there fine, but most women are not at work to “catch a husband” and in some workplaces, dating is even strongly discouraged or can lead to very bad outcomes.

I think you should just continue to “hesitate” and not bring this sort of thing up, to be honest. It’s borderline offensive.

 

[Elf01]

Many women, me included, have done just fine fitting into male-dominated workplaces and meeting men to date and marry, without needing this sort of “advice”.

And you met your husband at work (in other words, you were dressed as you would for work in a male dominated workplace when you met).

 

[Tis_Bearself]

And you met your husband at work (in other words, you were dressed as you would for work in a male dominated workplace when you met).

Yes, I did happen to meet and date two guys from work, one of whom I married.

I wore a variety of outfits during my years at work. It depended on whether I was in the office or testing big heavy equipment in grubby labs. However, my husband was clearly attracted to me as a person, and treated me the same whether I wore a flowery flowing dress, or jeans, or coveralls as I did for some years working in an auto engine test lab.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

Should men wear lace and ruffles?

In the past, men HAVE worn lace and ruffles in abundance, along with curly wigs. The first President of the United States often dressed like this. Was HE unmasculine?

I was a teenager in the 1970s, and for a brief time, men were wearing ruffles, especially on their sleeves–to this day, I love the look and wish it would return. To me, a man wearing a shirt with lacy ruffles is the ultimate romantic look!

Two words: puffy shirt. (As in the episode of Seinfeld.)

Many types of vestments have lace on them. Is that feminine?

And my wife once upon a time would wear a necktie to work, loosely knotted. With Tweety Bird on it, no less. She’s always managed to keep a fairly good job, so obviously it didn’t interfere with her career aspirations.

 

[twf]

Some CAFers seem to think that any man who doesn’t conform to the John Wayne type is “feminine”. This, sadly, would condemn the vast majority of male saints as “feminine” for one reason or another. Lace and puffs being one part of that!

 

[Elf01]

Some CAFers seem to think that any man who doesn’t conform to the John Wayne type is “feminine”. This, sadly, would condemn the vast majority of male saints as “feminine” for one reason or another. Lace and puffs being one part of that!

Not to mention the implication that femininity is a bad thing. I suspect that is a large part of why abortion is legal. A womans role was seen (and still is by some), as having and raising children and men were seen as better so women rejected their perceived roles.

 

[meltzerboy2]

I remember there was once a cooking show on cable in which a man, apparently a crossdresser, would wear a diamond tiara and sparkling gown while cooking eggs. I found it hysterical, not so much for the crossdressing, but because he felt it necessary to wear such formal attire while cooking. Maybe to boost ratings?

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I hope he didn’t accidentally melt his sequins over the hot stove.