Would a Biden Presidency Mean the End of Charter Schools?

[PaulinVA]

While I’m not speaking about @PaulinVA, the language “public school vs. charter schools “ is intentional to speak the false idea that charters aren’t really public schools.

Well, bear with me here. I’m having a hard time understanding how a private non profit can run a “public” school. Maybe that’s on me.

 

[Pattylt]

What a strange label. I wonder what on earth they had in mind (??) Is it a “classical” school by chance? I love classical education, but unfortunately for us Catholics and families of other believes, it has been hijacked by a number of fundamentalist churches.

These two schools were playing loose. They are a fundamentalist structure, biblically based…whatever that means…and protect the children from anything scientific as far as I could tell. No evolution, not even mention of homosexuality existing…basically, if it’s not in the Bible, it wasn’t taught! They did teach math and English but everything was based on the Bible…as they interpret it. I would assume from their program that Catholics were not welcome. I could be wrong, but I doubt it…plus, we have a good catholic school here. They charged a tuition from the get go, too. Quite high tuition unless you went to certain churches where you’d get discounts. They’ve lost any government funding now as I understand and I really don’t expect them to last much longer. Last I heard, their enrollment was decreasing.

Charter schools don’t have a ton of funding, but that’s still no excuse to open one in a disability-unfriendly warehouse! Yikes.

They were in the warehouse for two, maybe three years while their school was being built.

 

[JonNC]

Are you saying that a private school can’t be given public monies?

If a private school receives public money (private colleges do, btw), that doesn’t make it a public charter school. The name “charter” school means it has to receive a charter from the state government. charters must be renewed. State legislatures pass statutes which lead to regulations that govern those charter schools. In North Carolina, for example, students must take end of grade / end of course tests.

Does public refer to the openness to all students, or to the governing structure?

Yes.

 

[JonNC]

But doesn’t that mean that only the children who can leave would benefit from the charter? What about the other kids? Don’t they deserve better.?

An important reason why states should not put a cap on the number of charters that can be granted.

 

[JonNC]

Well, bear with me here. I’m having a hard time understanding how a private non profit can run a “public” school. Maybe that’s on me.

They would have to do it within the guidelines of the state statutes that established the charter.

 

[PaulinVA]

An important reason why states should not put a cap on the number of charters that can be granted.

Do you see a time when the majority of students in a district are not going to the public schools but to the charters?

I’m not saying that’s bad. It’s …interesting.

 

[JonNC]

Do you see a time when the majority of students in a district are not going to the public schools but to the charters?

I’m not saying that’s bad. It’s …interesting.

I honestly doubt.
Charters today seem to represent about 6 to 8% of Total public school membership. While I expect that to grow, I don’t every see it at 50% or more.
There is still a good bit of opposition, from many though not all progressives, teacher unions and the like. To the extent they hold power, they will limit charter availability.

Finally, I don’t see that as the goal of public charter schools. I see the goal as providing a public choice, an alternative to traditional public schools. Traditional public schools provide a significant and important service. I want them to be better, not eliminated.

 

[PaulinVA]

Traditional public schools provide a significant and important service. I want them to be better, not eliminated.

I agree with that!

 

[cloistered]

Broken Promises: Half of All Charter Schools Close by Year 15

 

[Ridgerunner]

Traditional public schools provide a significant and important service. I want them to be better, not eliminated.

Agreed, but the public schools have a long way to go to be as good as they were decades ago (rich districts excepted) But we need to realize a Biden (Harris really) presidency will mean the end of Catholic Schools. Ultimately, they will require that Catholic schools do things that violate conscience. Don’t wonder about it, the Obama administration tried that in the Hosana Tabor case with Lutheran schools. If the government had won that case, Catholic schools would have been next on the agenda. Lutheran schools were the first target because the Obama government figured LCMS was weaker, financially, than the Catholic Church in America.

 

[blackforest]

Most new restaurants close within a year.

What do you believe this article contributes to the discussion?

 

[cloistered]

The churn of charter schools causes a great deal of wasted tax money. Many of them that received tax monies never even opened.

Also, it is detremental to children to have to have to adjust to new schools/teachers. A lot of charter even close down mid-year.

 

[Pattylt]

I quickly read through this linked report and some interesting facts came up…

Almost 50% of charter schools close within 15 years…one in four within the first five. This causes a huge displacement of students. Some schools only gave days or weeks notice…one gave one day!

There are some for profit charters. Arizona allows them plus some use for profit management. This seems important and several firms use public funds to purchase the property of the charter which they are not required to relinquish upon closure.

A much higher percentage of charters close in low income areas. Most were closed due to failure of academics and fraud than any other reasons. Many never met enrollment numbers and some just financially collapsed.

It seems there are varieties of ways that charters can be established and success certainly isn’t guaranteed. Closing charters is estimated to have displace over a million students currently. Things to think about?

 

[blackforest]

They have less money to educate the poor, the handicapped, the non-english speakers, the foster kids; the are left with less money for the students who cost the most.

This is incorrect. Charter schools don’t “take money away” from district schools. Both are public schools, so the money simply follows the child to the public school of their choice, whether district or charter. So it only takes money from one school to another.

The churn of charter schools causes a great deal of wasted tax money. Many of them that received tax monies never even opened.

You’ve made a case for increased federal funding of charter schools, not against it. Federal funding would take care of the two main reasons cited in your link - underfunding and mismanaged funding. The latter is remedied by contracting with a non-profit CMO.

Also, it is detremental to children to have to have to adjust to new schools/teachers. A lot of charter even close down mid-year.

I would depend on the child and how long they have at the school. It may be “detrimental,” but it’s also inevitable when they move on to the 6th/7th and 9th grades. Also, you may be oversimplifying matters. Those detrimental changes are due to a variety of complex factors, including gentrification, increasing rents, employment instability, and housing unaffordability all forcing constant moves. (Note that charter schools, at least in my state, cover a much, much broader district then public schools, enabling children to remain stable at their school long after they’ve moved).

I also don’t think that moving children back into decrepit, impoverished, and/or under-performing schools hoping that everything somehow “gets better” is the solution. I’m not sure you’ve made the case to deprive children of the opportunities offered by charter schools.

 

[JonNC]

Agreed, but the public schools have a long way to go to be as good as they were decades ago (rich districts excepted) But we need to realize a Biden (Harris really) presidency will mean the end of Catholic Schools.

It might be. Sander’s pan for “free” public college will certainly destroy private universities and colleges, probably part of the plan.

Ultimately, they will require that Catholic schools do things that violate conscience. Don’t wonder about it, the Obama administration tried that in the Hosana Tabor case with Lutheran schools. If the government had won that case, Catholic schools would have been next on the agenda.

Had EEOC won, and the ministerial exception been eliminated, Catholic and Lutheran school would already be gone.

Lutheran schools were the first target because the Obama government figured LCMS was weaker, financially, than the Catholic Church in America.

Certainly smaller snd more congregational. It also happened to be the case that came up.

Just like the HHS mandate, it points to the necessity of Christian churches, particularly those with orthodox Christian views of abortion snd the like, to work closely together.
As Ben Franklin said, “We must all hang together , or assuredly we shall all hang separately.”

 

[JonNC]

The churn of charter schools causes a great deal of wasted tax money

Most public charter schools run on a much tighter budget that traditional public schools. They have no central office with scores of employees. I think, if you are looking for wasted tax dollars in education, look no further than the federal Department of Education.

Many of them that received tax monies never even opened.

Source, please.

Also, it is detremental to children to have to have to adjust to new schools/teachers. A lot of charter even close down mid-year.

Children move to different schools all the time.
Again, source please that “a lot” shut down mid-year.

By the way, there are things I agree with Diane Ravitch on, snd things I don’t. Where we might agree is there should be no federal charter school program. Where we might disagree is I think there should be no federal department of education at all.

 

[Annie]

But doesn’t that mean that only the children who can leave would benefit from the charter? What about the other kids? Don’t they deserve better.?

All children deserve a good education. What you are suggesting is that the educationally superior charter schools, since they cannot provide that better education to all the children, should not exist.

I have been following education off and on since the 1970s, and have read about education further back than that.

What I have seen is that the more centralized the schools became, the fewer parents could be involved. Desegregation, while a good thing in one way, pretty much destroyed the connection between the neighborhood and the school. Concurrently, we had a huge breakdown of the family.

Since then, we have tried new methods of teaching, smaller class sizes, lots of accessories, increased testing and consequent micromanaging of the classroom, computers… more and more and more money, with the results that the situation either remained the same or got worse.

So, yes, all students deserve a good education, we just seem unable to provide that.

If charter schools are providing better outcomes, perhaps their use should be expanded rather than restricted.

 

[PaulinVA]

If charter schools are providing better outcomes, perhaps their use should be expanded rather than restricted.

Most studies say they provide outcomes the same as the public schools. So, I’m on the fence about them. As long as they don’t hurt the public schools, I guess they are okay.

I think that statewide standardized testing has been the single biggest detrimental policy in the past few decades. It has stifled innovation and taken the fun out of teaching and learning.

 

[Ridgerunner]

The Dem party is profoundly anti-Catholic as an organization. Julian Assange is not an admirable character as far as I am concerned, but he sure did peel back the curtain on that.

 

[JonNC]

Most studies say they provide outcomes the same as the public schools. So, I’m on the fence about them. As long as they don’t hurt the public schools, I guess they are okay.

Again, public charter schools don’t hurt public schools bethel are public schools. They don’t take money from public schools because the money follows the child.
That said, it helps to look at this from an individual student standpoint. Some Stu will do very well in a traditional public school. It serves their needs. Other kids do very well in a public charter. By providing public options, there is a chance we serve more kids better.

I think that statewide standardized testing has been the single biggest detrimental policy in the past few decades.

There is nothing wrong with standardized testing. The problem is what we do with that data. If we use it in a disaggregated way to fill the needs of individual students, great. If we use it as the stick to heat schools and teachers with, not so much. Schools and teachers need to be held accountable, but standardized tests plugged into a VAM ( value added measure) does great damage.

It has stifled innovation and taken the fun out of teaching and learning.

Used the latter way, this is most certainly true.