Would more Protestants become Catholic if it were not for Mary?

[pismopal]

I think the biggest thing that keeps Protestants out of the CC is the amount of love and passion some Evangelicals have. Let’s face it, Evangelicals are taught to dedicate their lives to Christ, build Churches and schools in countries stricken with poverty, etc.

It’s hard to tell a devout Evangelical who loves God more than anything and has witnessed miracles in Africa (people coming to Christ by the thousands) that they’re wrong.

Your biggest hurdle as a Catholic would be matching the love of an Evangelical and showing them that the love your Church has is as great as theirs.

You are obviously biased and that is fine if it were not for the fact that the Catholic Church dwarfs evangelicals in every category of ministries…world wide and not only contemporarily but historically, extending beyond efficient record keeping. You are simply wrong…not just wrong but epically… Gigantically wrong. And on top of your huge miscalculation of the ministries of the Church, you actually subtract any loving motivation for the Churches work for every human need, outrageously false on it’s face. On the subject of love…I have not read any accusation by any Catholic on this site toward any non Catholic denom that matches in inaccuracy, or lack of charity, yours, toward the Catholic Church and our ministries.

 

[Jon_S_1]

I think Mary is a big hurdle. It’s kind of out there for people to see as a symbol of Catholicism. It also doesn’t help that some cultures walk the line in veneration of Mary and often fall on the wrong side.

I honestly think the real issue though is authority.

In Protestantism. You are your own authority. It is just you and the Bible and you can find any church to fit your beliefs. It’s a very empowering feeling on the surface.

Submitting to church authority is really a foreign concept.

Of course a deeper look into this is what bring Protestants by the thousands into the Catholic Church. Once you realize Protestantism is entirely relativistic, where each individual is their own pope, then you either have to accept or seek the truth.

A look at history and showing the case for authority for determining the canon of scripture, is what got me to embrace Catholic Authority.

Once that happened everything else falls in place because I don’t need all the answers once I welcome the living authority of the church.

This is especially the case for evangelicals/non denominationals.

It may be less clear for Anglicans, Lutherans, and other more structured denominations.

 

[Celtic_Maiden]

I think the biggest thing that keeps Protestants out of the CC is the amount of love and passion some Evangelicals have. Let’s face it, Evangelicals are taught to dedicate their lives to Christ, build Churches and schools in countries stricken with poverty, etc.

It’s hard to tell a devout Evangelical who loves God more than anything and has witnessed miracles in Africa (people coming to Christ by the thousands) that they’re wrong.

Your biggest hurdle as a Catholic would be matching the love of an Evangelical and showing them that the love your Church has is as great as theirs.

You must be joking at what you Quote below.

Your biggest hurdle as a Catholic would be matching the love of an Evangelical and showing them that the love your Church has is as great as theirs.

Our Priests, Monks, Brothers, Nuns, give up getting married, and serving the Lord in all the various forms this takes, Running Hospitals, Soup Kitchens abroad, Schools for the needy , the Catholic Church is the biggest Charity in the world. You don’t have any men or women who take vows in order to follow the Lord more closely in the Evangelical Church, Catholics love the Lord so much that this is what they do, we have had Saints who have gone into Ecstasy while talking to the Lord, none of these things have happened in the Evangelical Church, not everyone who says Lord, Lord will get into the Kingdom of Heaven. As a convert myself there is no Church on Earth who Love the Lord more than in the Catholic Church that is why we have so many who take vows and consecrate themselves to Him, and attain holiness to a very high level, like St. Padre Pio. The Catholic Church has been around for 2000 years and founded by Christ, what person founded your Church and how old is it- not much. Where did you get the Bible from - yes that is right the Catholic Church.

Catholicism is Christianity at its fullest expression.
Catholicism is pre denomination. WE are the ORIGINALS.

Having the Bible but rejecting the religion that produced it , is like taking the writings of the Dalai Lama and following his writings, but rejecting him and the Tibetan Buddhism, sounds silly doesn’t it. So Why do it. If the writings are a reflection of the religion but you reject the religion from which they came, you are left only with a reflection, - Evangelical

 

[dronald]

You must be joking at what you Quote below.

Your biggest hurdle as a Catholic would be matching the love of an Evangelical and showing them that the love your Church has is as great as theirs.

Our Priests, Monks, Brothers, Nuns, give up getting married, and serving the Lord in all the various forms this takes, Running Hospitals, Soup Kitchens abroad, Schools for the needy , the Catholic Church is the biggest Charity in the world. You don’t have any men or women who take vows in order to follow the Lord more closely in the Evangelical Church, Catholics love the Lord so much that this is what they do, we have had Saints who have gone into Ecstasy while talking to the Lord, none of these things have happened in the Evangelical Church, not everyone who says Lord, Lord will get into the Kingdom of Heaven. As a convert myself there is no Church on Earth who Love the Lord more than in the Catholic Church that is why we have so many who take vows and consecrate themselves to Him, and attain holiness to a very high level, like St. Padre Pio. The Catholic Church has been around for 2000 years and founded by Christ, what person founded your Church and how old is it- not much. Where did you get the Bible from - yes that is right the Catholic Church.

Catholicism is Christianity at its fullest expression.
Catholicism is pre denomination. WE are the ORIGINALS.

Having the Bible but rejecting the religion that produced it , is like taking the writings of the Dalai Lama and following his writings, but rejecting him and the Tibetan Buddhism, sounds silly doesn’t it. So Why do it. If the writings are a reflection of the religion but you reject the religion from which they came, you are left only with a reflection, - Evangelical

You have not been reading the entire thread have you?

 

[dronald]

You are obviously biased and that is fine if it were not for the fact that the Catholic Church dwarfs evangelicals in every category of ministries…world wide and not only contemporarily but historically, extending beyond efficient record keeping. You are simply wrong…not just wrong but epically… Gigantically wrong. And on top of your huge miscalculation of the ministries of the Church, you actually subtract any loving motivation for the Churches work for every human need, outrageously false on it’s face. On the subject of love…I have not read any accusation by any Catholic on this site toward any non Catholic denom that matches in inaccuracy, or lack of charity, yours, toward the Catholic Church and our ministries.

I feel bad that I’m finding this entertaining, especially since I’ve been waiting outside a Cathedral to meet with a Catholic Priest about my conversion to Catholicism. You have all done a wonderful job proving my point that one can only win their brother with love. Read the entire thread.

God bless.

 

[Celtic_Maiden]

At first, thinking about how the issue of Mary has been quite hard to get around in my own spiritual journey, I would have said yes, more Protestants would become Catholic.

But thinking about it, the answer is in fact no.

Because if all it takes is the veneration and intercession of Mary to drive Protestants away from the Church, then I highly doubt they would have entered the Church anyway.

Because, what convinced me of the truth is the role Tradition plays, and the beliefs of the early Christians. The belief that Jesus founded His Church upon the Rock, Peter, and that this Church would not be prevailed over by the gates of Hell.

The Magisterium and Sacred Tradition are just as fundamental as Sacred Scripture. If a Protestant can see and understand the truth of the Papacy, then I can assure you that Mary will not pose too much of a problem.

When one accepts that Christ established one Church, that would be built on Peter, the rest follows eventually. It might provide difficulty, but certainly not complete dissuasion.

Now, if the dogmas surrounding Mary were something unrooted in Tradition, then you might have a point. But they’re not.

At the end of the day, if a Protestant was ever considering Catholicism, Mary would not be the number one problem, and would not be a main stumbling block. The number one problem, you see, is the authority and infallibility of the Church. Once one gets their head around that, and understands the scriptural backing for it, then the other doctrines are easier to understand.

To conclude, the gift of the Mother of God to the Church far outweighs any impediment that may be caused to Protestants. And to reiterate, while it may cause difficulty, a Protestant who is seriously considering the claims of the Catholic Church will not be dissuaded merely by Mary. I mean, it really is meaningless for someone to say “Oh, I can accept the authority of the Church, and the Papacy, and Tradition, and purgatory, and the Eucharist… But Mary, y’know, that’s just a deal-breaker. I can kind of see why the Church is infallible and all, but Mary just ruins it for me.” Y’see the problem here? Mary is never going to be the deal-breaker. It’ll always be the authority and origins of the Church.

And if Mary wasn’t there, then the question would just be “Would more Protestants become Catholics if it were not for purgatory?” or “confession?” or “infant baptism?” or “papal infallibility?”

If a Protestant could accept those above things, then Mary isn’t going to dissuade them. Cause a lot of confusion, difficulty and strife, sure, but actually prevent them from entering the Church? No way.

:clapping:

 

[Celtic_Maiden]

I feel bad that I’m finding this entertaining, especially since I’ve been waiting outside a Cathedral to meet with a Catholic Priest about my conversion to Catholicism. You have all done a wonderful job proving my point that one can only win their brother with love. Read the entire thread.

God bless.

Then its a shame you don’t take your own advice.

 

[JRKH]

I would disagree and say Mary is the stumbling block.

As an evangelical, I really had no idea that Catholics believed in transubstantiation. I never looked into it that deeply.

However, you talk to evangelicals about Catholicism and they will complain about Catholics worshiping statues, men confessing to mere men, and superstitious rituals, but what’s more frightening to an evangelical is what they see as idolatry of Mary, as a demi-goddess.

Not sure - when you say Mary is the stumbling block - if you actually mean** the** or a stumbling block.

So - linking this to the OP’s question - do you think that more protestants - evangelicals could overcome their other objections
(purgatory, prayers for the dead, saintly intercession, the papal office and authority, etc) if we did not venerate Mary to the degree we do?

My guess is that they would not. Mary may be the most obvious and visible barrier for some / many, but if you remove that barrier another will simply become “top dog”.

Just some thoughts

Peace
James

 

[jmcrae]

Not sure - when you say Mary is the stumbling block - if you actually mean** the** or a stumbling block.

So - linking this to the OP’s question - do you think that more protestants - evangelicals could overcome their other objections
(purgatory, prayers for the dead, saintly intercession, the papal office and authority, etc) if we did not venerate Mary to the degree we do?

My guess is that they would not. Mary may be the most obvious and visible barrier for some / many, but if you remove that barrier another will simply become “top dog”.

Just some thoughts

Peace
James

I think you’re right.

 

[dronald]

Then its a shame you don’t take your own advice.

What advice?

 

[fred_conty]

I believe there is a good case that because of Mary, more Protestants are becoming catholic.

Lots of catholics have left the church to join some other church. Yet many of them return later on. Noone loves a child more than its own mother, especially our Lady of Grace.

Mary has given us the green scapular which is a way back for the deepest of sinners if they trust in her words.

As far a native protestants, again she might be the one to start them thinking, for they are puzzeled about her importance to catholics, and therefore a good opening point of conversation and discussion.

Just a thought.

 

[Sacredheart1208]

Perhaps it is safe to say that good Christians of all stripes, obeying the call and command of Christ, do what they can to help the least of God’s children.

Jon

Jesus called for unity in His prayer for His disciples before His agony in the Gospel of John.

That they all may be one, as thou, Father, in me, and I in thee; that they also may be one in us; that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. John 17:21

And why would He leave His church with a leader with authority who is Peter, ie the Pope.

Look at the New Testament Letters and see how they talk about people going from the true faith and they throughout the letters correct wrongs and tell them to adhear to their teaching which was true.

I always think that if the Reformation was such a great idea and was supposed to be the restoration of Christs Church why did it break into 20000-30000 different denominations?

Jesus was about unity, He started the Catholic Church and any church outside of it, while still containing a small portion of the truth and doing good, do not contain the whole truth as the Catholic Church does.

I mean how can Protestants put down Catholics when their Sola Scriptura is not only not biblical but nothing in bible even hints to it! And not to mention a warped representation of Jesus’ teachings and saying what He said isnt actually interpreted that way or he reslly didnt mean that.

 

[Celtic_Maiden]

What advice?

Love one another, instead of the attitude you adopted. You advocated Love they neighbour etc, shame you did not approach your writings “with love”

 

[dronald]

Love one another, instead of the attitude you adopted. You advocated Love they neighbour etc, shame you did not approach your writings “with love”

I assure you that my posts are with love, I even stated that I feel bad finding entertainment from this.

My point is, many jumped to the conclusion that I was representing Catholics as people who do not do good, which was never my position. After I cleared myself up I was still attacked. This has been frustrating.

 

[jmcrae]

I assure you that my posts are with love, I even stated that I feel bad finding entertainment from this.

My point is, many jumped to the conclusion that I was representing Catholics as people who do not do good, which was never my position. After I cleared myself up I was still attacked. This has been frustrating.

Sorry, but you said,

Your biggest hurdle as a Catholic would be matching the love of an Evangelical and showing them that the love your Church has is as great as theirs.

This really makes it seem like you think Catholics have never shown love, or never done any good thing. We have not only “matched” the Evangelicals, but we were running circles around them 9 centuries before they even came into existence.

 

[dronald]

Sorry, but you said,

This really makes it seem like you think Catholics have never shown love, or never done any good thing. We have not only “matched” the Evangelicals, but we were running circles around them 9 centuries before they even came into existence.

And I recognize that, and am in turn becoming Catholic. So my advice to Catholics is to show others this.

 

[jmcrae]

And I recognize that, and am in turn becoming Catholic. So my advice to Catholics is to show others this.

What would you have us do? These things are well known. “St. Jude Hospital.” What is that, an Evangelical hospital? A secular hospital? Hello … ?

St. Monica School for Girls. Is that an atheist school, perhaps?

OH WAIT - maybe, since it’s named after a Catholic Saint, it might be Catholic?

Sorry, I don’t mean to seem sarcastic, but it seems to me that most people can tell at a glance which ones are the Catholic institutions.

 

[Bonnie]

If I remember the history I’ve read correctly, the first Protestants didn’t have a problem with Mary. Luther continued to honor her.

There are so many possible objections to Catholicism, some true, some not, that even if one objection were to be overcome, another would pop up in its place.

Even tho I wasn’t raised anti-Catholic, and heard nothing objectionable about Mary, I didn’t learn anything good about her either. She had a walk-on role at Christmas and that was about it. It wasn’t until I became a Catholic that I read Mary’s Magnificat, nor had I been aware that Mary was at the foot of the cross at Jesus’ crucifixion.

 

[dronald]

What would you have us do? These things are well known. “St. Jude Hospital.” What is that, an Evangelical hospital? A secular hospital? Hello … ?

St. Monica School for Girls. Is that an atheist school, perhaps?

OH WAIT - maybe, since it’s named after a Catholic Saint, it might be Catholic?

Sorry, I don’t mean to seem sarcastic, but it seems to me that most people can tell at a glance which ones are the Catholic institutions.

It’s fine, and at this point I’m not sure. When I am Catholic I’ll have a better idea of what it’s like being on the inside looking out. I really don’t have a solution at this point because I think that Evangelicals are doing amazing things and not recognizing what Catholics do for this world.

The reason why I say this is my solution is that when myself and others in the Church did missions trips (building Churches and schools, wells, etc.) how was I supposed to know that I was missing out on the fullness of truth? If a Catholic told me my beliefs were wrong, I would quickly dismiss them because of how much my Church has done for me. I couldn’t grasp how a Church that does such amazing things could be wrong.

 

[Prayer_Warrior]

I believe it is an issue of authority more than anything else. The Blessed Mother may be a stumbling block, so too the Sacraments, the Real Presence, etc. However, if one can come to grips with the authority of the Church as given by Jesus Christ and guided by the Holy Spirit, then all of the other obstacles will eventually fall into place (IMO).

I also think that some Catholic attitudes can be a huge obstacle to the conversion of protestants. This thread is a perfect example. If someone gives an honest perspective of how evangelicals view our Church, the best thing to do is respond in charity with the truth of our Church. Let’s tell them about our charities, our love for Scripture, our commitment to Jesus, etc. No need for anger, condescension, or sarcasm. In other words, let’s prove that evangelicals are mistaken–not only with statistics, of which we have many-- but with our love. Let’s remember 1 Cor 13:1-5-- because we could have the greatest Church on the planet (and do, IMO) but if we are without love all is lost.

Dronald-- Please do not give up; I appreciate your perspective as an evangelical (hopefully still wanting to convert). These points are exactly what we as Catholics need to know when engaging in discussions with evangelicals. PS. do you mind a PM? I feel compelled to clarify something that was posted on your other thread about your conversion, but know that it will derail the thread if I put it there.