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vern_humphrey
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After reading some of the things they say, I think you’re right.
As I said, even if we could ordain women, these women are exactly the sort of people who should not be ordained.
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As I said, even if we could ordain women, these women are exactly the sort of people who should not be ordained.
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sinningcatholic
Guest
I STAND CORRECTED. VERY GRATEFUL. TO YOU FOR YOUR BREAKDOWN TO DETAILS I HAD NOT CONSIDERED. God bless you. I understand your comment, and thank you. I do not judge same-sexl orientation, mostly because i don’t understand it. But i have nothing to comment on why God does things the way He does–Again, thank you for your (name removed by moderator)ut. AND I DO STAND CORRECTED. maureen
(Moderator note: use of the quote button http://70.85.23.3/images/buttons_cak/quote.gif will make your posts much more readable and understandable.)
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Aleii
Guest
Just because you personally haven’t heard about someone praying for women’s ordination doesn’t mean it does not exist, or, that they aren’t praying in their hearts for it, or, that they are a step below the general Catholic in their faith. The first 2 entries that I explored on the first search I made on yahoo (pray women ordination) were relevant to people praying for women’s ordination, and it appears others were when I skimmed down the list. Took me less than a minute to do, so prayer for this can’t be as rare as you claim. Thinking these women are misguided is one thing, thinking they are all just after power is quite another. How about giving people the benefit of the doubt?
sepawoc.org/
womensordination.org/pages/press4.htm
“We meet to discuss, plan and pray for women’s ordination to the priesthood”
“Let us pray that other Roman Catholic bishops will follow the prophetic actions taken Saturday. May they all find the courage and willingness to ordain women to priestly ministry.”
Would you apply this sentence to any issue, such as abortion (and therefore call for ceasing protests/demonstrations/demands to end it)?
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JimR-OCDS
Guest
The call for prayer is small and not heard in the general media.
In fact I have talked with a woman in my parish, who is part of one of these groups and when I asked about praying on the issue, her answer was, prayer would not change the minds of the male dominated hierarchy of the Church.
Comparing abortion to this issue is not the same thing. We’re talking about the change in Church Doctrine, not secular laws. The Church is guided and protected by the Holy Spirit. No other change in Church doctrine ever came about from protest. It came through Saints who lived their lives according to the gospel, in it’s fullest. St. Catherine of Sienna, St, Francis of Assisi, etc. However, they really didn’t change doctrine but rather, brought the church back to her original teachings.
I find it disturbing when I’ve seen women standing in protest during Mass, with their arm bans, in protest on issues of womans ordination, gay marriage. etc. These people seem to come from the same camp and they do not exhibit themselves as people of prayer, especially when they do such a thing during Mass.
Jim
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FCEGM
Guest
And God bless you, Maureen, for your humility - may we all imitate it here!
(I’m glad I could be of some help to you.
)
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sinningcatholic
Guest
Quote:And God bless you, Maureen, for your humility - may we all imitate it here!
Originally Posted by sinningcatholic
I STAND CORRECTED. VERY GRATEFUL. TO YOU FOR YOUR BREAKDOWN TO DETAILS I HAD NOT CONSIDERED. God bless you. I understand your comment, and thank you. I do not judge same-sexl orientation, mostly because i don’t understand it. But i have nothing to comment on why God does things the way He does–Again, thank you for your (name removed by moderator)ut. AND I DO STAND CORRECTED. maureen
(Moderator note: use of the quote button will make your posts much more readable and understandable.)
And God bless you, Maureen, for your humility - may we all imitate it here! (I’m glad I could be of some help to you. )
In Christ,
Frances
“I am a daughter of the Church.” St. Teresa of Jesus
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Maria, Senyora de Montserrat, Mare de Crist, pregueu per nosaltres.
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sinningcatholic
Guest
The world is so morally cold. i KNOW i am numb and lame in areas where i should be more educated. Humility is a blessing and grace==so i cannot take responsibility for recognizing my error. I KNEW you were correct as soon as i started to read. God bless you, and always speak out. the world—at least the U.S. really needs truth. you happen to speak it well. love and gratitude BUT no credit for humility, maureen
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FCEGM
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{{{{{hugs}}}}}
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Grace_Angel
Guest
Who is this poster and where is he/she coming from?
The “actions taken on Sasturday” were not prophetic, they were uter disobedience. Another Edenic lie.
And your reference to abortion? totally satanic.
GraceAngel.
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a_cermak
Guest
To be honest, I’ve seen no good rational reason that women should be denied the priesthood other than the Catholic Church says so and she has the right to run her own business.
That’s it. I don’t buy the Christ never named any women Apostles argument. If we find alien life and preach to them and convert them will we deny them the priesthood because Christ never named any of their kind to the office?
I don’t buy the equality is not sameness argument because in my lifetime I have seen women become heads of states and all other manner of vocations that were once denied them.
I don’t buy the Bride and Groom symbolism because that symbolism is close to moribund. Symbolism only works when everyone knows what the symbols mean. Very few in the pews are aware of that one.
I do buy the Catholic Church having the right to run her own business and that the Catholic Church is a monarchy argument.
That’s it. I don’t buy the Christ never named any women Apostles argument. If we find alien life and preach to them and convert them will we deny them the priesthood because Christ never named any of their kind to the office?
I don’t buy the equality is not sameness argument because in my lifetime I have seen women become heads of states and all other manner of vocations that were once denied them.
I don’t buy the Bride and Groom symbolism because that symbolism is close to moribund. Symbolism only works when everyone knows what the symbols mean. Very few in the pews are aware of that one.
I do buy the Catholic Church having the right to run her own business and that the Catholic Church is a monarchy argument.
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francesco920
Guest
Why can’t women be ordained? Let’s see…
The Church has no authority to ordain women. This is why the Catholic Church (and the Eastern and Oriental Orthodox Churches) do not ordain women.
- Jesus (GOD the Son) did not choose women to be His Apostles.
- The Apostles did not ordain women as their successors.
- The successors of the Apostles have never ordained women.
- Both Tradition and Scripture condemn the practice.
The Church has no authority to ordain women. This is why the Catholic Church (and the Eastern and Oriental Orthodox Churches) do not ordain women.
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distracted
Guest
Probably the only way to find out if women are unsuited to the priesthood is to allow them to become priests… then compare them to males…(?)/ I don’t know, just a thought… But the thing is that the Church is never going to change on that issue… NEVER. I don’t know why people can’t accept that.Basically, but answering someone with “Your question is irrelevant” usually isn’t too effective.
To look at it pragmatically, yes, sure, a woman could do what priests do if you think of priests as protestant ministers. Women can write a homily, can read out of the missal, could help people with their problems etc. I don’t think anyone doubts this.
However, the pro-women’s ordination people and people who are just simply ignorant of the matter generally look at the issue on a very materialistic scope. Priesthood goes beyond the banal equality of action that exists between men and women.
It really gets at the point that everyone has a duty in their state of life. Priesthood is simply not a part of the duty in life of any woman throughout all of history, for all the reasons the Church has put forth.
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Grace_Angel
Guest
A-Cermak you dont have to buy anthing but the realit is what it is. I cant see oxygen in the room I am sitting in at the moment, but the reality is that its there. So its the same. I dont care if you dont believe the fact that Christ didnt call women to apostles, the reality is he didnt. fullstop.
And iIt is a bridge and bridegroom analogy. Christ is the Groom and the Church is the bride. You have women priests and yhou have liturgical lesbianism. Sorry cant be.
Grace Angel.
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Aleii
Guest
I think you are reading much much more into my post than I actually wrote!
I was responding to a JimR-OCDS who said that the group of people who want women ordained as priests never ask for prayers. I thought that that didn’t sound correct, and did a quick internet search and found evidence of people praying for this. I quoted the links to show that people are indeed praying for this, not to show that their beliefs are true or that I am for or against this. Just because someone has an opinion that is contrary to Catholic belief doesn’t mean I’ll just stand by when I think I see some misinformation. That is simply looking out for facts, not taking sides. Maybe I should have bolded the word “pray” to show that that was the only point of making those quotes.
In another thread a poster called Saddam an atheist. I posted evidence of him praying and talking about God. Just because I may post things that might happen to defend a group that disagrees with Catholicism, that doesn’t necessarily state anything about my position. I was trying to expand on what I thought was incomplete/incorrect information that another poster provided.
As for the abortion thing, I quoted JimR-OCDS who stated that the group wanting womens’ ordination would do better to pray for it than demonstrate. I wanted to know why he felt this was a tactic that should be used for them specifically, and if he would consider it to be more effective for other causes, such as abortion, to stop protests and to use that time to pray instead. JimR-OCDS responded with a reasonable answer to my question of why he felt prayer is more effective with this group’s particular issue, and an expansion about why his experiences with a group in favor of womens’ ordination was disturbing.
As to the first portion of my post, I think all people should be looked at on a case by case basis. Just because someone has an idea that contradicts the Catholic faith, that doesn’t automatically make them evil, low in faith, or having bad motives, but perhaps just misguided. Just a call to treat those in the minority with compassion too. Besides this first portion of my post I felt that the rest of my post was pretty neutral and just pointing out things that were there, not making a statement about them.
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Grace_Angel
Guest
Excuse me you wrote the post the way you wrote the post, I didnt write it, and you did say that what the group did on saturday was prophetic. Hogwash. So dont play naive now.
Grace Angel.
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ComradeAndrei
Guest
That would only be true if we thought of the Priesthood like protestants think of their ministers or pastors. The priesthood is much more than a functionary position of some layman being voted in or chosen by his church to preside for the community. The Catholic Priest is chosen by Christ to be reconfigured to Himself, to act in persona Christi. So, through the authority of God and His Church women cannot be priests and that will never change as you rightly say.
Arguments don’t have to “make sense” to everyone nor do we have to convince everyone that the Church is right. Christ did not become Incarnate amongst the Greeks or Romans so He could hash it out with the best philosophical minds. Christ Himself didn’t bicker and argue with everyone to get them to agree with Him-He knew He was the Truth and that those who will accept the Truth will accept it and that those who will not, will not.
That’s a huge “if” that is irrelevant for the question. What if we find that monkeys are more intelligent than we though? What if we find Bigfoot? What if, what if, what if?
But, women aren’t even a different species, and thus the alien thing is irrelevant.
Priesthood does not equal head of state or CEO. A cardinal could be a prince, but it doesn’t follow that therefore the prince can be a cardinal.
Then they need to brush up on their Catechism.
That’s good, take it a step further that the Church is not only a temporal business or kingdom but is indeed the Mystical Body of Christ and you are on your way to getting the other arguments.
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Aleii
Guest
I personally never said that the ordination was prophetic; the womensordination website did and I quoted them only to show that they were praying. That was the major topic of my post, whether or not they were praying. I personally wasn’t saying what the group did on Saturday was prophetic! (Please show me anywhere that I did.) I did not comment on what the quotes had to say except to say that they show a call for prayer. Is wondering whether or not I was quoting someone else where the confusion lies? I put the sentences in quote marks after their website and discussed where these links came from and gave the exact search engine quote to get these random links. Not sure how to make it clearer that the prophetic quote is not my words and does not constitute an endorsement.
**Please point out to me any sentence I wrote which states that I personally agree with the content of that second quote (quote from other website reads: let us pray that other Roman Catholic bishopes will follow the prophetic actions taken Saturday). Pasting a quote from a website does not show that I agree with it. ** I don’t understand why you have this tone with me.
Even if I did say I was for it(which I didn’t. In fact, I talk about these people being misguided so I am confused why you are confused), we are supposed to be debating ideas not people.
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Aleii
Guest
Ok, here is my original post, rewritten/shortened/reformatted, if that makes what I am trying to say more understandable.
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Jim, you state that you never hear the womens ordination group praying. I did a quick internet search and found evidence to the contrary. Just because someone may be misguided doesn’t mean they are evil people. Here’s the first two links from my search and their relevant quotes which show that these people do call for prayer.
The following is a quote from website: sepawoc.org/ : “We meet to discuss, plan and pray for women’s ordination to the priesthood”
The following is a quote from website: womensordination.org/pages/press4.htm : “Let us pray that other Roman Catholic bishops will follow the prophetic actions taken Saturday. May they all find the courage and willingness to ordain women to priestly ministry.”
Those above two quotes show that these groups pray.
Jim, would you say that prayer should be the only tactic used by all groups fighting for their issue?
edit: if you have issue with the content of the second quote, you need to direct those issues to the author of that quote, not to me personally.
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contramundum7
Guest
Don’t you believe in having FAITH?? Why should we always understand everything? I don’t have a problem with the Church not allowing women into the priesthood because the Church says it shouldn’t be that way. I trust the Church because it was established by Christ. I know this because i’ve studied history (& the Bible, etc.). Everything Catholic can be found in scripture (virtually): confession (John 20:19), Purgatory (Matthew 12:32, Matthew 18:23, 1 Cor. 3:15). Its either Christ’s Church or it isn’t. Spending time at the Blessed Sacrament proves it to me, if nothing else.A-Cermak you dont have to buy anthing but the realit is what it is. I cant see oxygen in the room I am sitting in at the moment, but the reality is that its there. So its the same. I dont care if you dont believe the fact that Christ didnt call women to apostles, the reality is he didnt. fullstop.
And iIt is a bridge and bridegroom analogy. Christ is the Groom and the Church is the bride. You have women priests and yhou have liturgical lesbianism. Sorry cant be.
Grace Angel.
women r equal in the eyes of God. they may never be “equal” in the eyes of man. But then, blacks may never really be seen as equal either… Christians are supposed to take up their cross and carry it, not expect for this world to be perfect.
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JimR-OCDS
Guest
I don’t know if this has been posted but my understanding is that women can not be ordained to the priesthood is that in the consecration of the Holy Eucharist, the priest becomes Christ on the altar. Christ was a male, thereby requiring the priest to be a male, which is why Pope John Paul II said it was impossible to allow women to be ordained.
Jim
Jim
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