Would anyone care for frankenstein food?

[Lisa4Catholics]

dirtydog:

I would submit that you need to understand it is very hard to define exactly what a “human” gene is. If I remember correctly, 97% of “human” genes also are present in chimpanzee cells, so if the “human” gene is present in chimpanzees, would you feel better if we call it a “chimpanzee” gene? My point is that at the level of individual genes, we have the same ones as all kinds of creatures. Also, don’t think that genetic engineering is new. It’s been part of horticulture for thousands of years. It’s just that we now have the technology to do it without using crossbreeding.

Well they know if they are getting them from a human or a chimp

 

[dirtydog]

Lisa4Catholics:

Well they know if they are getting them from a human or a chimp

O.k. - but genes are simple chemicals, not your soul. They are formed (DNA) from combinations of guanine, cytosine, adenine, and thymine. Whether they come from a human biopsy or a chimp, they are the same chemical, and despite their origin, they will then be replicated as needed. So tell me what the difference is between say, AGTCCCCGA from a human and AGTCCCCGA from a chimp.

 

[rastell]

dirtydog:

O.k. - but genes are simple chemicals, not your soul. They are formed (DNA) from combinations of guanine, cytosine, adenine, and thymine. Whether they come from a human biopsy or a chimp, they are the same chemical, and despite their origin, they will then be replicated as needed. So tell me what the difference is between say, AGTCCCCGA from a human and AGTCCCCGA from a chimp.

But there is a DIFFERNCE between a human’s body and a chimp’s body: On the last day there will be a resurrection of a person’s BODY, not just his/her soul. A chimp’s body is not resurrected. That leads me to believe that there is a real difference in the physical body of a human being and a lesser creature! Scientific tests cannot detect everthing.

 

[rastell]

dirtydog:

Also, don’t think that genetic engineering is new. It’s been part of horticulture for thousands of years. It’s just that we now have the technology to do it without using crossbreeding.

Not comparable!

Naturally allowing plants and animals to multiply by exposing them to particular individuals is not a violation of the natural law.

However, combining the genes from different species (where it would be impossible for them to breed naturally) is totally unnatural and, in my opinion, a serious affront to God.

 

[rastell]

Brendan:

I made zero claims that this is immoral. .

I really do not see how anyone cannot be horrified by the mixing of human genes in animals and even plants.

 

[Brendan]

Naturally allowing plants and animals to multiply by exposing them to particular individuals is not a violation of the natural law.

You still haven’t address my question about that.

When you say ‘natural law’ are you refering to Thomistic Natural Law or Newtonian natural law.

Which one is being violated?

 

[Brendan]

I really do not see how anyone cannot be horrified by the mixing of human genes in animals and even plants.

Why should I be ‘horrified’. Should I be horried to see diabetics have a plentiful supply of human insulin?

In fact, that’s another question for you. Is using human genetics in E.Coli bacteria to produce large quantities of insulin objectively immoral?

 

[rastell]

Brendan:

You still haven’t address my question about that.

QUOTE]

About what?

 

[rastell]

Brendan:

Why should I be ‘horrified’. Should I be horried to see diabetics have a plentiful supply of human insulin?

You should be horrified by the degradation of the human body when scientists use human genes in animals and plants. Do you understand the biological processes involved?

 

[rastell]

Brendan:

I didn’t say humans are not made up of something more. They have a soul. All the rest is the same.
The fact is, humans ARE up of the same elements. Does that mean that a carbon from a human is any more special than a carbon from a cow?

It seems this statement of yours “They have a soul. All the rest is the same.” is not in agreement with the position of the Roman Catholic Church. The Catechism of the Catholic Church states:**

"The unity of soul and body is so profound that one has to consider the soul to be the “form” of the body:[234] i.e., it is because of its spiritual soul that the body made of matter becomes a living, human body; spirit and matter, in man, are not two natures united, but rather their union forms a single nature. "

christusrex.org/www1/CDHN/visible2.html

 

[rastell]

Brendan:

You still haven’t address my question about that.

When you say ‘natural law’ are you refering to Thomistic Natural Law or Newtonian natural law.

Which one is being violated?

**Both are being violated. **

 

[Brendan]

**Both are being violated. **

OK we’ll cover the Newtonian one first.

Is F=ma being violated? How about Ek=1/2mv^2

does 2+2 now equal pi? Does it require that C=55mph?

Which physical law is being violated?

 

[Brendan]

It seems this statement of yours “They have a soul. All the rest is the same.”** is not in agreement with the position of the Roman Catholic Church. The Catechism of the Catholic Church states:

"The unity of soul and body is so profound that one has to consider the soul to be the “form” of the body:[234] i.e., it is because of its spiritual soul that the body made of matter becomes a living, human body; spirit and matter, in man, are not two natures united, but rather their union forms a single nature. "

christusrex.org/www1/CDHN/visible2.html

That supports my position far more than yours.

Humans are a union of body and soul. That is what defines humanity.

Your position seems be that the genes define what is human. It is a short sited approach, for it denies the spiritual component. That they actually mean something in God’s plan, other than a guide on how to orgranize the matter that makes up our physical existance.

The body is meaningless without the soul and the soul is meaningless without the body. Without the soul there is no human, just matter. And it’s that matter that you are so tied up about.

Not the union between the two.

 

[rastell]

Brendan:

OK we’ll cover the Newtonian one first.

Is F=ma being violated? How about Ek=1/2mv^2

does 2+2 now equal pi? Does it require that C=55mph?

Which physical law is being violated?

A little sarcasm perhaps? Or perhaps flaunting a level of education and intelligence far above we mere mortals?

BTW, don’t you mean C=65mph?

 

[rastell]

Brendan:

That supports my position far more than yours.
Humans are a union of body and soul. That is what defines humanity. Your position seems be that the genes define what is human. It is a short sited approach, for it denies the spiritual component. .

I never denied the spiritual. It is you who denied the true value of the human body.

Brendan:

The body is meaningless without the soul and the soul is meaningless without the body. .

Agreed.

Brendan:

Without the soul there is no human, just matter. And it’s that matter that you are so tied up about…

But they are united, so what you are saying is absurd!

 

[StJeanneDArc]

These arguments seem similar to the ones advanced when organ transplantation first became possible.

 

[Brendan]

I never denied the spiritual. It is you who denied the true value of the human body.

Where??

But they are united, so what you are saying is absurd!

No, it is not absurd. When I get my hair cut, I am discarding genes.

The soul is united to our body, not to our genes. They are quite different.

I have great appreciation for the human body. It is you who are placing a far higher value on ribbons of nucleic acid that they warrant. They are matter unanimated by a soul. They never were a human body, only a ‘blueprint’ on how to manufacture a particular chemical used in a body.

And that same chemical is useful elsewhere to help mankind.

 

[Brendan]

A little sarcasm perhaps? Or perhaps flaunting a level of education and intelligence far above we mere mortals?

BTW, don’t you mean C=65mph?

No sarcasm. Just an attemp at reducto ad absurdem re:Which Newtonain Natural Law is being violated?

If you care to list which Natural Laws are being violated, and your reference for these laws (Newton, Augustine, Faraday, Aquinas…), that would suffice.

And my education level is that of a BS in Engineering and am currently a Theology student. Both of which are well within the realms of mortal intellegence.

And forumula I used are commonly taught in High School, so I presumed that all here are familiar with them.

 

[dirtydog]

However, combining the genes from different species (where it would be impossible for them to breed naturally) is totally unnatural and, in my opinion, a serious affront to God.

Ummm… this is exactly what I was referring to. We have been combining DIFFERENT SPECIES for millenia, and as I said before, something like 97% of human genes are already in chimpanzees. Even 50% of our genes exist in simple microbes. Genetically, you aren’t too separated from E. Coli. The fundamental functions of life dictate that cells on an individual level function basically the same way. There are only a few genes that actually cause differentiation. It’s that whole evolution thing… So if we find a gene in some sponge that lives in the thermal vents, and that gene can prevent 50% of cancer, are you going to be against using it through gene therapy because you’re afraid you will turn into a sponge?

 

[rastell]

Brendan:

I have great appreciation for the human body. It is you who are placing a far higher value on ribbons of nucleic acid that they warrant. They are matter unanimated by a soul. They never were a human body, only a ‘blueprint’ on how to manufacture a particular chemical used in a body.

And that same chemical is useful elsewhere to help mankind.

It’s not just a “blueprint” It is found in every cell. It is the body. Without it there can be no body.