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sdeco
Guest
HUH??? There has to be some impediment AT THE TIME OF THE MARRIAGE for the marriage to be annulled. You people were just telling me how terrible it would be to get divorced!!
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Eufrosnia
Guest
Getting sterilized being considered a sin is not a matter of Church law. It is part of natural law. So getting sterilized is an immoral act regardless of which religion or lack of religion one may be part of. It is like an act of murder. Regardless of whether you are Catholic or not, murder is immoral.Yes. Quotes like:
or
I am sure there are more…and I have seen so many in other threads making illogical conclusions like “so if you were injured and couldn’t have sex any more your husband would leave you. how awful of him”
These lines of reasoning completely fail to see that the other person involved (here, and in the majority of these threads) does not believe in the truth of Church teachings regarding sex and contraception. Here is a man who is a fallen away catholic who holds little value in the teachings of the church, but loved his wife enough to practice NFP with her for 10 years. What a monster!!
After practicing the only option provided for the church for 10 years, it has reached the point that that it seems that even NFP is not an option for this couple anymore…the marital embrace is likely to be completely taken off the table if she is to continue to follow church teaching. Of course he would react harshly! Sure, abstinence is doable and a marriage without sex can still be filled with love and intimacy…but,** in his mind, *abstinence is being forced b/c of church teachings. * It is not the same as being forced into abstinence b/c of injury or medical condition. I don’t understand why it is hard to see this reality and the “non-catholic” spouse always gets demonized in these situations.
As for the OP… I don’t have a good solution, but I feel terrible for you and I understand how difficult this must be for both of you.
What you are having difficulty with is seeing the gravity of the act of sterilizing. That in no way means that you are justified in thinking that it is ok to it because of that. The harm done, spiritually as well as materially is still done if one goes through with the act.
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Eufrosnia
Guest
You are correct. The other person does not seem to understand what an annulment means or possible way just saying that if one were to get married with that mindset, it is grounds for annulment. But your case obviously does not qualify for it.
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Brendan_64
Guest
Was I? I don’t think so. I think you must be mixing me up with someone else.
But if this man’s love for you is conditional on him having sex with you (even if it means one of both of you committing a mortal sin) then he doesn’t love you.
If you don’t think he loves you enough to stay with you if you had to abstain from regular sex, do you then think that this man loves you enough to lay down his life for you? Love is unconditional.
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sdeco
Guest
So you think I should get divorced? You honestly think that would be better for us and our kids than a vasectomy?
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thewanderer
Guest
That is kind of what the above quote sounded like. The OP is already married, so any pressure about sterilization for the sake of avoiding further children would not be an impediment at the time of marriage, but something that developed after marriage and so would not, in this case, be considered grounds for an annulment, unless one thought that an annulment were similar to a divorce. Perhaps this is not how you meant your post to come across, but that is what it sounded like you were saying.
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Brendan_64
Guest
No I don’t. I think you should stay together as God has commanded without committing grave sin such as one or other of you getting sterilised. Is your entire marriage and family relationship dependent on you having regular sex?
You ought to do what is right by God, not get sterilised (or collude in his sterilisation), and do what is right. If after this your husband chooses to walk away then that’s his choice and would be a demonstration of his lack of love for you or your children.
You try to paint it as if you are the victim and have no choice but to commit a grave sin. There is always a choice, whether you wish to admit it or not.
Have you spoken to your Parish Priest about this?
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Rico_S
Guest
Yet, another example
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Brendan_64
Guest
Divorce and annulment are two entirely different things. I never mentioned divorce at all. In fact when she accused me of this I really didn’t equate divorce and annulment in my mind as they are **very **different things. Annulment is not simply ‘Catholic divorce’.
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sdeco
Guest
And then I would be a single mother of four. How on earth will I support four kids by myself?
This is an absolute nightmare. I should have stayed single.
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sdeco
Guest
Then why do you think my husband wanting to get sterilized is grounds for annulment? He didn’t think that when we got married.
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thewanderer
Guest
Yes, but I think the problem was that in your post it sounded as though you thought Annulment was pretty much just ‘Catholic Divorce’. It sounded as though you were telling her that since an impediment to having children came up after they were married she could just go file for an annulment or something like that. Again, I am sure that is not what you meant to say, but that is what it sounded like you were saying.
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Brendan_64
Guest
OK then I was wrong on the grounds for annulment.
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Brendan_64
Guest
You are correct, it wasn’t what I meant to imply. My error was my understanding on the grounds for annulment, not on the nature of an annulment versus a divorce.
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Brendan_64
Guest
Do you really think your husband would walk out and abandon you and your children? He’s stuck with you all this time. Does he really love his children so little that he would do that to them? Leave them to struggle in poverty without financial support?
This is a serious moral issue however and you really need to talk to a priest about it.
Mary_Gail_36
New member
I think right now you are overwhelmed by the surprise pregnancy, coupled with a very difficult time managing your PCOS/ NFP.
Try to remain calm.
Make an appointment with your OB, to date your pregnancy, to make sure everything is ok. Maybe when you find out how far along you are, you might be able to interpret your chart.
Try to pray for guidance and acceptance. I’ll pray for you if you cannot.
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Rico_S
Guest
While the Church may see him as different b/c he was baptized catholic, I think the reality is the situation is basically the same…they do not share the same faith.
First off, I am not saying he is justified in making such a statement/threat; and I would like to point out his saying these things may very well be venting out of anger and frustration (which surely anyone can understand) and that when push comes to shove, won’t acutally follow through.
And second, he doesn’t understand nor agree with the morality of the situation here. So just b/c a spouse makes a decision that she/he thinks is a moral necessity, the other spouse must go along and submit to whatever that spouse says…regardless of cost? or at least if the cost isn’t immoral? I am thinking of some good analogies, but won’t waste time b/c they are always nit picked so that the point is lost.
And just to be clear, I am not arguing that him threatening the divorce is the correct course of action, I am simply pointing out how the demonization of this guy…and so many people in threads past in similar spots…it out of line.
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KCT
Guest
I’m sorry this aspect of marriage is so difficult. I’ll pray for you.
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The_Bucket
Guest
I don’t care for demonization of anyone, even if the choices are horribly, horribly immoral. In this case, I’m not demonizing the guy and I hope no one else does either. The frustration I’m sure is palpable, real and not trivial.
Folks that’s one thing that I think bears repeating and might be really useful for discussion when dealing with things like same-sex attraction/marriage. The Church teaches that one can commit grave sin by misusing sexuality, so therefore sexuality is not a trivial thing. Well if it’s not a trivial thing for God, why should it be a trivial thing for us? The reason that such sin rises to the level of “grave” is because it’s a really integral part of our nature. Yes, we are more than merely sexual beings, but sexuality is what allows us to be co-creators with God of new life. It stands to reason that it’s an important thing and rises above merely needing physical pleasure.
So let’s get that clear and out of the way. I’m not accusing anyone of blasting the guy for just wanting some pleasure, but I want this reminder out there. Sex is not just about physical pleasure; even for men. Even for men it’s about more than a mere “release.”
It’s about bonding and making a deep connection with another and, via the potential to create new life, with God. Sexuality provides us with the opportunity to fulfill our deepest desires for love and unity with other human beings and with God. The only other thing out there that gives us such a channel is the Eucharist.
I fully appreciate this man’s frustration and his desire to be intimate with a woman that he loves. I can understand how closing off that avenue would make one angry with the other spouse and with God. I understand that some people struggle with sin that they know is sin, while others struggle to believe in the teachings of the Church.
So I think castigating someone is out of order, but so is condoning even bluster about divorce over this matter. Probably best to say to the OP: “Even a frustrated comment about divorce is really an uncharitable expression and I’m sure emotionally wounding to you. You might want to seek out the help of a third party if these kinds of expressions are commonplace.”
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Frank_Drebin
Guest
Many Catholic counselors will accept no payment if you cannot afford it. Do not be put off by cost, since it is rarely an obstacle for a good counselor.
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