Would it be better for me to get sterilized, or my husband?

[JackieMom]

Sex on day 7 still breaks the STM rules. (I don’t know which method you practice). I know another woman who has conceived from sex on day 6 and day 7. So maybe this 5 day sperm thing needs to be reexamined, or maybe ovulation happened earlier (it doesn’t always happen on peak day).

It did not happen earlier. I use Marquette so ovulation was confirmed via testing as well as by temp. Plus, that was the 11th identical cycle in a row. The 5 day sperm thing DOES need to be reexamined. It’s simply bunk (at least for us.)

 

[Rose74]

Jackiemom: you are freaking me out a bit. I’m really hoping my husband’s sperm died 5 days before ovulation. I’ve never concieved that far out, but this month could be a first. We shall see. I’m 38 and I ovulated earlier this month than ever before. The last good eggs are jumping ship!

 

[Rico_S]

I ovulated on day 15, 8 days after intercourse. Sperm supposedly only live a max of 5 days and most no longer than 48 hours. It’s phase 2 before ovulation because of the chance of irregularity and the possibility of ovulating early. I did in fact concieve when it was supposedly “impossible.”

Just so you know your experience is not simply an outlier. The exact thing happened to us— twice!!..once 6 days and once 8 days prior to ovulation. (My wife just pulled out her charts from 10 years ago and yup…6 and 8 days).

According to the lit, this is imposible!! Definitely need to reexamine the 5 day sperm survival stuff.

 

[PeterJohn]

I’m sorry if I was rude. I ment no direct harm to anyone. I guess a bad day, mixed with being involved in a few threads with faulty advice being given lead me to jump to conclusions. Forgive me as I am an April fool today.

 

[Sillara]

I do not want to sin. “Death before sin”, as St. Dominic Savio used to say.

So I would not choose to be sterilized myself. (Sin of presumption involved there, too!)

But I love my husband dearly, dearly, dearly! I would not want him to sin, particularly for my sake!

My love for my husband would then lead me to continence, just as my love for him would do were he to be unable to have sex again.

It is a hard thing and a heavy cross to bear. I am truly sorry that you are in this situation, OP.

 

[ThyKingdomCome]

1. Many here will suggest that total abstinence is not that big of a deal, no more than a “bummer” and that if you have to abstain for another ten years it won’t be the end of the world.

Actually the vast majority of people who would suggest total abstinence would only agree with one of your 3 comments. It won’t be the end of the world. But this vast majority would also say that it would be a very big deal, would be much more than a bummer, but rather a huge sacrifice. The fact that something would be a big deal, a huge sacrifice, and very difficult, does not mean that one shouldn’t do it. It is simply preferable to hell.

Let me say that I hesitate to even say the word “hell” because someone will probably criticize me for saying it, but in my own life, when I am tempted to throw NFP by the wayside because it IS difficult and frustrating, I tell myself as difficult as it is, and as much as I don’t like it, I like hell less. That is a big motivator for me. I’m not making any judgment on the OP personally - wouldn’t be remotely qualified to judge where she will spend eternity. I just know the catechism that I’ve been teaching to my kids over the years, and the reality is that mortal sin kills the soul, and a person who dies without repenting and being forgiven of their mortal sin, goes there. Perhaps thinking that way doesn’t help everyone, but it does help me - sometimes the best I can do is to keep my eyes on the prize of “not hell.”

 

[Sillara]

Let me say that I hesitate to even say the word “hell” because someone will probably criticize me for saying it, but in my own life, when I am tempted to throw NFP by the wayside because it IS difficult and frustrating, I tell myself as difficult as it is, and as much as I don’t like it, I like hell less. That is a big motivator for me. I’m not making any judgment on the OP personally - wouldn’t be remotely qualified to judge where she will spend eternity. I just know the catechism that I’ve been teaching to my kids over the years, and the reality is that mortal sin kills the soul, and a person who dies without repenting and being forgiven of their mortal sin, goes there. Perhaps thinking that way doesn’t help everyone, but it does help me - sometimes the best I can do is to keep my eyes on the prize of “not hell.”

Yes. Yes. And yes.

 

[ThyKingdomCome]

Then maybe I just shouldn’t be Catholic anymore. I just can’t do this. NFP has made my life a living hell. It’s like torture.

What problem would this solve? The only thing that would change is what the people around you would say. But what the people around you say has no bearing on the state of your soul when you stand before God at your judgment. As “jilly” said, sterilization is a sin for all people, not just Catholics. And since you have the knowledge and understanding of this morality as a Catholic, were you to leave the Church, your sin will be just as serious as it would be if you remain in the church (a protestant who was never taught the truth and didn’t know better might be less culpable - but it would still be wrong, even for them). The only difference is that you would be adding another serious sin on top of that, of leaving the one true Church.

The way I see it, your moral options are:
—accept that you may continue to have unexpected pregnancies. Depending on how your body handles pregnancy/delivery, it could be that you are “meant” to have a large family, or it could be that you are “meant” to give up control or to give up your expectations about what it was supposed to be like.
—continue to research additional ways to recognize what is happening in your body and attempt a new or combined method of NFP. Perhaps this would be a combination of STM, Creighton, Marquette, etc. AND also being extremely conservative about when you have relations - ie, reducing relations to once per cycle (or less) and having them at the very lowest risk time of month for your situation.
—make the huge sacrifice of abstaining for an extended period of time after the baby is born, until the point when you and your husband have determined that you can handle another child.

None of these is easy. at all. Any of these will be a cross for you to carry. A necessary cross perhaps. I will pray for you.

 

[aspirant]

Sex is supposed to be the renewal of the wedding vows. It’s extremely important for Catholics. It’s extremely important for the relationship.

As beautiful and as wonderful as sex is, it’s not strictly necessary for spouses to continue having sex with one another. In some circumstances, it would actually be inadvisable (e.g. when it might endanger a spouse’s health) or even prohibited (e.g. if one’s spouse was in a coma). Having practiced the virtue of self-mastery (a.k.a self-control, continence), which promotes authentic freedom, helps make this easier.

The Church supposedly thinks that the procreative and unitive dimensions of sex are supposed to be equal. But then why do they insist every act must be procreative (even if the woman is already pregnant or past menopause) but they don’t insist that every act must be unitive?

This is an inaccurate representation of the Church’s teaching.

The Church does not teach that each sexual act “must be procreative,” not least because this is beyond the control of spouses. Rather, the Church teaches that “each and every marriage act must remain open to the transmission of life,” however remote; that the sexual act’s capacity for procreation not be deliberately frustrated before, during, or after sex.

Similarly, the Church does not fail to insist that each sexual act must be unitive. The Church teaches that “sexual pleasure is morally disordered when sought for itself, isolated from its procreative and unitive purposes.” Neither the procreative capacity nor the unitive meaning may be licitly separated from sexual acts: “man on his own initiative may not break {the inseparable bond} between the unitive significance and the procreative significance which are both inherent to the marriage act… Men rightly observe that a conjugal act imposed on one’s partner without regard to his or her condition or personal and reasonable wishes in the matter, is no true act of love, and therefore offends the moral order in its particular application to the intimate relationship of husband and wife.”

“If each of these essential qualities, the unitive and the procreative, is preserved, the use of marriage fully retains its sense of true mutual love and its ordination to the supreme responsibility of parenthood…”

 

[Brendan_64]

Then maybe I just shouldn’t be Catholic anymore. I just can’t do this. NFP has made my life a living hell. It’s like torture.

Leaving the Church in order to get sterilised will not lessen the sin committed by getting sterilised, quite the reverse actually.

 

[HolyRosaryChild]

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
…and what if God created You and your Catholic Husband to bring 6 beautiful one of His Healthy Children into His World, continuing His Catholicism, Jesus Scriptures and Faith?

At the end of the day, it is not our assets, materialism, looking for the grass that is not greener on the other side, not the extensive travel and seeing the world; it is Love, prayer, respect, kindness and “giving” following His Commandments as greatly as possible.

You will both be most Blessed for Loving one another and Your Children (His Children He has given you both and to His World), raising them as Catholics and continuing His World.

When my forties hit and my ovaries were drying up; a great sadness overcame me and if I could turn the clock back; I would have asked for (6) Children and had God’s (6) Children; the greatest Gifts on His Earth that any person is given by God.

God will provide all when we open up our Hearts to Him, trust and have full confidence in Him, to provide everything we have asked.

How beautiful and wonderful and Blessed are You both as Parents having a Family for Love and Companionship throughout the rest of your lives; never lonely on Birthdays, Easter and Christmas times, there for one another through thick and thin!

If God wants you to have His Child number 6 there may not be anything you and your Husband can do as He has done with Child Number 5 on the way!

He will provide all for Your Family if you all continue in your Faith in Him, attend Mass and Reconciliation, Pray and Fast.

Love and best wishes to you and your Family in God’s Unity.

 

[HolyRosaryChild]

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
“Child Number 4 I should have stated, my apologies”.

Did you originally hope or think about having 5 or 6 Children before or after you got married?

Am somehow feeling that you are both being Gifted by God with (6) Children; may be given the fact that before I got married it was my wish for (6) Children!

Love and best wishes Sister in Christ.

 

[sdeco]

The way I see it, your moral options are:
—accept that you may continue to have unexpected pregnancies. Depending on how your body handles pregnancy/delivery, it could be that you are “meant” to have a large family, or it could be that you are “meant” to give up control or to give up your expectations about what it was supposed to be like.
—continue to research additional ways to recognize what is happening in your body and attempt a new or combined method of NFP. Perhaps this would be a combination of STM, Creighton, Marquette, etc. AND also being extremely conservative about when you have relations - ie, reducing relations to once per cycle (or less) and having them at the very lowest risk time of month for your situation.
—make the huge sacrifice of abstaining for an extended period of time after the baby is born, until the point when you and your husband have determined that you can handle another child.

I can’t do any of those. I have to have c-sections for medical reasons. This will be my third c-section. I can’t just keep having c-sections; that’s very dangerous. I also had a very dangerous complication (severe preeclampsia) with my second child. We also have serious emotional and financial reasons to stop having kids. We are definitely not called to have a big family.

I have been trying different methods of NFP for ten years. Nothing has worked. It’s not going to.

Such extensive abstinence would be an enormous strain on our marriage. My husband would never agree to it. He might even leave me.

 

[sdeco]

Really? Having 3 children, and one on the way, has been “living hell?” I don’t think that came out the way you wanted it too. What method of NFP were you using? Because I don’t know any method which allows for sex when you don’t know what part of your cycle you are in. (I just got off a 100+ day cycle myself (lots of abstinence), not from PCOS but from being postpartum).

No, relying on NFP for the past ten years has been hell. I thought that was quite clear.

I use both STM and Creighton. I was observing my mucus the Creighton way, every time I went to the bathroom. It was completely dry every single day. Plus, I was taking Prometrium to induce a period, which should have kept me from ovulating until after I had my period. I still ovulated and got pregnant.

 

[Soren_Itenu]

sdeco:

Such extensive abstinence would be an enormous strain on our marriage. My husband would never agree to it. He might even leave me.

I speak as a husband here: the thought that any man would leave his wife because they must abstain from sex revolts me. I can’t understand how a man can say “I love you” to his wife and yet leave her over such a thing. Do you think he truly loves you?

 

[Jeremiah_29_11]

I can’t do any of those. I have to have c-sections for medical reasons. This will be my third c-section. I can’t just keep having c-sections; that’s very dangerous. I also had a very dangerous complication (severe preeclampsia) with my second child. We also have serious emotional and financial reasons to stop having kids. We are definitely not called to have a big family.

I have been trying different methods of NFP for ten years. Nothing has worked. It’s not going to.

Such extensive abstinence would be an enormous strain on our marriage. My husband would never agree to it. He might even leave me.

Is your husband a Catholic? Does he understand the Church’s teachings? Did you have pre-marital sexual relations? Does he base his love for you on your sexual relationship? This is very sad. At some point, one or both of you will not be able to manage sexual intercourse, what will happen to your relationship at that point? Does your husband use porn?

 

[jilly4ski]

No, relying on NFP for the past ten years has been hell. I thought that was quite clear.

I use both STM and Creighton. I was observing my mucus the Creighton way, every time I went to the bathroom. It was completely dry every single day. Plus, I was taking Prometrium to induce a period, which should have kept me from ovulating until after I had my period. I still ovulated and got pregnant.

Hmm, so if you have been using Creighton mucus checks, that means you haven’t been using internal checks right? Might I suggest that you might find your cervical sign (and internal mucus) a more reliable sign than just external, mucus observations. That way you can confirm ovulation and have the post ovulation time.

I think the other issue is that you were on “medication” that alters your cycle,(Prometrium) and thus were not within any of the NFP rules. The prometrium obviously failed, you (or it didn’t as you ovulated and thus would have gotten a period after your luteal phase, thus restarting your cycle, if you had not gotten pregnant).

 

[sdeco]

No, we did not have sex before marriage, not that it’s any of your business. We didn’t even do anything beyond kissing before marriage (through four and half years of dating). We went through marriage preparation, took an NFP class, and married in the Catholic Church. My husband was a devout Catholic when I married him. He didn’t lose his faith until after we had been married for several years and had children. Please tell me what I could have done differently. I did everything right.

 

[sdeco]

Hmm, so if you have been using Creighton mucus checks, that means you haven’t been using internal checks right? Might I suggest that you might find your cervical sign (and internal mucus) a more reliable sign than just external, mucus observations. That way you can confirm ovulation and have the post ovulation time.

I was also doing internal checks. There was no fertile mucus internally either. I was also told by my Crieghton instructor that external observations are more accurate anyway.

I have been checking my cervix every day for the past ten years and have never been able to tell when I’m fertile or not based on the cervix. There is no correlation with fertility whatsoever.

NFP doesn’t work for me.

 

[The_Bucket]

I speak as a husband here: the thought that any man would leave his wife because they must abstain from sex revolts me. I can’t understand how a man can say “I love you” to his wife and yet leave her over such a thing. Do you think he truly loves you?

This right here.

Look, I’m not one to downplay the difficulty of the Church’s teaching on sexuality. I’ve struggled with sexual sin for most of my life. Wouldn’t it just be so much easier if the Church was A-OK with pornography and masturbation! If so, I probably would not have become a porn addict because I would have not been so ashamed of myself.

Then again, if I had less pride, I would have simply confessed the sin, done penance and picked myself up every time I fell instead of avoiding confession out of shame and allowing the cycle to perpetuate. So the problem was with my own weakness, not the Church.

I fully concede that the OP has been dealt a bad hand. And I’m sure I’ll be facing an uphill struggle with NFP (not the deciding not to use it but the conservative nature of its use) after our third child is born. My wife too has medical reasons not to conceive for at least 18-24 months after a child and we probably can’t have more than four. So that leaves us with some issues down the line.

I can see how I might struggle with sexual sin. I can see how I might have a very tough time following the Church’s teaching. I can also understand that it’s going to be no picnic for my wife either.

But following God is not supposed to be easy. We fall down in this area of our lives just like we fall down everywhere else. Anyone else have so much confidence in God that you’re willing to do what Christ told the rich young man to do and go, sell all you have and follow Him? With a young and growing family, I’ve got a hard enough time putting ten bucks in the collection plate on Sundays much less selling all I have and following Christ.

This is not to say that I condone sterilization or artificial contraception. I do not. I also don’t want to downplay the real struggle that comes with following the Church’s teaching and God’s law on this matter. But you know what? Chastity is hard in general. Avoiding sexual sin as a single person is very tough. Chastity and the proper use of sexuality does not immediately become easy once you’re married!

I will not be one of those people who says “just follow your conscience, God will understand,” but I will also not say that God will not accept you if you fall down and truly repent. Making a “plan” to get sterilized and repent later, however, shows an element of presumption. God can forgive presumption just as much as any other sin, but presumption shows that we are willing to go the extra mile to erect another barrier between Him and us beyond the original grave sin. I caution you strongly against this. It will weigh on your conscience tremendously.