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misericordie
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Seems you are more focused on what guys MAY be thinking here or more on the fact that they are not noticing you? Humm??
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AlanFromWichita
Guest
Twins in the same swimsuit??? :tiphat:
Oops, back to confession…
Sounds like not all sizes fit her!
Alan
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AlanFromWichita
Guest
Because they are healthy males?
Oh, I meant, “not all men are like that…”
Alan
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chevalier
Guest
That’s something nice of you to say, Cadence. I understand that you’re speaking from an innocent point of view… but accidental thoughts about what an accidental girl accidentally wears is not the biggest problem. I don’t really see a girl in a standard bikini driving me to sinful thoughts if she’s acting normally. So yes, if the girl wears something more or less standard and acts normally, then it’s the guy’s job to keep his thoughts clean. But I would be reluctant to agree if we were talking about girls who choose swimsuits to make appearance. Okay, there’s a difference between looking pretty and arousing, but the moment the girl includes turning guys on a bit in her clothing calculations, she shares the responsibility. In my eyes, at least.
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MistyF
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No. I am new to having Christian values, and I certainly have a long ways to go. But that isn’t a problem I have, and I don’t need anything added to the ones I do have…
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adstrinity
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Alright, skipping the original question, there’s just a few things I want to say.
One, those “modest” swimsuits, are ugly and impractical, I think. A feminist had gripes with the swimsuits women had to wear back in the day saying that she doesn’t want to go swimming in more stuff than would be over a clothes line. Also, acknowledging that no world records would be broken in those, those are still ucky because how much more would the extra material slow me down?
…Not that I’d swim anytime soon. I am fat & typically wont wear a bathing suit. HOWEVER, I do wear tank/halter tops and shorts. BUT, that is dependant on the weather. I have discussed this with a friend, and, here’s the situation in a nutshell: There’s a difference between, “It’s hot” and “I’m hot!”. We were discussing how we don’t half mind Muslim women covering their heads completely because, on the other end of that, in our culture, you see 8 year old girls, 8 YEAR OLD GIRLS!!!, with writting across their butts of their low-cut pants and writting across their chest. EWWWW!!!
Point being, is one can dress appropriately for the situation without getting rediculous.
One, those “modest” swimsuits, are ugly and impractical, I think. A feminist had gripes with the swimsuits women had to wear back in the day saying that she doesn’t want to go swimming in more stuff than would be over a clothes line. Also, acknowledging that no world records would be broken in those, those are still ucky because how much more would the extra material slow me down?
…Not that I’d swim anytime soon. I am fat & typically wont wear a bathing suit. HOWEVER, I do wear tank/halter tops and shorts. BUT, that is dependant on the weather. I have discussed this with a friend, and, here’s the situation in a nutshell: There’s a difference between, “It’s hot” and “I’m hot!”. We were discussing how we don’t half mind Muslim women covering their heads completely because, on the other end of that, in our culture, you see 8 year old girls, 8 YEAR OLD GIRLS!!!, with writting across their butts of their low-cut pants and writting across their chest. EWWWW!!!
Point being, is one can dress appropriately for the situation without getting rediculous.
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jjwilkman
Guest
I agree! It isn’t the things a person wears so much as it is the person looking at them and how they interpret that. Put the blame on where it belongs…the person looking…not the person being looked at!
i am afraid i have to disagree. i think both parties are responsible.
women wear revealing clothing, supposedly because they want to be looked at. then when men look, they get upset. it is difficult not to look.
i also find it difficult to picture Mary Mother of God going to a beach party at the sea of gallilee. i suspect She might have had more important things to do.
i am afraid i have to disagree. i think both parties are responsible.
women wear revealing clothing, supposedly because they want to be looked at. then when men look, they get upset. it is difficult not to look.
i also find it difficult to picture Mary Mother of God going to a beach party at the sea of gallilee. i suspect She might have had more important things to do.
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MistyF
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That reminds me of the scene in The Passion of The Christ, where Jesus splashes water at Mary. I only saw part of the movie (so far), but I loved that they put that scene in, it made Him more of a “real” person in the movie than it would have been otherwise. I think we could all do well to realize that Mary, too, was a real person. Becoming so far disconnected as to forget that would be doing a disservice to her memory, I think.
Since there is no official Church teaching on the appropriateness of a particular item of clothing (to my knowledge…) then I think that to look down on a person, or to impose your own conscience upon them, is wrong.
I also wanted to say…guy’s chests sure are attractive to me. Society allows that they can go in public without a shirt. Is it not a double standard that my thoughts around them must be regulated by myself, and there’s generally no moral outrage at their lack of a shirt?
And one last thought…if I know that I cannot keep my thoughts clean around those men without a shirt…my own sins are the ones I have to concern myself with, and if I go to a beach, knowing that there will be lots of men with bare muscular chests then the sin is upon my own head. If I go to a park, where I do not know that there will be men with bare chests, but there happens to be one, then to sit and dwell upon it would also be my own sin if I were to not leave.
I know that if that same man stood in front of me, knowing what effect it would have on me, and flexed his muscles and flashed seductive smiles my way…then he would be sinning, as would I for sitting and watching him. But I wouldn’t be responsible for his sin, only my own.
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adstrinity
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Again, as I’m thinking about this, it’s the way an item is pagaged & marketed. There is a distinction between nudity in Playboy & in National Geographic. In the later, the photographer is showing how life is…and, that’s something to maybe discuss here…there are THOUSANDS of topless women walking around in Africa and South America in tribes there BECAUSE IT IS HOT, and, most everybody is naked. After a while, wont these guys there not be attracted to women being naked from the waist, up?
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AlanFromWichita
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Condemn it or not, men are wired to be sexually attractive to women, and in cultures where we wear clothes, immodest clothing is widely known by both men and women to cause men to become aroused. (Some women, too, but I’m not talking about that right now. )
We can accept it, hate it, love it, or whatever, that is a fact.
No that doesn’t mean that all men act like dogs. It just means that with possibly very few exceptions healthy men all have that built in propensity, cultivated by cultural programming, and do, in fact, find these clothes arousing.
Now to any woman who wants to say it’s all the man’s fault if they leer at you, you are welcome to judge whom you wish. For me, I do not wish to judge so I find the concept of “fault” irrelevant to my life. I’m just looking at causes and results.
If you want to stroll through a lion’s den with raw steaks strapped to your body, then I fault neither you nor the lions if you are attacked. Just be aware that is the natural response of the beast.
Am I saying it’s OK for a man to act on instinct? Certainly not. Women who test men, though, put themselves at risk.
Like Chris Rock said, he knows when talking to a bigger man, when to back off. Women, OTOH, will get all up into the face of a man and not get out even when he asks her to. Therefore, he doesn’t say it’s ok to hit a woman, just that he understands.
Alan
)We can accept it, hate it, love it, or whatever, that is a fact.
No that doesn’t mean that all men act like dogs. It just means that with possibly very few exceptions healthy men all have that built in propensity, cultivated by cultural programming, and do, in fact, find these clothes arousing.
Now to any woman who wants to say it’s all the man’s fault if they leer at you, you are welcome to judge whom you wish. For me, I do not wish to judge so I find the concept of “fault” irrelevant to my life. I’m just looking at causes and results.
If you want to stroll through a lion’s den with raw steaks strapped to your body, then I fault neither you nor the lions if you are attacked. Just be aware that is the natural response of the beast.
Am I saying it’s OK for a man to act on instinct? Certainly not. Women who test men, though, put themselves at risk.
Like Chris Rock said, he knows when talking to a bigger man, when to back off. Women, OTOH, will get all up into the face of a man and not get out even when he asks her to. Therefore, he doesn’t say it’s ok to hit a woman, just that he understands.
Alan
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jennstall
Guest
I don’t think nudity is the only or even primary attraction in pornography. I believe it is the attractive women in the lewd poses that are the main attraction (with the key words being attractive & lewd) and therefore pornography would still be popular if we all had to traipse around naked all the time.
As for the swimsuit issue, I’ve looked at those modest “swimsuits” and I can tell you right now I’d be at the bottom of the pool or the ocean if I had to try and swim in one of those. They might be appropriate for playing Volleyball on the beach, but they are certainly not appropriate for doing any actual swimming (not wading). Personally, I’m not a big fan of skin cancer so I don’t go sitting on the beach in the sun. The only time I’m in a swimsuit is at the swimming pool, where I am swimming and where other people generally are not paying attention to what I’m wearing because they are busy swimming as well.
A possible beach solution for someone intending to get in the water could be an appropriate one-piece and bring a robe along with you.
I feel sorry for the Moslem girl having to wear a t-shirt while swimming on a swimteam. She would never have won a race with that kind of drag in the water. (or did she take it off just before diving in?) Those new Olympic swimsuits are actually designed to reduce drag in the water, so Olympic athletes aren’t wearing them for modesty, they are wearing them because it lets them win races.
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otm
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So now you are taking that to mean all swimsuits?
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tuopaolo
Guest
Well if that clothing were a standard that everyone had to adhere to, she wouldn’t be at any disadvantage.
When did they change them? What did they look like before? Thanks for sharing this.
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cynic
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All this means is that women can’t go swimming, at least not without a giant tent on them that would cause them to drown. Apparently they also can’t do out in public without a neck high, ankle low dress, even in summer. Since when is exposing your forearm, calves, ankle or neck considered sexual?
Anyone, can make extreme statements and then claim it to be part of the truth, even if it means women are practically unable to experience normal life because of mens lust. I mean a pretty face can be a temptation - so a full burqa is it? Imagine never being able to feel the sun on your arms, never being able to ride a bike (trousers and shorts are EVIL!), in fact a lot of outdoor activities become impossible with this definition of modesty.
Anyone, can make extreme statements and then claim it to be part of the truth, even if it means women are practically unable to experience normal life because of mens lust. I mean a pretty face can be a temptation - so a full burqa is it? Imagine never being able to feel the sun on your arms, never being able to ride a bike (trousers and shorts are EVIL!), in fact a lot of outdoor activities become impossible with this definition of modesty.
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AlanFromWichita
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Perhaps you should see rule 8 of 10 rules for dating my daughter. I published these for my own daughter, and required her little boyfriend to read them and be very afraid. I may customize them sometime; as of now they are ripped off from Neal Boortz:
It works both ways, though. Boys have some responsibility to dress properly too, as mentioned in rule 3:
Alan
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Catholic_Heart
Guest
Hey Listener…I will be sixty-two this coming September 11th. I disinctly remember men, women and children happily swimming together when I was a kid…Swimwear was, for the most part, more modest than it is today, but really not that much different…execpet for the tiny bikins.
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fix
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Nope.
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chevalier
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@Alan: That’s quite a dress code. How about summer?
As for me… well, I don’t do dates in the casual sense (I believe asking out for a date is rude and accepting is imprudent if the girl isn’t already attracted on her end), but I have gone to night clubs with friends, even female friends who had boyfriends just for the sake of dancing and talking and having a beer or two. I have hung out with girls whose dresses with spaghetti straps ended on mid-thighs. I have also slow-danced quite a lot with the better friends who didn’t feel too alien to me for hugging (I prefer one hand behind the lady and the other out, anyway). I could probably recall evenings alone out in darkness before I even turned legally adult. I always kiss female friends on the cheek while guys can only get a handshake, and sometimes friends’ friends or family who are being introduced to me if they prefer such a form over kissing the top of the palm of the hand, which is what I normally do. I tend to lend them my arm when taking a walk (especially with an umbrella) and I generally tend to kiss the lady’s hand after dancing. Not to mention I always help the lady travelling with me with putting on or even removing her overcoat. As a matter of fact, I actually hold ladies when they trip or sway or when it’s cold and I have already given my jacket out and I stretch my hand out to them to help raise from the chair or the ground or descend from a wall or bus/train steps or some such. Funny thing… I’ve never had sex with any of those, with anyone in my life actually. Come to think about it, I haven’t French-kissed anyone and I could count closed-mouth kisses on my fingers unless mother counts when I was a toddler.
As for me… well, I don’t do dates in the casual sense (I believe asking out for a date is rude and accepting is imprudent if the girl isn’t already attracted on her end), but I have gone to night clubs with friends, even female friends who had boyfriends just for the sake of dancing and talking and having a beer or two. I have hung out with girls whose dresses with spaghetti straps ended on mid-thighs. I have also slow-danced quite a lot with the better friends who didn’t feel too alien to me for hugging (I prefer one hand behind the lady and the other out, anyway). I could probably recall evenings alone out in darkness before I even turned legally adult. I always kiss female friends on the cheek while guys can only get a handshake, and sometimes friends’ friends or family who are being introduced to me if they prefer such a form over kissing the top of the palm of the hand, which is what I normally do. I tend to lend them my arm when taking a walk (especially with an umbrella) and I generally tend to kiss the lady’s hand after dancing. Not to mention I always help the lady travelling with me with putting on or even removing her overcoat. As a matter of fact, I actually hold ladies when they trip or sway or when it’s cold and I have already given my jacket out and I stretch my hand out to them to help raise from the chair or the ground or descend from a wall or bus/train steps or some such. Funny thing… I’ve never had sex with any of those, with anyone in my life actually. Come to think about it, I haven’t French-kissed anyone and I could count closed-mouth kisses on my fingers unless mother counts when I was a toddler.
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wcknight
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wear a swimsuit ???
not on your life, she would never be so immodest, nor would she ever be a source for temptation for any of her children.
My mom never wore a swimsuit, and never wore anything revealing in the least. Mary, like my mom, comes from a different culture and different set of values. Mary would never fit into our culture of lax moral values and immodest dress.
Woman can still be modest and beautiful and attractive without showing anything. They don’t have to wear a burka, but they can be stylish and modest at the same time. It may be getting less possible with the more modern styles, but it was not that long ago, that styles were a lot more modest.
not on your life, she would never be so immodest, nor would she ever be a source for temptation for any of her children.
My mom never wore a swimsuit, and never wore anything revealing in the least. Mary, like my mom, comes from a different culture and different set of values. Mary would never fit into our culture of lax moral values and immodest dress.
Woman can still be modest and beautiful and attractive without showing anything. They don’t have to wear a burka, but they can be stylish and modest at the same time. It may be getting less possible with the more modern styles, but it was not that long ago, that styles were a lot more modest.
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AlanFromWichita
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chevalier said:
In summer I’d say she should join a cloister. Wait, they don’t have problems with… oh, never mind!
You sound like quite a catch. My daughter could use a few more friends like you to support her own beliefs. Stay innocent, never be a tease, and I believe the payoff will be tremendous.
Alan
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