Worried About the Future of the Roman Rite...Any Consoling Words Out There???

[Antonius_Lupus]

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It’s a dilemma—isn’t it. Taking into account the entrenchment of modernism–I do not see a viable solution. It may well likely be – we’ll ending up losing more – in trying to merge the two forms.

Agreed. ugh!

 

[BernadetteM]

This is a beautiful mass.

I really like that the congregation sings during the entrance and the incensing. Reminds me of Anglican Use.

I would not have any objections to this kind of mass.

This video further makes me think that eventually, both forms will merge into something like this.

It is being celebrated at Our Lady of the Atonement Anglican Use Catholic Church. All things are done in great reverence, whether the Anglican Use Mass or the Latin Mass.

The parish started with 18 members including the Pastor and is family and now has around 3000 members and a very large school, which I believe that the children attend Mass every school day.

Hopefully the Ordinariate in the US will be established very soon and one will see more and more of the Anglican Use Masses and also if requested the Latin Mass.

God Bless

Bernadette

 

[TrueLight]

It is being celebrated at Our Lady of the Atonement Anglican Use Catholic Church. All things are done in great reverence, whether the Anglican Use Mass or the Latin Mass.

The parish started with 18 members including the Pastor and is family and now has around 3000 members and a very large school, which I believe that the children attend Mass every school day.

Hopefully the Ordinariate in the US will be established very soon and one will see more and more of the Anglican Use Masses and also if requested the Latin Mass.

God Bless

Bernadette

Oh thanks for that bit of information!

I thought the Anglican Use masses were in the vernacular?

 

[BernadetteM]

Oh thanks for that bit of information!

I thought the Anglican Use masses were in the vernacular?

They are, this was the the regular Latin Mass, which the Anglican Use priests can celebrate and they can also celebrate the EF. Of course their main liturgy is the Anglican Use, and at times Latin is used for the Gloria and Sanctus.

This Mass was done at the Academy and it appears that the Pastor, Fr. Phillips wants the students to know the latin, or least the responses in latin.

There is also a video of the full AU Mass at OLA website in San Antonio TX. It is the liturgy that was approved 28 years ago for former Anglicans, however this will be changing once the Ordinariates are in place and many are hoping for a liturgy closer to the Anglican Missal and Sarum Use, as these are very similar to the EF, except in the vernacular, including the beautiful prayers that are Catholic in theology, but Anglican in use.

God Bless

Bernadette

 

[Aramis]

My advice to the OP:

Be Not Afraid!
Do the red, say the black, at least when it’s appropriate for you to do so.
Don’t do what isn’t permitted, and if in doubt, ask.
When directed by competent authority to do something, do so. Ask why after doing it.

When the Church and the Civil government assert conflicting obligations, Church should win.

Most of all, Trust the Holy Spirit to guide the church. And through the church, to also guide you.

 

[Antonius_Lupus]

My advice to the OP:

Be Not Afraid!
Do the red, say the black, at least when it’s appropriate for you to do so.
Don’t do what isn’t permitted, and if in doubt, ask.
When directed by competent authority to do something, do so. Ask why after doing it.

When the Church and the Civil government assert conflicting obligations, Church should win.

Most of all, Trust the Holy Spirit to guide the church. And through the church, to also guide you.

Perhaps the best advice possible. Thank you, my Ruthenian-Byzantine brother.

 

[po18guy]

It’s common knowledge that he spoke out against liturgical abuse of the OF and said that the EF would not have been needed if everybody had followed the OF as intended by the V2 and the liturgical commission. You are the one making controversial allegations of what Cardinal Arinze said about the EF, therefore it is beholden upon you to provide a citation. The fact that you have failed to so is further evidence to me that the Cardinal said no such thing. Expecting others to research and check up on your own claims is just bone laziness. You should provide a citation or a URL to help the many people who are interested in following up your claim of what the Cardinal said, instead of expecting everyone of those people to check it up for themselves.

Unfortunately, many people are very lazy. They will hear an off the cuff statement that so and so said such and such and they will believe it without checking it up. I am not at all lazy in this way, I always check up things that people say before I believe them. But I don’t have time to check up every lazy comment made on the forum. Therefore I will not accept that Cardinal Arinze said any such thing about the EF until you provide evidence to the contrary.

People who make off the cuff and unsubstantiated comments on forums like this do so to prop up their own agendas and prey on the general laziness of the audience.

This should be a lesson to all of us to disregard unsubstantiated statements, or at least to be very wary of them.

I’m not saying that Cardinal Arinze did not say those things about the EF, I am just saying that I highly doubt it. I believe you have made an unthinking knee jerk off the cuff comment which seemed useful to you at the time.

Please provide a reference or a citation to back up your statement that Cardinal Arinze acknowledged liturgical abuse in the EF and that he believes that this liturgical abuse gave rise to liturgical changes in the 1970’s. When I see the evidence for your claim then you will see how open minded I am to new information, and that I do not have a closed mind on the subject, as you have falsely claimed.

Read his book Celebrating the Holy Eucharist. Watch his videos on the Arinze webcasts. I am merely reporting his comments. My agenda is personal obedience to whatever form of liturgy the Church approves.

 

[po18guy]

I have a Missal that belonged to my Dad - given to him in 1938 - in the introduction part under ‘Practical Hints’ it actually recommends lay people to pray the Rosary during Mass. This is one of 3 recommended options: - 1. Follow the Mass in the book; 2. Follow the Mass whilst praying the Sorrowful mysteries of the Rosary; 3. Say the Mass with the priest by saying: 5 Our Fathers, 5 Hail Marys from the Confiteor to the Offertory, repeat from Offertory to the Elevaton, again from Elevation to Communion, and finally again from Communion to the last Gospel.
Until I read this I had always thought the same - that the Rosary was prayed because people didn’t understand Latin.

I offer the following based upon the writing of Cardinal Arinze in Celebrating theHoly Eucharist. Consider why these hints were given in the first place. The Cardinal notes that, post-Trent, the mass had the appearance of an action of the clergy at which the laity were merely present. The Council sought to rectify that, and allow full and active participation on the part of the laity in the celebration of the mass - to combat passivity. To me, it is clear that offering prayers that are not a part of the mass tends to distract from what is actually occurring at the mass.

 

[excubitor]

Read his book Celebrating the Holy Eucharist. Watch his videos on the Arinze webcasts. I am merely reporting his comments. My agenda is personal obedience to whatever form of liturgy the Church approves.

I’ve watched all of his webcasts and have never heard him say that the reason for the liturgical initiatives of Vatican 2 was liturgical abuse of the old Latin rite. Please link to the specific webcast in which he stated this and I will watch it again.

Please provide a citation from “Celebrating the Holy Eucharist” . I am not in a position to go out and buy the book. Quite frankly, I regard the notion that Cardinal Arinze would say such a thing as being utterly absurd. I do not accept that there is any statement of this kind in his book until you provide evidence to the contrary. I really think you are making this all up knowing that I will not go out and buy and read the entire book just to verify that he said the things you claim he said.