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RosalieM
Guest
Thank you for this.
I’m one of the “people who simply never found the right person …” and it’s so very true that sex is a temptation, but not a necessity for many of us who live without sex. I could say it gets easier; but one must never be complacent with the idea of resisting temptation and one must be vigilant and avoid self-pity. It ain’t easy.
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AngryAtheist8
Guest
Not really (at least as far as I am concerned).
Islam becomes a lot more understandable once you accept the premise that it was created by men, for the benefit of men (and not women)
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AngryAtheist8
Guest
I have trouble accepting a religious tradition with rules for how to sell your daughter into slavery or when its appropriate to kill a woman (but not a man) for not being a virgin as anything but misogynistic.Why
For the same reason that you would want to go to evolutionary scientist to learn about evolution more than you would want to go to the creationist. It is not as if either does not have an agenda, but the evolutionist lives and breathes and drinks and poops evolution. They read every article, and think deeply on the subject, and immerse themselves into the minutiae to an extent that evolution’s greatest critics never would. It is their life. Torah is the life of the rabbis to the exact same extent.
You seem to be interested in the Old Testament, as you are continually referring to it, so why not at least refer to the people that have studied the Abrahamic traditions from the inside out, rather than those who hardly even touch the book other than to cut and paste its supposed shortcomings.
Like young earth creationists normally only deal with the science in as superficial a manner as possible, so too do secularists treat the Bible and the “Abrahamic faiths”.
So lets look at the Abrahmic faith then. In terms of Abraham himself, this means that not only did God forewarn him in a dream about the path that Sarah was leading him on when she treated Egyptian Hagar as just so much chattel. Moreover, when Sarah puts her lowly ‘female incubator’ l under her thumb like so much chattel, so to did the Egyptians put Sarah’s progeny under their thumbs, like so much chattel, to let them understand the world from the point of view of the Egyptian chattel, Hagar.
This point made by God to those who actually study the Abrahamic faith was not even subtle. 400 years of slavery and oppression later, it was driven home with an iron fist.
“You want to treat my girl Hagar as chattel? Fine then. The lowly will be raised and the high and the mighty will be humbled. That is your ‘Abrahamic’ justice, my dears”.
The radical feminists won’t teach you this. Their understanding is as common as mud, widely accepted as true, but no less supericial on that account. Even Christianity, which is more interested in OT fulfillment through Christ (in whom the whole of the Abrahamic code of law is contained) than the intricacies of the Hebraic code of law and ethics, glide over these kind of messages as often as not.
**But for the rabbis, this is their life’s passion. This is their lives work. This is what keeps them up at night.
Sure they are biased. **
But they do know their stuff, and there is nothing superficial in the least in the way that they go into the finest detail of that stuff.
That is why.
Moreover, under your logic the best person to go for something like an fair protrayal of Scientology or Mormonism would be a Scientologist or Mormon
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PRmerger
Guest
I think this is quite a trenchant point.What happened to the thought that only a very small minority of Muslims are fanatic and the majority are just like us and laugh, love and just want to live peaceably?
Oftentimes it is the hidebound fanatic minority who vociferously make their views known–like those who oppose female altar servers on the grounds that “boys who might be priests don’t want to serve now because girls are”–and make a black mark on the rest of us folks who just want tl laugh and love and live peaceably.
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GaryTaylor
Guest
Basically what it seems to be promoting today. Seems to be collection of women for self-satisfaction, not different than boys collecting toys, or animals or whatever.Not really (at least as far as I am concerned).
Islam becomes a lot more understandable once you accept the premise that it was created by men, for the benefit of men (and not women)
Of course the claim is…“All muslims are not like that”. I know we get that point. My response is, whats the percentage breakdown, and, what are these good muslims who see women as their equal doing about this issue?
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GaryTaylor
Guest
Interesting post. If one cannot control themself, how do you propose they would control another?
IMHO living a chaste life, or in proverty is not as great of a challenge as obedience. There is the real obstacle.
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Darryl1958
Guest
Well I am sure you would have trouble selling your daughters into slavery, and I am just as sure you are clueless to what the context of those verses of female sex slaves are, in biblical times.I have trouble accepting a religious tradition with rules for how to sell your daughter into slavery or when its appropriate to kill a woman (but not a man) for not being a virgin as anything but misogynistic.
Moreover, under your logic the best person to go for something like an fair protrayal of Scientology or Mormonism would be a Scientologist or Mormon
Having received an understanding of what is really happening in those verses, rather than just accepting the ethnocentric feminist point of view, having taken the time to have the rabbis and biblical scholars give the context of those verses, and the social mobility from poor classes to the upper classes is involved in being groomed for marriage through this kind of institution, I again find the closed-mindedness of the typical atheist explanation laughable.
I am not being insulting, just blunt. Atheists who are good sources of information with their cut and paste method of textual criticism are rare in these forums, so such simplistic answers no longer interest me.
I am hardly evangelizing Judaism here, or Scientology or Mormonism, but without a basic understanding of what their reasons really are, no one is really in a position to criticize them in the first place. It is a rare believing Jew that would sell their daughters as sex slave either on the basis of such a “tradition”. Certainly they all would reject the strawmen that are being argued against here too.
I am perfectly capable of reaching such a simplistic explanation and reading the Bible according to my own modern biases as any secularist is . What do I know on my own, except for the plain meaning of the words? But I am also fully aware of how simplistic and uneducated that kind of methodology is in studying such a complex work as the Bible. There are layers upon layers of meaning in that spiritual work, and it deliberately sets up scenarios that are difficult and are meant to disturb the reader into finding a deeper meaning. The sacrifice of Isaac is but one glaring example of this.
But if I really want to know what is being written, I would rather confer with someone who actually knows a thing or two about the bible and the life and times being depicted therein.
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Darryl1958
Guest
Islamists tend to win elections in countries with Muslim majorities, such as what happened in Egypt a few days back.
Liberal parties capture maybe 20 % of the vote, and Islamic parties the rest.
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lnslucky
Guest
People in most of those countries are 2,000 years behind the current time. Don’t expect them to think too brightly.
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