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estesbob
Guest
I can tell you how to avoid failure 90% of the time.
Finish high school
Don’t have children until you are married
don’t use drugs or alcohol to excess
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Finish high school
Don’t have children until you are married
don’t use drugs or alcohol to excess
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Lochias
Guest
Nope. It’s to point that that what affects one person affects us all, that no man exists as an island, and that many people need to get the hell off of their high horses and see the poor as people, not as failures.
I’m done with this thread. Ya’ll can sit in judgement all you’d like, just remember that Someone higher than you will be doing the same.
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SamH
Guest
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estesbob
Guest
Generally it is used to justify higher taxes on the so-called rich. I will readily admit that I am not entirely responsible for my own “success”. In fact it is almost entirely due to my parents. No, they didn’t give me any money- what they did give me was our Catholic faith and a good work ethic. Interestingly enough I have four siblings and every one of them is what would be considered a “success”. And every one of them attributes it to the upbringing our parents gave us.
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SamH
Guest
So you shouldn’t judge your own actions?
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SamH
Guest
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St_Francis
Guest
Hard work alone is not a determiner of who will get ahead, nor is hard work the sole determiner of whom one wants to get ahead.
There has to be more than a willingness to work hard–there also has to be a willingness to work smart, to work extra, to put oneself out to help. There also has to be lots of intelligence and other mental abilities to be able to perform jobs like that. There has to be the drive that pushes a person to set aside a lot of other aspects of life.
And yes, one can be a person with all that who does not become CEO of a transnational corporation, because there are very few positions at that level.
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estesbob
Guest
What does seeing the poor as people possibly have to do with whether Walmart should pay higher wages than the job justifies?
The government has done a miserable job of helping the poor, especially minorities. The idea that the solution is to force people to pay higher prices to support unreasonable wages while at the same time raising taxes on the people providing jobs is specious. It doesn’t work now, it hasn’t worked in the past and it never will work.
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stinkcat_14
Guest
I can see the argument that you are not wholly responsible for your success in other countries but less so here. I spent a couple of weeks in a less developed country where my driver made about $200/month and I am not sure how he ever gets his income much higher. He has little opportunity for education and a much weaker economy.
But in the US, we have community colleges all over the place. If I lost my job I could get retrained for something else in very little time and at little cost. So there are plenty of ways to be prepared. And plenty of opportunities. For example, I have a client who needs to hire a frame technician for his auto body business. He pays something around $25 per hour, not because he wants to, he’s cheap, but because he has to because that is the market rate.
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qui_est_ce
Guest
What is it with people reading in things that aren’t there.
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qui_est_ce
Guest
You cannot answer any of the posts here except to put your spin on what they are saying. Yet you are “done with this thread.”
No one has said poor people are failures. No one has said we shouldn’t help the poor.
All we have done is answer you why your “fixes” won’t work.
And how is giving a little advice about succeeding being “on a high horse.” Just about all of us who have responded to you work directly with the poor.
You have no business telling us we are being judgmental, when you are the biggest judger here yet.
"You don’t see poor people as persons"
**“You **don’t care about the poor.”
Ya’ll can sit in judgement all you’d like
What have you done for the poor lately? Or are the poor excused from this obligation?
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Dawnia
Guest
Some companies will train anyone willing to learn the trade. I know quite a few boys who have been going that route rather than even attending community college. They get paid to learn a career and are making good money.
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stinkcat_14
Guest
If you want to see where a living wage gets you, just look at the post office. There they have clerks who make $25 per hour and the organization is bankrupt. And of course the higher wages give people less of an incentive to upgrade their skills. I started out my working life as a janitor for minimum wage. It was a bad job for bad money, so how did I respond? By finishing school. Then I got a job at a state university where the janitors make $60k per year. None of them even take classes.
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qui_est_ce
Guest
Great example. And the taxpayers are paying these janitors $60,000.00/year. No wonder tuition is so out of reach for the average American.
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Lochias
Guest
You know nothing about me, or who I give to. I can barely keep food on the table, but I give anyway, directly into peoples’ hands. I can answer all day, but if people won’t listen, I can’t help that.
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qui_est_ce
Guest
All I know about you is what you have posted. I have not judged you in any way. I have asked you questions. Your answers usually put words in people’s mouths, instead of directly responding to the question.
I know you work hard and you have to support a family that has ill members. You have a degree but you can’t find a job with your specialty. I have already told you I was praying for you.
I personally give of my time and money to volunteer in a homeless shelter.
I work for less money than I could make on the market because I refuse to work for a big corporation that pays more and gives more benefits. That is my choice, and I have to accept the consequences of making less money. One of the consequences is that I work three jobs.
After I quit the corporate world, there were times when my children were still at home that I could barely put food on the table. But we managed with what we had. Every moment is a blessing.
I am actually lucky because I know every one of the jobs needs me and I feel appreciated.
I am lucky because I have the ability to do this.
I am lucky I have the time to do this.
Even more, God loves me and he loves you. He puts us in situations and we should learn from them.
You might think you ought to be paid more, but you do have a job.
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Lochias
Guest
After a while, it seems hopeless. People decry the system, and then decry attempts made to change the system. Those who struggle…and we all do, I know…can only take so much “oh, well, there’s help out there, you just have to go seize it” or “I worked three jobs, so you can, too!” before they just go numb from people not understanding the circumstances that they’re in, or not wanting to. Ultimately, these discussions seem fruitless; the poor will be poor. Jesus said we’d always have the poor with us, anyway.All I know about you is what you have posted. I have not judged you in any way. I have asked you questions. Your answers usually put words in people’s mouths, instead of directly responding to the question.
I know you work hard and you have to support a family that has ill members. You have a degree but you can’t find a job with your specialty. I have already told you I was praying for you.
I personally give of my time and money to volunteer in a homeless shelter.
I work for less money than I could make on the market because I refuse to work for a big corporation that pays more and gives more benefits. That is my choice, and I have to accept the consequences of making less money. One of the consequences is that I work three jobs.
After I quit the corporate world, there were times when my children were still at home that I could barely put food on the table. But we managed with what we had. Every moment is a blessing.
I am actually lucky because I know every one of the jobs needs me and I feel appreciated.
I am lucky because I have the ability to do this.
I am lucky I have the time to do this.
Even more, God loves me and he loves you. He puts us in situations and we should learn from them.
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october_baby
Guest
I want to tell you a little parable. There once was man, who came from a broken home, he did not do well in school dreaming of an army career, and his rural school did not offer school did
not offer vocational training. He joined the army and decided that the army was not for him.
since he got out early, he did not get his GI bill.( which he paid into.) So with his high school diploma he went to work at a fast food restaurant (the factory jobs were off the bus lines.)
While working this fast food job he noticed a few things; he was grateful for a job, but
the customers were rude,the customers expected a sit down restaurant experience for a fast food price,customers complained about the stupidest things,the pay was adequate
for a boarding house but inadequate for saving or living in better home,his bosses often take
advantage of the situation the man was in, and his managers had arbitrary control over him.
Well the years went by and the man took other jobs but mostly in fast food (because the majority of his experience was in fast food.) He made manager but it’s difficult to work your way into management because companies would rather hire college graduates than crew people.(did I mention that that this man did not want to go to college wanting to read on his own.) H/e also worked two jobs and worked 60-70 hours a week. Also most fast food places only worry about the bottom line rather than their employees.
While this man had a drinking problem, he no longer drinks. But getting a full time job under obama care with just a high school diploma is problematical at best.
This man has been a life long conservative, but what bothers this man, is that some segments of conservatism act like people who work fast food are stupid,lazy, and not ambitious. The fact of the matter is that we are all individuals coming from different mind
sets,attitudes, and life experiences. This person has not begrudged people who have
more money or better life experiences, but has noticed that these very same people
look at the problems of fast food though their own lense and attitudes and assumptions
We as catholics should remember “DO NOT JUDGE A MAN UNTIL YOU HAVE WALKED A MILE IN HIS SHOES.”.
not offer vocational training. He joined the army and decided that the army was not for him.
since he got out early, he did not get his GI bill.( which he paid into.) So with his high school diploma he went to work at a fast food restaurant (the factory jobs were off the bus lines.)
While working this fast food job he noticed a few things; he was grateful for a job, but
the customers were rude,the customers expected a sit down restaurant experience for a fast food price,customers complained about the stupidest things,the pay was adequate
for a boarding house but inadequate for saving or living in better home,his bosses often take
advantage of the situation the man was in, and his managers had arbitrary control over him.
Well the years went by and the man took other jobs but mostly in fast food (because the majority of his experience was in fast food.) He made manager but it’s difficult to work your way into management because companies would rather hire college graduates than crew people.(did I mention that that this man did not want to go to college wanting to read on his own.) H/e also worked two jobs and worked 60-70 hours a week. Also most fast food places only worry about the bottom line rather than their employees.
While this man had a drinking problem, he no longer drinks. But getting a full time job under obama care with just a high school diploma is problematical at best.
This man has been a life long conservative, but what bothers this man, is that some segments of conservatism act like people who work fast food are stupid,lazy, and not ambitious. The fact of the matter is that we are all individuals coming from different mind
sets,attitudes, and life experiences. This person has not begrudged people who have
more money or better life experiences, but has noticed that these very same people
look at the problems of fast food though their own lense and attitudes and assumptions
We as catholics should remember “DO NOT JUDGE A MAN UNTIL YOU HAVE WALKED A MILE IN HIS SHOES.”.
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Orogeny
Guest
Do we have your permission to judge a man after we have walked a mile in his shoes?
Peace
Tim
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october_baby
Guest
No need to get snarky, I capitalized for emphasis not to attack. My statement was meant to get people to think outside the box. BTW, how about addressing the substance of my post?
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