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ElizabethPH
Guest
Yes but not because the clone won’t have a soul.
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maggie2
Guest
I think that, because the Church believes that IVF children do have a soul, it’s not unreasonable to assume that the Church would take the same stand with cloned children and declare (if needed) that a cloned human would have a soul.
It’s funny the differences in how people view cloning, though. Again, I 100% believe that it is wrong, but it was interesting reading saylo’s last post - about “continuing” the “host” human by cloning him or her. I actually view it as a totally seperate human being, only with identical DNA (like a twin). Not saying that one way of thinking is better than the other. I just hadn’t really thought of it like that (still don’t
.
It’s funny the differences in how people view cloning, though. Again, I 100% believe that it is wrong, but it was interesting reading saylo’s last post - about “continuing” the “host” human by cloning him or her. I actually view it as a totally seperate human being, only with identical DNA (like a twin). Not saying that one way of thinking is better than the other. I just hadn’t really thought of it like that (still don’t
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betra2000
Guest
Here is an interesting question. Can the human clone be from God? I mean, the cells to make the clone have to come from a human that was made from God. I am not accepting of this cloning in any way, but, a fellow Christian brought this up to me.
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maggie2
Guest
I think - yes - absolutely. I mentioned in an earlier post that it’s awfully presumptous of us to believe that we can “create” something as complex as a human (or even that we can create something as simple as a grain of sand!).
It’s God who does the creating. Not man. God would not create something with the purpose to be inherently evil.
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ElizabethPH
Guest
Saylo,
Would you agree that if therapeutic cloning manages to grow an embryo for stem cell harvesting you would be for that since the clone doesn’t have a soul??
Would you agree that if therapeutic cloning manages to grow an embryo for stem cell harvesting you would be for that since the clone doesn’t have a soul??
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ElizabethPH
Guest
All humans have value, including any future clones, because each bears the imprint of God.
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Sir_Knight
Guest
This is not entirely true. A clone of you will not have your memories and depending on what life experiences it is exposed to, could turn out to be very different from you.
We see this naturally in identical twins. Identical twins are clones of each other – one is an exact copy of the other and yet the church teaches that both have a soul.
Where does the soul come from with identical twins? One is an exact copy of the other and yet the church teaches that both have a soul.
That is your opinion. It may or may not be correct. People originally speculated that IVF babies would not have souls but the church decided otherwise.
One soul each and one baptism each just like with the natural cloning process that produces identical twins.
Yes, hopefully.
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betra2000
Guest
So are you saying that it is ok to clone?
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maggie2
Guest
NO! Are you saying that man is capable of creating a human being?
I’m also not saying that I believe tha God is ‘okay’ with cloning. I believe that God is capable of bringing good out of the sins of man.
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ElizabethPH
Guest
Because someone has the right understanding that a clone does have a soul does not make them in favor of cloning.
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saylo
Guest
So the Vatican proclaimed a clone would have a soul? Link, please?Yes but not because the clone won’t have a soul.
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ElizabethPH
Guest
I didn’t say that. But show me where your link is that says the Vatican says a clone would not have a soul.
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SwizzleStick
Guest
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SwizzleStick
Guest
Oops, for some reason my link did not work, at least not directly, so let’s try this again:
ewtn.com/expert/expertfaqframe.asp?source=/vexperts/conference.htm
FROZEN EMBRYOS AND CLONES
Do human embryos and human clones have souls?
The Church affirms that human life is sacred from conception to natural death, thus asserting the inviolability of all human beings. So, the question is really, are embryos and clones, if ever produced, human beings?
This question is answered adequately by philosophy and science. Science shows us that different kinds of existing things, called a being, belong to specific categories of being. Among living beings we can determine from the genetic makeup of the individual what kind of being it is. Human sperm and egg cells have only half the complement of human genetic material, and a limited lifespan. They do not replicate and organize themselves in any way. They are “human” in that they come from human beings, but they are not human beings. However, after they unite to form a fertilized ovum all the genetic material that will ever be needed is present to constitute a human being. Furthermore, other than needing a special environment at different stages (whether the womb or the cradle), all that will determine their growth is the unfolding of the genetic plan contained within and the addition of nutrients and time. This cannot be said of sperm and egg. Their independent life is fixed. The life of a human being is not – all it needs is the right environment, food, water, oxygen and love. Whether two cells or two billion cells, this is true.
In the case of frozen embryos, if they can be revived and if they are then still living, then they are human beings, and all human beings by definition have a soul. Since such embryos have developed into human children we know this to be true. The same would be true of clones. If the processes, no matter how artificial and unnatural, result in a being that is materially human in makeup and can live and develop into a child, then that child will have a soul. No creature as materially complicated as a man can live without the spiritual form which theology calls the soul.
Answered by Colin B. Donovan, STL
ewtn.com/expert/expertfaqframe.asp?source=/vexperts/conference.htm
FROZEN EMBRYOS AND CLONES
Do human embryos and human clones have souls?
The Church affirms that human life is sacred from conception to natural death, thus asserting the inviolability of all human beings. So, the question is really, are embryos and clones, if ever produced, human beings?
This question is answered adequately by philosophy and science. Science shows us that different kinds of existing things, called a being, belong to specific categories of being. Among living beings we can determine from the genetic makeup of the individual what kind of being it is. Human sperm and egg cells have only half the complement of human genetic material, and a limited lifespan. They do not replicate and organize themselves in any way. They are “human” in that they come from human beings, but they are not human beings. However, after they unite to form a fertilized ovum all the genetic material that will ever be needed is present to constitute a human being. Furthermore, other than needing a special environment at different stages (whether the womb or the cradle), all that will determine their growth is the unfolding of the genetic plan contained within and the addition of nutrients and time. This cannot be said of sperm and egg. Their independent life is fixed. The life of a human being is not – all it needs is the right environment, food, water, oxygen and love. Whether two cells or two billion cells, this is true.
In the case of frozen embryos, if they can be revived and if they are then still living, then they are human beings, and all human beings by definition have a soul. Since such embryos have developed into human children we know this to be true. The same would be true of clones. If the processes, no matter how artificial and unnatural, result in a being that is materially human in makeup and can live and develop into a child, then that child will have a soul. No creature as materially complicated as a man can live without the spiritual form which theology calls the soul.
Answered by Colin B. Donovan, STL
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Sir_Knight
Guest
Well that puts to bed the theory that clones will be possessed by spirits from the abyss.
Overall, a very good and thought provoking discussion.
Thumbs up to the author who started it.
Overall, a very good and thought provoking discussion.
Thumbs up to the author who started it.
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saylo
Guest
Throughout this thread all I ever stated was “The Vatican is opposed to cloning…”
I did not go into detail because I am not privy to the details. I can only tell you the Vatican is opposed to cloning. Whether a clone has a soul or not has not been established in the secular or spiritual world as yet.
This thread prompts inner and deep senses. Opinions here seem more on the side of a clone “having a soul” but that does not mean it does have a soul. Both sides of the issue are invited to express their senses on this topic.
Cloning is evil and it mocks God. It is also in a nebulous way seeking to find eternal life by successions of cloning thereby eradicating God altogether.
Cloning is the absolute height of egocentricism.
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saylo
Guest
Very lenghty and informative. But it does not address the question of a clone “having a soul.” Just because life can be brought forth by cloning (pets have been cloned) does not mean a soul is contained in that life.
It is not uncommon that phylosophy and science clash with the spiritual.
Cloning is a secular manuever to bring about a life…but it CANNOT inject a soul into the end- product.
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maggie2
Guest
The last paragraph addresses the question of a clone “having a soul”.
“The same would be true of clones. The processes, no matter how artificial and unnatural, result in a being that is materially human… then that child will have a soul.”
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SwizzleStick
Guest
I respectfully disagree. It addresses that in the last paragraph excerpted below:
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saylo
Guest
Thank you. The last paragraph is nothing more than an opinion. It is not authoritative whatsoever. The author(s) and their (name removed by moderator)uts on this topic are merely speculative and is NOT doctrinal. One could bemieve it ot not believe it just as opinions here by posters.
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