Worship of Mary?

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PRmerger said:
Latria involves sacrifice. We offer sacrifice to God. Not to saints.
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:hmmm: So, would it be wrong to sacrifice your life in defending the honor of Mary? I wouldn’t think so. I might be getting into trouble with my prepositions here.
 
+JMJ+
Taestron said:
So I guess I’ll ask the question now. What are some examples that highlight the distinction between dulia and latria?
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We give dulia to saints so we can give more latria to God. Dulia must ALWAYS lead to and increase latria. If dulia towards a saint does not lead to nor increase latria of God, then that dulia stops being dulia, and may even lead to latria of the saint.

Voodooism comes to mind.
 
Taestron said:
:hmmm: So, would it be wrong to sacrifice your life in defending the honor of Mary? I wouldn’t think so. I might be getting into trouble with my prepositions here.
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Irrational, maybe, but not necessarily “wrong.”

It would be wrong to honor Mary independent of God’s work in her life. It would be wrong to attribute Mary’s “blessedness” to Mary. When Catholics say Mary is full of grace, we attribute her state of grace to God, and God alone. We revere Mary for her obedience to God’s will, but we worship God because He alone is the source of all grace.

In the same way, Catholics recognize that any “good” that can be found in a canonized saint is due to God alone. To do otherwise would be like admiring a piece of art without recognizing the talent of the artist. In Catholicism, we admire the art but we attribute the beauty to its creator.
 
Taestron said:
:hmmm: So, would it be wrong to sacrifice your life in defending the honor of Mary? I wouldn’t think so. I might be getting into trouble with my prepositions here.
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Yes, you’re getting your prepositions all wrong.

Sacrifice, of course, is good. I sacrifice myself for my husband and children all the time. And that’s not worship.

Sacrificing oneself for Mary, if she were alive on earth and going to take an arrow, and stepping in front of the arrow, would be a loving and heroic thing to do. It would not be an act of worship to Mary.

Sacrificing TO God, however, is different. It is the way we worship. It is the Mass. I
 
I do appreciate all the responses here on the forum.
After reading through the replies i can see that not everyone here
has the exact same thought as to Mary’s position here or what the
catholic churches teaches regarding her.
I will read through the responses again and look over the links.
But again I wanted to thank everyone who posted
 
Taestron said:
Sorry if the thread you linked has this answer already (I didn’t have time to read it 😦 ), but I have reservations about this distinction. This is not because I think it is false, but I realize I have no idea what this distinction would entail. Whenever I have seen this argument it goes something like this:
Protestant: Catholics worship Mary.

Catholic: we give the saints dulia but reserve latria for God.
Me (in my mind): but what is dulia and latria. What sorts of actions constitute one or the other?

So I guess I’ll ask the question now. What are some examples that highlight the distinction between dulia and latria?
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Maybe this from New Advent will help; newadvent.org/cathen/05188b.htm

Short answer dulia is always knowing a creature is a creation of God and can do nothing apart from God who alone is God.
 
So let me see if I am understanding this. Dulia must always lead to latria of God. The chief way this is accomplished is to recognize the fundamental subordination of the one being honored to the goodness of God. So is the distinction between Dulia and latria chiefly one of this recognition and not of a specific kind of action (other than the sacrifice of Mass). Are there any other actions that can only be latria and not also dulia in certain circumstances?
 
Taestron said:
So let me see if I am understanding this. Dulia must always lead to latria of God. The chief way this is accomplished is to recognize the fundamental subordination of the one being honored to the goodness of God. So is the distinction between Dulia and latria chiefly one of this recognition and not of a specific kind of action (other than the sacrifice of Mass). Are there any other actions that can only be latria and not also dulia in certain circumstances?
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One action that would be construed as worship is starting your own religion to pray to that entity. That would include proclaiming a creed of what one believes about this entity, having a code of behavior that this entity desires, and having a cult of rituals designed to pray to this entity.
 
JRKH said:
Actually I have heard it said that she is the spouse of the Holy Spirit…

Peace
James
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Thank you for clarifying. I was just not particularly specific on which part of the trinity I meant. Of course, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are one anyway…
 
dsully said:
Someone recommended Hail Holy Queen by Dr. Scott Hahn, which I just finished reading.

I think one key here is that Mary is Jesus’ mother. They share the same D.N.A. He lived in her womb. She breastfed him. Etc.

Another key is that she is our mother. Through baptism and confirmation, we are adopted into the holy family of God. She protects us. She prays for us. She is concerned that we, as adopted sons, grow into the image of her perfect son, Jesus.

Because of the facts of the incarnation, Mary plays a certain role in helping along our salvation and spiritual growth. But that is only because of the sacred role that God has given her in all this.

Dan
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Is she a mediator between God and man?
 
QuickCat said:
Is she a mediator between God and man?
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Aren’t we all?

Jesus is “The” Mediator, true, but He has many brothers and sisters, and we can all be mediators between God and our brothers and sisters, not ‘without’ Jesus, but with Him. We aren’t competing with Him!
 
QuickCat said:
Is she a mediator between God and man?
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No. A mediator, by definition, is a person or group acting as a neutral 3rd party for the purpose of resolving a conflict between two other parties. The dictionary gives as examples the judge in a trial or the referee at a sporting event. Mary is an advocate, not a mediator, because she is in no way acting neutrally here, but rather advocating for us.
 
Church_Militant said:
It’s John MacArthur again. :rolleyes: He may be “a prominent protestant evangelical”, but when it comes to the Catholic faith, he doesn’t know what he’s talking about, and is actually feeding his people anti-Catholic propaganda and misinformation. I guess he feels he needs to keep the controversies, factual or not, stirred up so his financial donations don’t drop off. In his case, as with so many other a-Cs, the venerable Bishop Fulton Sheen was quite correct when he said:
“Few people in America hate the Catholic religion,
but there are many who hate
what they mistakenly believe is the Catholic religion
—and if what they hate really were the Catholic religion,
Catholics would hate it too.”

I suggest that you see the following articles from the Catholic Answers main site and my own blog.


  1. *]Saint Worship?
    *]Do Catholics Worship Statues?
    *]Immaculate Conception and Assumption
    *]Mary: Ever Virgin
    *]Mary: Mother of God
    *]“Brethren of the Lord”
    *]The Perpetual Virginity of the Blessed Virgin Mary.
    *]Iconoclasm: Or: Catholics Worship Graven Images NOT
    *]Reasons Why I Believe in The Blessed Virgin Mary’s Assumption
    *]The Intercession & Communion of Saints
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QuickCat said:
Is she a mediator between God and man?
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Moses was a mediator between God and man. Moses mediated a covenant between God and man.

Read Exodus 19 and Exodus 24. Moses goes up and down the mountain, bringing God’s proposals to the Israelites and reporting the responses of the people to God. Up and down the mountain, at least five times in Exodus 19 alone. Moses mediates a covenant between God and man, but the covenant he mediates is imperfect, because Moses is an imperfect man.

For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, (1 Timothy 2:5)

Jesus is he perfect mediator between God and man because he is both God and man. He is one God, the man Christ Jesus.

the covenant he mediates is better (Hebrews 8:6)

As both God and man, Jesus is the perfect mediator, and so the covenant he mediates is superior to the covenant Moses mediated.

-Tim-
 
to jpink1019: Jesus is our Intercessor, He said to come unto Me. No where in the bible does it say to ask Mary for anything or to pray to her. The woman in Rev chp 12 is symbolic of Israel, the twelve stars are the 12 tribes of Israel. the birth pains is the suffering Israel went through while patiently waiting for Jesus to be born as told in the OT. they went through hell while waiting for their Savior to arrive. I was catholic but I left the church bcuz of all the idlolatry involved. I go to Jesus and him only, He has always been there for me and always will. the title “queen of heaven” is found in the book of Jeremiah. this queen of heaven is a goddess who promoted sexual pleasure, and the RCC has the nerve to call Mary the queen of heaven. the RCC has convinced you just like it convinced me at one time that it is ok to pray to Mary and it isn’t, it is idolatry. the RCC doesn’t see it this way bcuz they have been praying to her for so long that they just blindly do it. go to Jesus let Him give you rest and peace and forgiveness, He won’t turn you away. He hears and answers all prayers.
 
Jesus is both Man and God/Divine

is Mary both Man and Divine as well?
 
I am a “unprominent protestant evangelical”. Concerning John MacArthur I agree with you. He also rejects infant baptism. The way he does it in a 1998 sermon is a little offensive to me (a protestant) as I assume it would all catholics.
Concerning the prayers to Mary to/for God route, if it works for you, okay! Personally, I like the direct route.
In the end, Jesus died for all and John 3:16 says it all.
 
jon_hansen said:
I am a “unprominent protestant evangelical”. Concerning John MacArthur I agree with you. He also rejects infant baptism. The way he does it in a 1998 sermon is a little offensive to me (a protestant) as I assume it would all catholics.
Concerning the prayers to Mary to/for God route, if it works for you, okay! Personally, I like the direct route.
In the end, Jesus died for all and John 3:16 says it all.
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This is a very common mistake.

While the King has to put up with his disobedient and rebellious subjects asking him for things they don’t deserve, he does not ignore the request of his Mother and Queen.

Mary is the most direct route.

-Tim-
 
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