Would anything make you seriously question the Catholic Church?

[Polak]

I think I touched on this briefly in another thread once.

This isn’t something I am recommending of course, but given the proper thing for Catholics to do is to go to what our Church is teaching us when we are not sure about something, could the Catholic Church do anything that would make you have serious doubts as to whether it has been corrupted/infiltrated (e.g. ordain women priests, say that gay marriage is okay, say abortion is okay)?

Or would you always follow what the Church is teaching, even if some of the things they teach seem odd to you, because they are the authority and we must trust them?

 

[Tis_Bearself]

This is like asking me if I’d leave my husband if he beat me, when my husband never raised a hand to me in all the decades I knew him and wasn’t known to be violent towards others either.

When the Church actually puts forth some seriously wrong teaching, I’ll worry about it then. Hasn’t happened yet and the probability appears low for the remainder of my life on earth.

Too many people seem to lay awake nights obsessing over whether the Church is coming to an end or is making some big mistake or might make some big mistake, instead of placing their trust in God and focusing on the mistakes they themselves make in their own lives.

 

[0Scarlett_nidiyilii]

Not the bad behavior of others.

I’m convinced of the truth and good sense of Catholic moral teaching, (although it’s a very challenging path), so even if “they” came up with a 100% proof positive smoking gun evidence that there was no God, I would still keep my moral code.

But I can’t say that seems likely.

I’ve watched folks try to find the thread that unravels the RCC for many years and it hasn’t happened yet.

 

[Montrose]

I think I touched on this briefly in another thread once.

This isn’t something I am recommending of course, but given the proper thing for Catholics to do is to go to what our Church is teaching us when we are not sure about something, could the Catholic Church do anything that would make you have serious doubts as to whether it has been corrupted/infiltrated (e.g. ordain women priests, say that gay marriage is okay, say abortion is okay)?

Or would you always follow what the Church is teaching, even if some of the things they teach seem odd to you, because they are the authority and we must trust them?

Nothing the Church teaches is odd.
I believe ALL Church teachings because I know they have the full authority of God supporting them.
Christ established the Catholic Church and entrusted it with the Deposit of Faith and gave it authority to teach in matters of faith and morals.
As God trusts his Church who on earth would be stupid enough to question it. That would be like doubting God.

 

[0Scarlett_nidiyilii]

To be fair, though, not everybody was raised with Church teachings or even exposed to it.

Bible literacy in the US is at an all time low.

And the culture permits a lot of things that are forbidden to the followers of Christ, and sadly a lot of Protestant churches have caved to the demands of the culture.

 

[Montrose]

To be fair, though, not everybody was raised with Church teachings or even exposed to it.

Bible literacy in the US is at an all time low.

And the culture permits a lot of things that are forbidden to the followers of Christ, and sadly a lot of Protestant churches have caved to the demands of the culture.

I am a convert. I was a born and brought up Methodist. I am 72 and converted in 1992.

 

[27lw]

“Would anything make you seriously question the Catholic Church?”

What do you mean by “question”?

My answer is yes, lots of things!

1. Vatican II
2. Abuse scandal and cover-up
3. Catholics who seem to undermine the Church from within, including clerics
4. “Interesting” taste in liturgical music
5. 1970s art style too prevalent

So yes, I “question” the Church, but stick with Her because She’s the One True Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church!

 

[Polak]

What do you mean by “question”?

I am referring to whether any potential teaching of the Church could ever make you seriously consider whether there is any point remaining, in fear that she is leading her flock astray. Some of the examples you give could well be considered. For instance, why aren’t the clerics who undermine the teaching of the Church from within, being dealt with? Vatican II has made you ask questions, but you’ve said you’re sticking with the Church. That’s great.

Let’s say after much deliberation, the Church officially stated that abortion is okay and a woman has a right to choose. Would you question that, but also accept that this is the one true Church so you’re sticking with her, or seriously question what is happening inside the Church for them to put forward such a teaching and consider whether you want to be in such a Church?

I suppose one option could be not accepting such a teaching, but remaining in the Church and trying to get to the bottom of why such a thing has happened.

This is like asking me if I’d leave my husband if he beat me, when my husband never raised a hand to me in all the decades I knew him and wasn’t known to be violent towards others either.

Well people in the Church of England may have thought the same a hundred years ago about ordaining women priests. It hasn’t happened in the hundreds of years their church has existed, so why would it happen in the future? Yet it did.

 

[Maximian]

Would anything make you seriously question the Catholic Church?”

What do you mean by “question”?

My answer is yes, lots of things!

1. Vatican II
2. Abuse scandal and cover-up
3. Catholics who seem to undermine the Church from within, including clerics
4. “Interesting” taste in liturgical music
5. 1970s art style too prevalent

So yes, I “question” the Church, but stick with Her because She’s the One True Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church!

Broadly I agree with this. But it also depends on the OP’s definition of the Church. Imagine a truly heretical Pope. Imagine a determined move to oust him by good holy church leaders. Imagine, in short a schism. I might be inclined to side with the opponents of the heretical Pope on the grounds that they are obedient to Christ and he is not.

But immediately the “if you’re not with the Pope you’re not Catholic” brigade would pipe up and say I was leaving the Church.

 

[John9]

My answer is ‘No’. Or, more correctly, I pray that my answer will always be ‘No’.

There are teachings I’m challenged by, obligations I would find it easier to be without, sacrifices I struggle with daily - but I guess they are my problem, not the Church’s.

 

[Polak]

Broadly I agree with this. But it also depends on the OP’s definition of the Church. Imagine a truly heretical Pope. Image a determined move to oust him by good holy church leaders.

That’s exactly it. There’s no question there are some ‘odd’ characters in the Church, to put it lightly. You have a movement of clergy who want to ordain women priests. You have clergy who are very sympathetic to the LGBT community, and by very sympathetic I mean, they praise PRIDE marches and tell people with homosexual urges and lifestyles that it’s completely normal. What if these types of clergy, in time, become the majority, and elect someone as Pope who follows through on their beliefs? I really do hope, with this being the one true Church, that it won’t ever get to that stage, and that while there might be some rogue clergy, some rotten apples, the very core and fundament of the Church stays firmly on the straight and narrow.

As I said to @Tis_Bearself, one hundred years ago, members of the Church of England would not have expected women priests and gay civil unions to be accepted, but it happened. I’m aware the C of E works a little differently, almost like in politics where a vote goes through different houses I believe, and one of those ‘houses’ includes lay people, but I’m just saying, I wouldn’t be so quick to rule out as impossible, any potential negative changes taking place in Catholic Church teaching.

 

[blackforest]

Wow. I love art and music but wouldn’t dream of abandoning an entire theology just because somebody didn’t share my tastes in either.

 

[DeSales111]

There will always be some in the Church causing scandal, either by their actions or their personal opinion theologies. Even though some wrong ideas have been floated from time to time by some within, the Church has remained without error in matters of faith since Jesus founded Her, and promised the Holy Spirit would guide Her. I trust our Lord, so until He himself comes and tells us the Church is no longer our vessel to salvation and no longer the pillar and bulwark of the truth… as St. Peter said “To whom else shall we go?”

While some of these liberal priests and fellow liberal laity cause me to get a little holy anger at times, I look back over 2000 years where the Church has been and I’m comforted. Jesus IS the head of the Church, and not just some invisible Church, but the One Holy Apostoic Catholic Church.

 

[Montrose]

As I said to @Tis_Bearself, one hundred years ago, members of the Church of England would not have expected women priests and gay civil unions to be accepted, but it happened. I’m aware the C of E works a little differently, almost like in politics where a vote goes through different houses I believe, and one of those ‘houses’ includes lay people, but I’m just saying, I wouldn’t be so quick to rule out as impossible, any potential negative changes taking place in Catholic Church teaching.

The teachings of the Catholic Church have been consistent and never changed in the past 2000 years. They will not change in the future and yes we can be sure of that because the teachings of the Church are the teachings of God.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

27lw:

Would anything make you seriously question the Catholic Church?”

What do you mean by “question”?

My answer is yes, lots of things!

1. Vatican II
2. Abuse scandal and cover-up
3. Catholics who seem to undermine the Church from within, including clerics
4. “Interesting” taste in liturgical music
5. 1970s art style too prevalent

So yes, I “question” the Church, but stick with Her because She’s the One True Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church!

Broadly I agree with this. But it also depends on the OP’s definition of the Church. Imagine a truly heretical Pope. Image a determined move to oust him by good holy church leaders. Imagine, in short a schism. I might be inclined to side with the opponents of the heretical Pope on the grounds that they are obedient to Christ and he is not.

But immediately the “if you’re not with the Oope you’re not Catholic” brigade would pipe up and say I was leaving the Church.

I could get on board with #1, #2, and #3, numbers #4 and #5 aren’t a deal-killer for me, don’t like modern liturgical music or art, but those things don’t touch on faith or morality.

Yet I remain. It’s pretty schizophrenic to remain in a church where those who go against her teachings, blow them off, disregard them, are actually treated better than those who adhere to them, but I’ve been living with that dysfunctional dichotomy for 45 years now, and I see no need to stop now. You wouldn’t have blood transfusion advocates just being left alone and promoted to positions of authority within the Jehovah’s Witnesses, and the LDS wouldn’t give “temple recommends” to people who drink and smoke, and make no bones about doing so, and neither would these sects “just keep their mouths shut” about people doing things like this.

So what’s our problem?

 

[vz71]

Or would you always follow what the Church is teaching, even if some of the things they teach seem odd to you, because they are the authority and we must trust them?

It comes down to what you believe.
Is the church, or is the church not, God’s Church.

If it is, then there is no question. One must conform to the teachings it provides. It has the authority, and though you may not like it or understand a particular teaching, you must obey.
If it is not, then you shouldn’t be following it in the first place.

As to questioning it…sure. All the time.
One must ask questions to gain an understanding.
But always remember that God is in charge of his church, and it will not lead you into error.

 

[annad347]

Isn’t the questions more if you placed your faith in God or man?

 

[stpurl]

Well, no, not really. As Catholics we believe that the Church is the Bride of Christ, and in such full union with Him that, as in a marriage, ‘the two are one”.

If every other person within the Catholic Church strayed away from its dogmatic and doctrinal teachings to the point of outward rejection, including the Pope, if ONE person stands firm in the Faith, the Faith endures. Of course if all that happens it just means the Second Coming is imminent anyway.

 

[bob4]

What if these types of clergy, in time, become the majority, and elect someone as Pope who follows through on their beliefs?

It might be good to recall papal infallibility here; the pope cannot bind the whole Church to that which is false.

 

[SantaFe]

Growing up Catholic as a kid, I did not really question the church, but as I got older and I had friends and family come out and get married, I begin to question the Church and have since become more Agnostic as I disagree with the Church on said issue and a couple others.