Worried About the Future of the Roman Rite...Any Consoling Words Out There???

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Antonius_Lupus

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I write this in a state of trepidation. His Holiness has recently promulgated the Instruction on his recent Motu Propio letter, Summorum Pontificum. I laud His Holiness for having exercised his position as Supreme Lawgiver of the Universal Church. Moreover, I thank him for making the 1962 Missal of Bl. Pope John XXIII more accessible to those Roman Catholics who desire it. In doing this, he has continued the august legacy of his predecessor, Bl. Pope John Paul II. Not only that, he has made this older use of the Roman rite available for celebration *sine populo *by any Roman priest; an accessibility that will indubitably help the entire presbyterate of the Latin Church to celebrate the sacred liturgy more faithfully.

Despite these good things, I remain extremely apprehensive of what may happen to the beloved Roman rite.

I need not remind my fellow posters of the wondrous unity that the Roman rite has witnessed for so many centuries. Long has the Roman rite been praised for the fact that any Roman Catholic can assist at Holy Mass in any nation and still celebrate the liturgy in an active manner. Aside from that great unity, many liturgical historians have noted the ancient origin and illustrious past that is the pride of the Roman rite.

The Second Vatican **Ecumenical **Council (why does it seem so easy for people to forget the awesome authority of this synod?!?!?!), called for the restoration in the whole Roman Church of many aspects of the Roman rite which had been lost for many centuries. The Servant of God, Pope Paul VI, carried out these restorations faithfully and delivered to the Roman Church a new edition of the Missal. This new Missal gave back to the Roman Church many aspects of the pre-medieval and Patristic form of her liturgy, which she had been trying to reclaim since the time of Pope St. Pius V.

Even so, as His Holiness has noted, this grand liturgical renewal was hampered by a liturgical crisis. This new Missal, a splendid restoration of the ancient Faith, was misused and mistreated. The directives promulgated by the predecessors of His Holiness were often ignored, and the faithful suffered greatly. I can attest to my own experiences of seeing the Mass of Paul VI, the ordinary form of the Roman rite, abused and defaced.

There is no doubt in my mind that His Holiness’ decision to widen the usage of the Missal of Bl. John XXIII, which he has made the extraordinary form of the Roman rite, was an attempt to restore the sense of the sacred in the Roman Church. Yet, I, an unlearned son of Holy Mother Church, have grown worried at what may occur from this new direction.

I was baptized according to the ordinary form of the Roman rite and thus became a Christian through it. Furthermore, my first confession, my confirmation and my first holy communion all occurred in accord with the ordinary form. Those moments were the greatest of my life, and I am fearful that liturgy under which I came to know Christ may soon be divided. I am afraid of a day when the Roman rite, so long marked by unity, will be divided between pre-Vatican II and post-Vatican II liturgies.

That is my fear. His Holiness’ promulgation of the Instruction only further deepens that fear.

I have defended the Mass of Paul VI and the ordinary form more than once. I am proud of the liturgical advances which were implemented in accord with the mandates of the twenty-first ecumenical synod. It fills me with delight to know that when I attend the Mass of Paul VI, I am experiencing much of what my Roman/Latin blood ancestors in the Patristic era also experienced. The very thought that this restored Roman rite will be forced to share its rightful place as the ordinary form with a Gallicanized, medieval liturgy (which an **ecumenical **council stated needed reformation) fills me with agony and sadness.

Why simply can we not focus working to make the ordinary form what it should be? By no means do I suggest that the Missal of Bl. John XXIII be abrogated, but why allow it to become anything more than a mere variation of Latin rite; something akin to what the Ambrosian and Mozarabic rites are to the Church of Rome even today?

Why not allow the ordinary form to shine and blossom!? Let’s pave a way for the ordinary form to be further polished and restored; with all the pomp and noble simplicity characteristic of our rite. In this way, will not the Second Vatican Ecumenical Council will be vindicated against all who detract it? In this way, will not the unity of the Roman rite will be preserved and the extraordinary form safeguarded as the historical treasure that it is?

I am REALLY concerned about this, and now I am hearing rumors of a future “common rite” which will incorporate both the EF and OF (thus destroying both and creating a whole new rite).

I have spent countless hours struggling in a long journey to come to love the ordinary form as a restoration and a needed gift for the Church…now is all that struggle for nothing?

I feel like I am watching the Roman Rite divide in two, and I can’t do anything to stop it!

Am I missing something here?
 
Trust in Jesus Christ, my friend. No need to worry. I read the end of the book and guess what? We win!

Sure its going to be painful to get there but our Lord suffered for our sins. Do we expect to do less and still gain entrance to heaven?

Fear not about the future for that is all in vain.

Cheers and God Bless
 
I think is not good to become overly attached to a particular form. It is fine to have a preference, but contrary to secular views God has not left the building! And that applies which ever rite we use.

I suspect I may prefer the extraordinary form, but am not sure as yet. If they do away with both and have a common form so be it. Obedience comes before preference.
 
This new Missal, a splendid restoration of the ancient Faith, was misused and mistreated.
Your statement says it all. But do not worry there are signs that the tide is turning and the faith is becoming more ‘Catholic’ instead of being ‘protestantised’. The corrected translation of the Mass in the English language will help tremendously.

Pray, pray, pray - especially for our Bishops.
 
Trust in Jesus Christ, my friend. No need to worry. I read the end of the book and guess what? We win!

Sure its going to be painful to get there but our Lord suffered for our sins. Do we expect to do less and still gain entrance to heaven?

Fear not about the future for that is all in vain.

Cheers and God Bless
Amen! The Apostles did not celebrate the Roman rite, yet were filled with joy! Would they have despaired at the advent of the Roman rite, as it involved changes from how they celebrated? OP is way over-thinking this, IMO. We are to love Christ, not the ritual that we observe during our worship of him.
 
Your statement says it all. But do not worry there are signs that the tide is turning and the faith is becoming more ‘Catholic’ instead of being ‘protestantised’. The corrected translation of the Mass in the English language will help tremendously.

Pray, pray, pray - especially for our Bishops.
Amen!
 
Amen! The Apostles did not celebrate the Roman rite, yet were filled with joy! Would they have despaired at the advent of the Roman rite, as it involved changes from how they celebrated? OP is way over-thinking this, IMO. We are to love Christ, not the ritual that we observe during our worship of him.
Yes, but there’s no division between loving Christ and the ritual we use to do so, otherwise a Non-Denominational praise service would be acceptable. As we pray, so we believe - the liturgy can profoundly effect the beliefs of the people celebrating and attending it and that is the reason for the reform of Paul VI. If the ritual is defective, the theology it conveys becomes defective, then the people learn from it an improper way of loving Christ. The Extraordinary form, and it’s sad to say it, but it was theologically defective. It is also out of date, for it conveys a very medieval and even anti-Protestant mindset that is unbalanced toward Anselm’s doctrine of atonement (which has its place in the OF liturgy as practiced according to the Council’s intentions, but is placed back into the larger context of the Paschal Mystery of Christ’s love.)

The best the EF can do right now is to “remind” the modern OF (which is against the Council’s letter) of exalted reverence and Anselm’s doctrine. Basically, it need to be more vertical - like a community gathering around a merciful and loving King - more regal and sacrificial. The common rite would probably look more balanced, with the true meaning of communal Pasch maintained but ad orientam, smells, bells, chant, polyphony, and generally more Gallicanized. Actually… it would look like the Council’s intentions.

😉 😃
 
The common rite would probably look more balanced, with the true meaning of communal Pasch maintained but ad orientam, smells, bells, chant, polyphony, and generally more Gallicanized. Actually… it would look like the Council’s intentions.

😉 😃
Hmm…I suggested this once and I was told that I “need to quit living in the past and move forward.”:rolleyes:
 
Yes, but there’s no division between loving Christ and the ritual we use to do so, otherwise a Non-Denominational praise service would be acceptable.
For Catholics, there is no worship without sacrifice, and non-D’s have no sacrifice.
As we pray, so we believe - the liturgy can profoundly effect the beliefs of the people celebrating and attending it and that is the reason for the reform of Paul VI. If the ritual is defective, the theology it conveys becomes defective, then the people learn from it an improper way of loving Christ. The Extraordinary form, and it’s sad to say it, but it was theologically defective. It is also out of date, for it conveys a very medieval and even anti-Protestant mindset that is unbalanced toward Anselm’s doctrine of atonement (which has its place in the OF liturgy as practiced according to the Council’s intentions, but is placed back into the larger context of the Paschal Mystery of Christ’s love.)
I must point out that this is your opinion, as the Holy Father and the Church allow for full validity of both forms. Our faith, our reverence is within us. It does not come from a changeable and changing liturgy - if it did, it would then have a foundation of sand. I do believe that you have this backward. Theology is not affected by how we observe it, as it is the base and the observation (liturgy) flows from it. The liturgy is not a constant, whereas our theology is a rock. No man-made liturgical observance can ever be perfect, outside of the mystical realm.
The best the EF can do right now is to “remind” the modern OF (which is against the Council’s letter) of exalted reverence and Anselm’s doctrine. Basically, it need to be more vertical - like a community gathering around a merciful and loving King - more regal and sacrificial. The common rite would probably look more balanced, with the true meaning of communal Pasch maintained but ad orientam, smells, bells, chant, polyphony, and generally more Gallicanized. Actually… it would look like the Council’s intentions.😉 😃
It sounds like you are judging the Church here. Since the liturgy is a constant object of study, please ask yourself why two different forms are authorized in the Latin rite. What about the Eastern Rite? Do you criticize those, as well? They are quite different, but any rite is only the physical structure in which we celebrate the Divine Mysteries.
 
The Church is Jesus Christ among us. If you have no hope in Him, you are desperately hopeless.
 
For Catholics, there is no worship without sacrifice, and non-D’s have no sacrifice.

True.

I must point out that this is your opinion, as the Holy Father and the Church allow for full validity of both forms. Our faith, our reverence is within us. It does not come from a changeable and changing liturgy - if it did, it would then have a foundation of sand. I do believe that you have this backward. Theology is not affected by how we observe it, as it is the base and the observation (liturgy) flows from it. The liturgy is not a constant, whereas our theology is a rock. No man-made liturgical observance can ever be perfect, outside of the mystical realm.

I agree with your position as well, my point is that the theology flows through the liturgy and people learn the theology through it. If the window becomes cloudy then so does the understanding, because theology doesn’t teach itself, it must be learned. I never said the liturgy is the theology, so there can be all sorts of different expressions of ritual. But the ritual has to be very carefully planned so as to reflect the intentions behind it - versus populum, freestanding altars, communion in the hand, vernacular, etc. were not a part of the plan.

It sounds like you are judging the Church here. Since the liturgy is a constant object of study, please ask yourself why two different forms are authorized in the Latin rite. What about the Eastern Rite? Do you criticize those, as well? They are quite different, but any rite is only the physical structure in which we celebrate the Divine Mysteries.

No need to be so hostile. The fact remains that there was a reform for a reason, the EF may be completely orthodox in what it teaches, but it’s no sacred cow and its missing things that were reemphasized at the reform. We deepen our understanding of theology as time goes by, but the EF doesn’t show some of it as clearly as we grasp it now. And despite allowing for it, I will say again that there was a reason for the reform. The Eastern rites, I am sure, emphasize Eastern traditions. No problem there.

And Benedict XVI has said some of the same things I have, but it will take me time to find them again. Two forms allowed or not, ask yourself why there was a reform. 😉
 
Why not allow the ordinary form to shine and blossom!? Let’s pave a way for the ordinary form to be further polished and restored; with all the pomp and noble simplicity characteristic of our rite. In this way, will not the Second Vatican Ecumenical Council will be vindicated against all who detract it?
Have you ever attended a Latin OF with chant, organ, pomp, etc? (As the Pope says it.)Many here no doubt would die for one. I have not attended one which was irreverent. To me it seems as if this would be the way to go, with perhaps some vernacular into the readings and in those countries which knew nothing about the Catholic Mass. (Wasn’t this the order of Vatican II?)

Cardinal Arinze seems to be of the opinion that had the Latin OF Mass been made more available, there would have been less demand for the EF. Perhaps he has a point.
 
Have you ever attended a Latin OF with chant, organ, pomp, etc? (As the Pope says it.)Many here no doubt would die for one.
EXACTLY!!! THAT is what I LONG, ACHE, and PINE for! When the restored Roman Mass is done like that…it’s indescribable.
Cardinal Arinze seems to be of the opinion that had the Latin OF Mass been made more available, there would have been less demand for the EF. Perhaps he has a point.
I think that’s obvious. The entire “traditionalist” movement was a reaction to the HORRID and VAST infection of modernism.
 
The traditionalist movement will be vindicated by catholic history, thank you Lord Jesus for the reform of the reform.
 
Cardinal Arinze is spot on. If the OF mass had been implemented as was intended in V2 then the priest would be facing the altar, there would be altar rails, communion on the tongue kneeling, solemn liturgical music including organs and gregorian chant etc. As the cardinal said, if this had happened then nobody would even have felt the need to restore the EF.

So the solution is clear. Parishes all over the world need to restore these traditional elements to their mass. When that is done, the EF will gradually die away.

I attend an EF regularly and it is a noble and wonderful rite. It would be a tragedy for it to completely die away. How can you prohibit something so venerable and holy. However a great many people who attend there have been distressed by atrocious scripture and mass translations, liturgical abuse and liberalism at their parishes and have been driven to the EF mass for solace and consolation. The Holy Father as a good shepherd knows what is going on at the local level and is giving his blessing to these people and including them in his fold. He is very anxious that these good Catholics who have a legitimate complaint should not fall into the clutches of the SSPX or other traditional and even sedevacantist outfits.

The first step is for the bishop to embrace and openly foster the activities of the EF in his diocese. Local priests of the ordinary form who see the beautiful and sacred elements of this mass will desire to implement them in the OF. They will be concerned about losing people to the EF and so will move the OF closer to it. Then as the OF becomes less and less distinguishable from the EF, the EF community will drift back to their parishes.

In 50 years time we will all be attending an OF that looks every bit like the EF. People will look back and will be very greatful to the EF and Pope Benedict for having been a silo for preserving the sacred traditions of the church during a period of liturgical horror. Just like in ancient roman times the barbarians came out of the forests and overran the west; and the monks and the monasteries preserved the faith. So too when the barbarians overran the west and destroyed our liturgy the priests and the faithful community of the EF have preserved the sacred traditions of the mass for future generations.
 
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Notice that I italicized “sounds like”. Actually it did not sound like, but ‘read like’, if you catch my drift.

In any event, I think that the OP is worried about nothing. Unless OP’s current favorite liturgy is the only one he/she can accept - which I doubt.
 
For those who quote Cardinal Arinze’s support of the EF, know also that he is keenly aware of the EF liturgical abuses, concealed in the the Latin as they were/are, that caused the liturgical changes in the first place. Many members here have grandparents that prayed the Rosary during mass. I know that the fault was theirs, but how is our theology aided by offering a lesser devotional prayer during mass - which is the Church’s greatest prayer?

By way of analogy, listening to a foreign language sounds pure and beautiful until someone tells you that it contains slang and occasional profanity. The pre-V2 mass was in no way without substantial problems. If we think that a simple reversion, in this time of societal deterioration and disrespect, will magically restore the Church to days of old, well…

Whatever the Church offers, I will observe. We are called to nothing less. It seems that I am becoming more Franciscan as time marches on.
 
Have you ever attended a Latin OF with chant, organ, pomp, etc? (As the Pope says it.)Many here no doubt would die for one. I have not attended one which was irreverent. To me it seems as if this would be the way to go, with perhaps some vernacular into the readings and in those countries which knew nothing about the Catholic Mass. (Wasn’t this the order of Vatican II?)

Cardinal Arinze seems to be of the opinion that had the Latin OF Mass been made more available, there would have been less demand for the EF. Perhaps he has a point.
He may be right.

What would be the difference besides the ad orientem versus ad populum? Would there be the many genuflections as one passes the altar? Would it look like an EWTN mass but in Latin?
 
he is keenly aware of the EF liturgical abuses
The type of “abuses” most hurl against the EF have I believe more to do with the dispostion of those in attendance more than the priest. Praying the rosary is not an abuse per se but perhaps plain undesired inattentiveness to what’s going on. Big difference. Same with not responding verbally to the priest or not singing. Stating that so and so in Latin could have been an abuse because people didn’t know Latin has been overblown as well, IMO. If that were as extensive as people make it out to be, it would have thoroughly confused the servers who rely on rubrics and the Latin for their cues. It just didn’t happen that often as most priests adhered to the more intricate rubrics and the Latin texts.

Besides Cardinal Arinze is pushing Latin in the ordinary form too so abuses could just as easily creep in there too, no?
 
What would be the difference besides the ad orientem versus ad populum? Would there be the many genuflections as one passes the altar? Would it look like an EWTN mass but in Latin?
There a few differences but most probably wouldn’t notice them. You can do some comparisons watching this video but remember the OF even in Latin carries many options.

youtube.com/watch?v=_8qAKHSGS1o
 
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