Would I be welcome here.... IF?

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myrna:
To make a very long story short, Karl you asked me where I attend Church. After five years of wondering what was happening to the Catholic church, and begging Our Lady for my children’s salvation, (to lead them to her Son) I was compelled to hear a lecture that was advertised in our local newspaper. The lecture explained the crisis and since then (22 years now) I have been with C.M.R.I.
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Perhaps I have missed something in this thread or elsewhere in my knowledge of various Catholic movements. What is “C.M.R.I.”?
 
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Katholikos:
I love this Church, I love this pope. He’s da man! 🙂
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LOL! You’ve jsut brought back memories of a song made up by one of the Fransiscan Friars of the Renewal! It’s pretty much along those lines! It finishes with:
“I love the Church
I love the Pope
I even love my rope!”

Clare xx

This random aside brought to you by Clare- encouraging randomness since 1985
 
I thought a sedevacantist does not recognize the current pope and any post-Vatican II pope due to the reforms of Vatican II. Sedevacantists would also believe in the literal interpretation of “extra ecclesiam nulla salus” wouldn’t they? It is not just because they don’t accept the current pope, is it :confused:

Peace,
CM
 
SeanG

C.M.R.I. stands for Congregatio Mariae Reginae Immaculatae and for those who have never heard of my position, (sorry I thought everyone heard of us.) you are welcome to take a look at the web site of my Church, it also has a note there explaining Sedevacantism. cmri.org/cmri.htm

Churchmouse, Outside the Church there is No Salvation, you asked about this: Sedevacantism believes it the way it was intended for belief. In short if a person dies in the state of Sanctifying Grace they will save their soul, if not in the state of Sanctifying Grace they will NOT save their soul. Those in the state of grace although seemingly not a member of the Church are members through desire.

Since we are all sinners those outside the Church have a much more difficult time saving their soul because the saving Sacraments are not available to them, however God in His mercy has provided a special grace knows as THE PERFECT ACT OF CONTRITION given to those who most deserve His mercy.
 
Churchmouse, Outside the Church there is No Salvation, you asked about this: Sedevacantism believes it the way it was intended for belief. In short if a person dies in the state of Sanctifying Grace they will save their soul, if not in the state of Sanctifying Grace they will NOT save their soul. Those in the state of grace although seemingly not a member of the Church are members through desire.

Since we are all sinners those outside the Church have a much more difficult time saving their soul because the saving Sacraments are not available to them, however God in His mercy has provided a special grace knows as THE PERFECT ACT OF CONTRITION given to those who most deserve His mercy.
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Thanks! I may not agree with the concept of sacramentalism but your explanation was very eloquent. Thanks again 🙂
 
I’m not a sedevacantist.

I just want to know how to pronounce it. 😃
 
Just want to add my two cents here. I’d say the only person here who says you’re welcome would be Karl since it is his board, and since he says its’ okay…then no one else has anything to say about it.

But just realize that this goes both ways. You can’t bash other Catholics here because they like JP or at the very least believe he is a legitimate pope. (I’m sure Karl would agree, right, Karl?) Most Catholics here are loyal to the magesterium of the church Christ founded…which includes JPII.

So don’t bash us, and it’ll spare us all a lot of messy debates, okay?

I do have a question, however. You write:
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myrna:
In short if a person dies in the state of Sanctifying Grace they will save their soul, if not in the state of Sanctifying Grace they will NOT save their soul. Those in the state of grace although seemingly not a member of the Church are members through desire.

Since we are all sinners those outside the Church have a much more difficult time saving their soul because the saving Sacraments are not available to them, however God in His mercy has provided a special grace knows as THE PERFECT ACT OF CONTRITION given to those who most deserve His mercy.
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Thing is, priests who are not in union with Rome do not have the power to “officially” forgive sins. Wanna know why? They have no jurisdiction - no official community for which they speak. That being the case, being a sedevecantist your sins cannot officially be forgiven because your priest must speak for the official community of the faithful of the church. He can’t. His bishop is not given an official mandate from Rome to give him the power to do so. They have no diocese.

At least, that’s how I understand it per a canon lawyer I know. I’m sure Karl can correct me if i’m wrong, but I believe this is the case.

That being the case, how can you be in a state of sanctifying grace if you can’t get a legitimate confession?
–Ann
 
Just another protestant denomination.
As a convert myself - I don’t agree with all that is happening in the Catholic church either since Vatican ll but still believe the present Pope to be the true Pope. If I didn’t I may as well remained an Anglican.
I do agree with many of the statement made on the catholicintl site and they are not sedevacantists.
welcome though
 
Just a comment… A “perfect” act of contrition is one in which all the words are pronounced perfectly. I believe you mean " an act of perfect contrition" in which the contrition or sorrow for our sins is perfect. Big difference! BTW, you are welcome here.

Peace,
Linda
 
Sparky said… “That being the case, how can you be in a state of sanctifying grace if you can’t get a legitimate confession?
–Ann”

Without getting into a heavy debate I will say in short, don’t worry about my Confession, but you can pray for me.

I have Hope of obtaining heaven, however I don’t presume too.
 
myrna, wow, I sure am learning a lot in these forums! Thanks for explaining sedevacantism to all of us and for answering everyone’s questions with such patience. Just one question from me if you don’t mind.I noticed that you seem to have a special devotion to our Lady. JPII also has a strong devotion to Her and I was wondering what you thought about the Dogma proclaiming Mary to be Co-Redemptrix, Mediatrix and Advocate? Do you think this is good? And if it is proclaimed, will you not be able to believe it because it was proclaimed by JPII? Forgive me my ignorance, I’m just curious.(guess that was more than one question, sorry!)
 
Hello everyone:
I’m sorry, I just don’t get it??? Duh me.
Since getting the internet…the only thing I’ve been looking into is my Catholic Faith, and learning soo much.
My problem is that I’ve come accross several groups who say they are Catholic…but don’t believe in this, that or the other…
What I don’t get is, if you don’t believe in certain things about the faith, then why are you with it???
I’m sorry but I’ve read so much about how all these different groups want to change this and that, and are actually trying to get true Catholics to join them. This to me is very sad.
Of course you are welcome here BUT…why not just start your own Church? Does the Apostle’s Creed say “One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church???” How can you say that and not believe in or state that Our Beloved Pope John Paul II, is not our Pope.
Shame on you. What is it? You just don’t like or have a problem with authority…
Pope John Paul II is my HERO!!! I can actually say that I’ve never had a real hero…not since my conversion 14 yrs ago anyway. This Pope is special. I’ve been blessed to see him on 2 occassions. One was World Youth Days in Toronto. How Awesome it was!!! 500,000 young people shouting ‘Pope John Paul we Love you.’ This Pope is a living saint, he has done so much good for our Church… His cry to the Catholic Church especially priests and bishops lately…has been BE HOLY. Amen to that…
I am sorry to disagree with you on this…And of course you are welcome here, but I do think it is a shame that we can’t be one in unity, with the Catholic Church.
Sorry
Snuffy :rolleyes:
 
myrna said:
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I hope many people will respond to your question. For my humble part in this community, I certainly want to welcome you.

So please try to get comfortable and join in. There are a lot of points of view on every topic you can think of, and there is plenty of agreement and disagreement expressed in this forum. I hope you find it engaging.

I would suggest that you, perhaps over time, might become more willing to talk about JP11 and anything that bothers you. We can all be better informed about everything. If your views are worthy of your belief then don’t be shy. At the same time, you have to be willing to see if they will really stand up to the test of scrutiny.

I think that even if you find yourself disagreeing with different views expressed in these forums, you will feel that you have been treated with love and respect. You’ve shown courage and honesty, and those are character traits that everyone can respect.

I’m giving you reputation points on that alone. Welcome to the board. 👍 👍 👍
 
Hi legeorge, and thank you ALL … for all your kind replies. I have a medium to large collection of Catholic books all dated prior to 1962, some of them are truly treasures to behold. I make it a habit of wandering through used book stores, thrift stores, garage sales to search them out. One book in particular is Dr. Ludwig Ott … Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma with the Nihil Obstat and Imprimatur dated 1954 and my point is the Co-Redemptrix, Mediatrix and Advocate are explained very clearly; these teachings are nothing new. I myself remember learning all about them in grade school in the 40’s, 50’s and early 60’s.

I really don’t want to seem rude but after realizing the truth about JPII I have not paid much attention to his talking about this subject, since it seems to contradict his agenda to unite all denominations, it is my opinion that it might just be talk to pacify some of those followers who have devotion to Mary. Again these are truths the Catholic church has always believed and is really nothing new.

You might be interested in what the book says, therefore I will quote some of it now for you.

<<< Although Christ is the Sole Mediator between God and man since He alone, by His death on the Cross, fully reconciled mankind with God, this does not exclude a secondary mediatorship, subordinated to Christ. "To unite men to God perfectively appertains to Christ according to

2 Cor. V. 19. Therefore Christ alone is the perfect mediator between God and man, inasmuch as He reconciled mankind with God by His death … But there is nothing to prevent others in a certain way (secundum quid) from being called mediators between God and man, in so far as they, by preparing or serving (dispositive vel ministeraliter), co-operate in uniting men to God."

The Fathers called Mary the “Go-between”. A prayer ascribed to St. Ephrem says of her: “After the Mediator thou art the mediatrix of the whole world”. The title Mediatrix is attached to Mary in official Church documents also, for example, in the Bull “Ineffabilis” of Pope Pius IX (1854); in the Rosary Encyclicals “Adiutricem” and “Fidentem” (1940) of Pope Leo XIII (1895 and 1896); in the Encyclical “Ad diem illum” of Pope Pius X (1904). It has also been received into the Liturgy of the Church through the introduction of the Feast of Mary. Mariae Virginis omnium gratiarum Mediatricis (1921).

Mary is designated mediatrix of all graces in a double sense:
  1. Mary gave the Redeemer, the Source of all graces, to the world, and in this way she is the channel of all graces. (Sent. Certa.)
  2. Since Mary’s Assumption into Heaven no grace is conferred on man without her actual intercessory co-operation. (Sent,. Pia et probabilis). >>>>
The book goes on and on to explain Mary is the Mediatrix of all graces by her co-operation in the Incarnation. By her intercession in Heaven. If you are interested I could start another thread and just quote from this book, or you might try finding it on ebay or other internet sources.
 
To snuffy… <<<<What I don’t get is, if you don’t believe in certain things about the faith, then why are you with it???
I’m sorry but I’ve read so much about how all these different groups want to change this and that, and are actually trying to get true Catholics to join them.>>>>

My point is snuffy, I DON’T WANT TO CHANGE! Vatican II has changed the church and adapted to the world. Jesus Christ is the same, yesterday, today and forever and so is His Church.

We do live in confusing times. But this is foretold in the Bible.
 
Dear Pax, <<< If your views are worthy of your belief then don’t be shy. At the same time, you have to be willing to see if they will really stand up to the test of scrutiny. >>>

Believe me I am not shy, but from experience on message boards I have noticed that it is okay to believe JPII is the pope, and not obey him. Yet a person who says they will not obey him because he might not be a True Pope will be banned from the entire board, therefore it is much better to just discuss the Faith.
 
I welcome you…and hope that the truth will one day fine you or vice versa… remember when Christ told peter that the gates of hell would not prevail against you… in my view, to believe as you profess is to say the gates did prevail and Christ was just given to idle pratter… i wish you peace and luck in your search… i believe God led you to this forum for a reason… very few here who don’t believe that John Paul II has filled the fisherman’s shoes quite well… 👍
 
space ghost:
I welcome you…and hope that the truth will one day fine you or vice versa… remember when Christ told peter that the gates of hell would not prevail against you… in my view, to believe as you profess is to say the gates did prevail and Christ was just given to idle pratter… i wish you peace and luck in your search… i believe God led you to this forum for a reason… very few here who don’t believe that John Paul II has filled the fisherman’s shoes quite well… 👍
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It is said in the Traditionalist circles that because of the Traditionalist the gates of hell did not prevail.

We are keeping the Faith. If it wasn’t for the Traditionalist the Modernist would have already achieved what they set out to do, but because of US (Trads some call us) you have been given the indult Mass. Because of the voice of the Traditionalist there is more traditional Catholic teachings on the internet than the watered dumbed down teachings the new world order wants you to accept.

As St. Athanasius said, “you have the buildings but we have the Faith,” he said that in his day when many of the Catholic bishops fell into heresy. This is not the first time the Church had a crisis, there was a day when the Catholics did not know for sure who the True Pope was because three men were claiming to be the Pope. The Church was divided into three different camps and from what I understand Saints sprung out of all three camps during that crisis. So my point is, we MUST KEEP THE FAITH.
 
So just what did John Paul II do that was so wrong?

Luther rejected the Church when it didn’t fit his idea of what was really of the one True God.

Now sedevacantists reject a Pope because he doesn’t fit the idea of what is really of the one True Church.

Can you really have it both ways??

I am new at this game but hey, it’s obvious to me that either you believe and accept what the Church and God have ordained as a Catholic or you don’t. Either the chosen Pope speaks infallibly or there is no Papacy. Why would I be going through such a tough journey to absorb all the doctrines and teachings of the Church if I could just pick and choose or throw out what I want if it doesn’t seem to fit my idea of what the Church should be! And you are throwing out THE POPE??? That’s like lopping of the (earthly) head! Hence, and logically, nothing is sacred! Get rid of what you like! The Papacy is pivotal and who are you and I to determine who should take Peter’s Chair? There can be NO validity now for anything Catholic that sedevacantists argue for whilst still claiming to be Catholic. Christian, yes; Catholic no.

I would not even be considering the Catholic Church if it were pick and choose; that’s the point. It 'ain’t!

You are right that the Gates of Hell HAVE not prevailed against the Church because here she is in all her glory with John Paul II as our Holy Father.

The Pope is the world’s greatest disciple and missionary it seems to me, maintaining the boundaries of Christ’s teaching and reaching out with the same in LOVE. All he does and stands for is totally in keeping with Christ’s own mission and the one He has called us to. God bless the Pope!! and may God’s grace and blessing abound to you too Myrna.
 
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