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thomfra
Guest
Out of interest. how many hours a day do you work.
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thomfra
Guest
So. What has it given you? The standard of living in western/northen europe is comparible if not higher. To what end are you working these hours?
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strngrnrth
Guest
We spend differently. The average officially-poor American has around as much floor space per person as the average European, period. We have much more fuel. We don’t spend on groceries and clothing as heavily but Americans eat out more, play more expensive sports and generally have more toys, e.g. fitness equipment and games. It’s hard to compare standards of living across countries.
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rlg94086
Guest
I agree. Personally, I see positives and negatives in both situations. However, both are too large to actually make fair generalizations. Are you going to compare the standard of living in Des Moines, Iowa to London, England? How about comparing standard of living between Arnhem, Netherlands to New York, New York.
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cynic
Guest
Some people think that doing one thing, all your waking moments is a miserable life, but if you’re working a 70 hour week for ths sake of your family, then I can understand that.
If your contracted to work a set number of hours, then to be obliged to consistently work beyond them is theft on the part of an employer.
Leisure time also includes time to meet friends, time to meet a potential marriage partner, time to simply see a different view. Begrudging this of people if the typical attitude of employers who want their staff to treat their jobs as if it were their religion. I exist to make money for my boss, his shareholders, and if I make reference to the outside world, then I’m a slacker. Let me ask you, can you talk to your co-workers in the break/lunchbreak? Some people’s workplaces are very cold and isolated places, to suggest their entire lives should consist of being there is… unreasonable.
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Oscarthecat
Guest
I would rather that the government not dictate to me how much I am allowed to work, much less force everyone to adhere to some arbitrary standard for a “work life balance.” Some people like to work 60 hours a week, others don’t- people should be able to make that choice for themselves.
I would rather that my doctor not be told by some bureaucrat that he can’t operate on me because of some arbitrary standard. If my doctor is smart enough to get through medical school, then he is probably smart enough to decide for himself when he needs to take a break.
Well, I suppose that if you already believe the government should dictate how we balance our work and leisure time, it wouldn’t take much effort to convince you that the government should dictate who is allowed to reproduce.
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Oscarthecat
Guest
So, a person can’t work that much just because they want to, or because they enjoy their job?
Is it completely out of the question that a person should talk to their boss and either remind them of their contract terms or renegotiate their contract to account for the increased hours?
Or, and I know this probably sounds crazy to you- why not start looking for another job?
Once again, if someone hates their job then they should either a) talk to their boss about it to try to improve things, b) talk to their bosses’ boss about it to try to improve things, or c) start looking for another job- that can be a great way to “simply see a different view.”
I know, I know- that sounds much worse than using the government to punish your boss for not letting you hang out with your friends as much as you want to and making you feel sad.
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cynic
Guest
I enjoy computer games, but I wouldn’t want to play them for 70 hours a week. People work those hours ussually out of neccessity, sometimes the job demands it, sometimes they are scared of losing it, sometimes they have issues going on in their lives and use work to ‘escape’, and no I don’t agree with government mandated hours.
Do you work? Expressions of dissatisfaction make you a problem person. Goodbye to the chance of promotion, goodbye to even a half-decent reference.
This may come as a shock, but managers don’t generally care about whether employees are happy. There are lots of unofficial rules, everyone want’s to appear professional, so no social interaction outside of work hours takes place. Any reference to being happy or unhappy, or your life outside of work, does not go down well and it’s the same in most work places.
Oh and the only thing protecting wage earners from longer and longer hours is … the legacy of unions, and government with terrible socialist labour laws, like overtime rates and health & safety requirements.
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cynic
Guest
It’s more often a choice their employers make.
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Oscarthecat
Guest
No, employees make their own choices- the choice you make is based on what risks you are willing to take and what consequences you are willing to accept.
Once you convince yourself that you have no choices, you stop being an employee and have made yourself a slave.
When you use the goverment to convince your employer that they have no choices, then you have made your employer your slave.
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Biggie
Guest
I got my first job when I was 12 years old mopping floors and washing dishes. I gave the money I made to my parents to pay for my books. That year I started at a parochial prep school that allowed me to enter high school after the sixth grade. The tuition was expensive, but three priests came, talked to my parents, and said not to worry about the money. I waited tables in the cafeteria instead of taking recess to pay for my lunches. By the time I graduated from college I had clerked in a store, parked cars, sold shoes, been a deck hand, and short order cooked.
The best life lesson I ever got is “hustle”. A man who had gotten me a job parking cars told me I was embarassing him for recommending me and I was about to get fired. I asked what I could do to change things. He said “You gotta hustle, boy. When a car pulls in, you run to get that car. You go park it. You run back for the next one. That’s hustle.” I did and I kept the job and I haven’t stopped hustling ever since. I was 16.
For many years, when the kids were little, I worked two jobs to help make ends meet. My wife worked as well.
I have hired many people who do not know what it means to work. Prosperity has changed expectations. I had a person walk off the job after I gave him a dollar an hour raise. It was not enough. I had a young man leave the office to get a coke and not come back. Workers won’t come in and won’t call to tell you why.
But for me, it’s God, family and work in that order. People who find fault with putting it all on the line for a job, want to call it materialistic or want to call not taking vacations some kind breach of social justice (heard that one in church), to me that’s prosperity talking, not need.
The best life lesson I ever got is “hustle”. A man who had gotten me a job parking cars told me I was embarassing him for recommending me and I was about to get fired. I asked what I could do to change things. He said “You gotta hustle, boy. When a car pulls in, you run to get that car. You go park it. You run back for the next one. That’s hustle.” I did and I kept the job and I haven’t stopped hustling ever since. I was 16.
For many years, when the kids were little, I worked two jobs to help make ends meet. My wife worked as well.
I have hired many people who do not know what it means to work. Prosperity has changed expectations. I had a person walk off the job after I gave him a dollar an hour raise. It was not enough. I had a young man leave the office to get a coke and not come back. Workers won’t come in and won’t call to tell you why.
But for me, it’s God, family and work in that order. People who find fault with putting it all on the line for a job, want to call it materialistic or want to call not taking vacations some kind breach of social justice (heard that one in church), to me that’s prosperity talking, not need.
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Oscarthecat
Guest
Yes, i have worked my entire life.
Have you ever supervised or employed anyone?
There is a difference between expressing dissatisfaction in a constructive, solution oriented way, and being the office whiner.
I have always had an open door policy for employees who want to talk about things in a constructive manner and wanted to understand the process behind those policies and decisions they disagreed with- I generally saw this as a positive attribute, and never sanctioned any employee for coming to me in this way. In fact, I usually try to put these people into management positions because they have the capacity to see the bigger picture.
On the other hand, I have no patience for whiners- those employees have lots of complaints but no solutions, who are generally unable to think about their role in the larger system or process, harbor a deep sense of entitlement. As it turns out, these types of employees generally turn into the worst kinds of managers because they don’t care about their employee’s opinions anymore than they care about their manager’s.
Well, you can either whine about it or you can do something constructive about it- even if that means quitting. It is your choice.
Any wage earner who really believes that he is completely helpless has made himself a slave. Unions and excessive government interventions only reinforce this sense of helplessness and convince us that we would be slaves without them- which is just another form of slavery.
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cynic
Guest
Constructive criticism does not involve anything the interferes with the bottom line, hours and work culture of the organization. That’s how I read it.
You’d have to be crazy to bring up how you ‘feel’ about working weekends or not being able to take a couple of weeks leave at the end of the year. It’s a short-cut to redundancy or job stagnation and being tagged as a whiner, as you’ve put it. Employers rely on the fact that individuals quite naturally don’t feel inclined to complain about such things.
So what’s left? Unions and labour laws set in place by government. Yay for that.
People in low income or entry level positions do not have endless choices. There is less bargaining power, and pay rates are fairly standard across industries (eg service industry). It’s not as though people can simply opt out of the labour market and go live off a plot of land. In such circumstances labour laws protect workers from excessive hours/extreme low pay, I’m open to the idea that they can go too far (crazy grievance cases) But the fact that you think reliance on such things is indicative of a ‘slave mentality’ sounds like a back-handed insult to those who you have to pay a minimum wage or overtime, when you’d rather not.
Sounds like gobbledegoop to justify removing some very basic laws that would allow a company to save on labour costs, if I may put it that way.
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cynic
Guest
And something stopped you from being able to dismiss or discipline those staff?
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thomfra
Guest
As you said God, family, *then *work. In that order. An old saying. Work to live, not live to work.
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Oscarthecat
Guest
Odd that you didn’t notice the conspicuous lack of “government” in that heirarchy.
You’re slipping:thumbsup:
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thomfra
Guest
Who me? Never!
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thomfra
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RachelsAlumni
Guest
I work 40 hrs a week with one week paid vacation a year. I haven’t had a raise in 3 years in spite of the increased cost of living. I have no paid sick leave. Yet I am happy to have a job.
Yes I would love to have a job where I’m paid a higher wage with sick pay and more vacation, but that hasn’t been my lot in life.
My salary allows me to rent a small, meager home, a 9’ x 25’ cottage. As a single person, non-homeowner I pay >25% federal taxes. I pay for utilities: water, trash & electricity. I have internet service, cable TV & phone and a cell phone. Other expenses are car insurance/maintenance (I own my own economy car). Fuel expenses lately have taken a bigger chunk out of my paycheck since I commute 20 miles each way to work and back. Food prices have gone up considerably as well and have almost doubled in the past year which has taken it’s toll on my budget.
Back in the early 90’s I went on a 6 week vacation to Europe. When I was in Fussen, Germany I met a police officer on vacation. He had a 3 week vacation, all expenses paid, with daily massages at a resort. Nice! Then when I was in Munich I met some Germans who said they had 3 months vacation a year! When I got to Paris the entire town was on vacation. While I was there I met a man who lived in Paris and had his own business where he worked for only a few hours a day. I don’t know how they do it.
I love how some countries have daily siestas yet when I was in Florence, Italy I arrived at the onset of the siesta when all the shops close down for the afternoon. I was starving and I had to wait until after siesta to eat. It was very frustrating.
Yes I would love to have a job where I’m paid a higher wage with sick pay and more vacation, but that hasn’t been my lot in life.
My salary allows me to rent a small, meager home, a 9’ x 25’ cottage. As a single person, non-homeowner I pay >25% federal taxes. I pay for utilities: water, trash & electricity. I have internet service, cable TV & phone and a cell phone. Other expenses are car insurance/maintenance (I own my own economy car). Fuel expenses lately have taken a bigger chunk out of my paycheck since I commute 20 miles each way to work and back. Food prices have gone up considerably as well and have almost doubled in the past year which has taken it’s toll on my budget.
Back in the early 90’s I went on a 6 week vacation to Europe. When I was in Fussen, Germany I met a police officer on vacation. He had a 3 week vacation, all expenses paid, with daily massages at a resort. Nice! Then when I was in Munich I met some Germans who said they had 3 months vacation a year! When I got to Paris the entire town was on vacation. While I was there I met a man who lived in Paris and had his own business where he worked for only a few hours a day. I don’t know how they do it.
I love how some countries have daily siestas yet when I was in Florence, Italy I arrived at the onset of the siesta when all the shops close down for the afternoon. I was starving and I had to wait until after siesta to eat. It was very frustrating.
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RachelsAlumni
Guest
I work 40 hrs a week with one week paid vacation a year. I haven’t had a raise in 3 years in spite of the increased cost of living. I have no paid sick leave. My employer pays for health insurance, but it’s an HMO and I have a copay if I go to see the doctor and it’s substandard healthcare. It can take a month or longer to get a doctors appointment. Yet I am happy to have a job.
Yes I would love to have a job where I’m paid a higher wage with sick pay and more vacation, but that hasn’t been my lot in life.
My salary allows me to rent a small, meager home, a 9’ x 25’ cottage. As a single person, non-homeowner I pay >25% federal taxes. I pay for utilities: water, trash & electricity. I have internet service, cable TV & phone and a cell phone. Other expenses are car insurance/maintenance (I own my own economy car). Fuel expenses lately have taken a bigger chunk out of my paycheck since I commute 20 miles each way to work and back. Food prices have gone up considerably as well and have almost doubled in the past year which has taken it’s toll on my budget.
Back in the early 90’s I went on a 6 week vacation to Europe. When I was in Fussen, Germany I met a police officer on vacation. He had a 3 week vacation, all expenses paid, with daily massages at a resort. Nice! Then when I was in Munich I met some Germans who said they had 3 months vacation a year! When I got to Paris the entire town was on vacation. While I was there I met a man who lived in Paris and had his own business where he worked for only a few hours a day. I don’t know how they do it.
I love how some countries have daily siestas yet when I was in Florence, Italy I arrived at the onset of the siesta when all the shops close down for the afternoon. I was starving and I had to wait until after siesta to eat. It was very frustrating.
Yes I would love to have a job where I’m paid a higher wage with sick pay and more vacation, but that hasn’t been my lot in life.
My salary allows me to rent a small, meager home, a 9’ x 25’ cottage. As a single person, non-homeowner I pay >25% federal taxes. I pay for utilities: water, trash & electricity. I have internet service, cable TV & phone and a cell phone. Other expenses are car insurance/maintenance (I own my own economy car). Fuel expenses lately have taken a bigger chunk out of my paycheck since I commute 20 miles each way to work and back. Food prices have gone up considerably as well and have almost doubled in the past year which has taken it’s toll on my budget.
Back in the early 90’s I went on a 6 week vacation to Europe. When I was in Fussen, Germany I met a police officer on vacation. He had a 3 week vacation, all expenses paid, with daily massages at a resort. Nice! Then when I was in Munich I met some Germans who said they had 3 months vacation a year! When I got to Paris the entire town was on vacation. While I was there I met a man who lived in Paris and had his own business where he worked for only a few hours a day. I don’t know how they do it.
I love how some countries have daily siestas yet when I was in Florence, Italy I arrived at the onset of the siesta when all the shops close down for the afternoon. I was starving and I had to wait until after siesta to eat. It was very frustrating.
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