Would tattoos offend a traditionalist Catholic?

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bbarrick8383 said:
What kind of parents would give permission to a 15 year old to get a tattoo? Obviously hes coming from a jacked up home already, might wanna do some severe background checks on him because that tattoo is probably not the only thing wrong with him.
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LOL, yeah good point.
bbarrick8383 said:
I’m sorry you got so offended LilyM. But if I was the father, then the boy would likely be from my “sheltered neck of the woods”.

a) As a father how am I supposed to know that, that would come through a questioning of the boy and checking him out.

b) In my neck of the woods it is.

c) Partially responsible yes, my parents were strict religious old school people, I did some **** wrong, I have tattoos, but while I was in their house I knew better. Most of what I did was after I moved out. When my dad caught me with a rap tape 15 years ago, you could not tell that it was a tape when he got finished with it.
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Yeah, my parents freaked when I bought a Limp Bizkit CD. Mom got mad when she apparently thought I was gonna get a mohawk, but she misunderstood - I was just gonna get my hair a little spiky. :rotfl:
 
A lot of people I know, do not know about my tattoos, and if they do, I have probably not told them why I have them. Seeing as how I will likely never meet any of you, I dont really mind.

I have a wolf, on my back. Its a memorial to to my Grandfather. He was a very rare type of man, he was always happy. He use to tell me stories of him being in the Army, so after finishing boot camp I had this one done for the bond that we shared. It wasnt picked out of a book and it wasnt a ****** cartoonish drawing.

My other is a gargoyle on my arm, it’s a sign of strength and protection and helped me to control my temper back in the day. Theres a lot more to that story but I wont waste anyones time with it. Custom drawn by a very good artist in Texas as well.

My FIL was a pretty strict conservative guy, he never once asked me if I had tattoos or why. He was extremely controlling of his daughter, but he still had the wisdom to judge his future SIL on his character. And for that alone, I give him the upmost respect.
 
forgive me for coming late in this thread. but my question is: are not tattoos something of the pagan world?

my boyfriend keeps getting them. he is covering his whole arm with colorfull tattoos. i particularly think that is a pagan tradition and no Catholics should be getting them. just my opinion.

Lord have Mercy.
 
wisdomseeker said:
forgive me for coming late in this thread. but my question is: are not tattoos something of the pagan world?

my boyfriend keeps getting them. he is covering his whole arm with colorfull tattoos. i particularly think that is a pagan tradition and no Catholics should be getting them. just my opinion.

Lord have Mercy.
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Christmas trees are pagan in their origin - so is the title Pontifex Maximus (Pontiff) for the Pope, so are Easter eggs, wedding rings, bridal veils and bridesmaids (designed to confuse evil spirits who might ‘jinx’ a wedding). Christianity has a long history of co-opting things that are pagan in origin, and there is nothing inherently wrong in doing so.
 
LilyM said:
Christmas trees are pagan in their origin - so is the title Pontifex Maximus (Pontiff) for the Pope, so are Easter eggs, wedding rings, bridal veils and bridesmaids (designed to confuse evil spirits who might ‘jinx’ a wedding). Christianity has a long history of co-opting things that are pagan in origin, and there is nothing inherently wrong in doing so.
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Good point!

Most of us on this forum are not Coptic Catholics, but their form of tattooing does not strike me as distasteful at all. Here is a link about some of that, but I cannot vouch for its accuracy, as the blogger sites very few sources.

poor-blogger.blogspot.com/2006/01/coptic-christian-tattoos.html
 
Godefridus said:
Anyway, that’s all background stuff. Now the question. I’m pretty sure there is no Catholic moral prohibition against tattoos. However, I have been to Catholic churches where the priest condemned it, calling it “self-mutilation”. I’ve been wanting to get a 5-6" tall shoulder tattoo that I designed myself, essentially summing up my theology. (I’d put a cross in the center).

Before I open the topic with her (I’m still in “make a good impression” mode) I thought I would bring it up here and see what traditional Catholics had to say on the issue.
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Get a temporary tattoo. Tattoos are expensive. So if you are willing to give money toward this expense, spend the money on an expensive long-lasting temporary tattoo. You can wear it as a trial run. Her opinion as well as your opinion after wearing it a while can shape your decision to go forward or not with permanently altering yourself.
 
ncstevem said:
Having or wanting tattoos is a sign of low-self esteem.

telegraph.co.uk/scienceandtechnology/science/5095591/Having-tattoos-like-David-Beckham-is-a-sign-of-low-self-esteem.html

I’m not one who normally subscribes to the psyco-babble of the ‘low self-esteem’ industry, but I’ll make an exception in this case.
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She added that not everyone who had a tattoo had poor self-esteem and that Beckham was unlikely to fit the bill.
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"I think that David Beckham would be the exception to the rule. We found that having tattoos was just one predictor of self-esteem and not everybody who has tattoos has low self-esteem."
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LilyM said:
Christmas trees are pagan in their origin - so is the title Pontifex Maximus (Pontiff) for the Pope, so are Easter eggs, wedding rings, bridal veils and bridesmaids (designed to confuse evil spirits who might ‘jinx’ a wedding). Christianity has a long history of co-opting things that are pagan in origin, and there is nothing inherently wrong in doing so.
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I see. it is like reclaiming the things that has always belong to God at one time. thks.
 
RUINATION_IPA said:
Nmoe,

The examples you bring up are like trying to compare apples with hostess ding dongs.
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Not really.
For one, early Church disciplines (and not so early Church) were not meant to inflict marks upon the body as a sign of vanity.
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No argument there.
A tattoo’s sole purpose is one big mark of vanity despite whatever sentimental attachment you may give it.
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Not true, the tattoo I had wanted to get had nothing to do with vanity, it was purely sentimental.
Second, I’m not sure what your point is in trying to dig up a Saint who branded herself. I’m sure if you were to ask the same Saint what she thought about tattoos she’d probably tell you how unholy they are. And of course I could probably just as easy find something from St. Alphonsus Ligouri or a host of other Doctors or Fathers of the Church whom just as easily condemn tattooing. And it goes without saying that when the Church declares one a Saint it does not neccessarily mean everything the saint did was absolutely correct and without error.
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Some Saints marked themselves for Christ, please provide a source for a condemnation of those actions by the Church.
However, I think in every text on moral theology out there (I can pull two off my bookshelf now if you like) it would be at a least venially sinful. What makes you think that an individual has a right to permanently mark one’s body? If I entrusted you with a fine piece of China that I made myself and you ended up breaking out your sharpie and doodling on it - that would be a clear violation of the creator’s rights over his property. Your body is not yours and you will be held accountable for what you do with it.
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So the Saints sinned in this?
P.S. Don’t dismiss what Fr. Rippberger has to say so easily. He is a highly respected Thomistic Theology Professor of Our Lady of Guadalupe Seminary in Nebraska (FSSP) - now stationed in Idaho. He knows his stuff.
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So do the Saints and the Church.
Also, I stand by my assertion that those who desire tattoos in their “adulthood” are unfit for my daughters (at least) as it shows a certain immaturity;a deviant adolescent behavior and unwillingness to think for oneself and more seriously: a spirit of worldliness. All reasons enough to not promote such a relationship. And yes, I’m sure there a lot of good people out there who have tattoos - lot’s of good God-fearing men - and I’m not saying there’s not. But if someone comes up who purports to be a good traditionally minded Catholic who takes his faith seriously and wants to raise a family of Saints and do everything right and then says he’s thinking about a tattoo - we’ll there’s going to be quite a few red flags going up.
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Please reread this and tell us which view happens to be yours, you can’t have it both ways.
If you got 'em: Fine (as the sermon says) - you’re under no obligation to get rid of them unless they’re of an immoral nature. But if you don’t currently have 'em - then don’t!
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I know holy priests (and we know of Saints cough) that have no problem with religious tattooing, so long as it isn’t excessive.
 
ncstevem said:
Having or wanting tattoos is a sign of low-self esteem.

telegraph.co.uk/scienceandtechnology/science/5095591/Having-tattoos-like-David-Beckham-is-a-sign-of-low-self-esteem.html

I’m not one who normally subscribes to the psyco-babble of the ‘low self-esteem’ industry, but I’ll make an exception in this case.
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Some do have low self-esteem and get a tattoo to feel better about themselves. Some do it as an act of rebellion, some do because their friends did…and some do it for holy reasons, who mark themselves for Christ. The Saints did it, and the Church has never condemned these actions. The image and the intention make all the difference.
 
daughteroftruth said:
Not really.

No argument there.

Not true, the tattoo I had wanted to get had nothing to do with vanity, it was purely sentimental.

Some Saints marked themselves for Christ, please provide a source for a condemnation of those actions by the Church.

So the Saints sinned in this?

So do the Saints and the Church.

Please reread this and tell us which view happens to be yours, you can’t have it both ways.

I know holy priests (and we know of Saints cough) that have no problem with religious tattooing, so long as it isn’t excessive.
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  1. Name the Saints who went to a tattoo parlour.
  2. Name the moral theology manuals that say that tattooing is not sinful.
 
RUINATION_IPA said:
  1. Name the Saints who went to a tattoo parlour.
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Getting the tattoo done professionally means that there’s less of a chance of infection (depending on where you go) rather than doing it yourself with a hot iron
  1. Name the moral theology manuals that say that tattooing is not sinful.
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I do not know of a book that has a list of what is not a sin, but I do know of several that name the sins we *can *commit. I first asked for a source that condemned a religious tattoo for a religious reason (like what the Saints did). *Excessive *tattooing is the only thing I’ve ever read of as condemned.
 
daughteroftruth said:
Getting the tattoo done professionally means that there’s less of a chance of infection (depending on where you go) rather than doing it yourself with a hot iron

I do not know of a book that has a list of what is not a sin, but I do know of several that name the sins we *can *commit. I first asked for a source that condemned a religious tattoo for a religious reason (like what the Saints did). *Excessive *tattooing is the only thing I’ve ever read of as condemned.
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i know one thing. a priest said once that we shouldnt carry on us any sacred symbols like Cruxifiction and others because we do unholly things and go to unholly places. it makes sense to me.

i went to this tattoo place the other day and i saw designs of many satanics figures, then i saw a picture of Jesus Sacred Heart by the sink. i heard nothing but curse words from the mouth of the tattoo artists. i also saw a picture of a pope being hung by a rope held by satan. i found this place to be very demonic. yet i saw this guy coming in with a tattoo of the rosary around his arm. if you ask me if this is a good thing, i probably say i dont think so. but yet what do i know.

no i would not tattoo my body. my boyfriend keeps getting more and more. he wont listen to me.
 
I have a tattoo on my forearm of a Celtic cross with a lion inside it, for the Lion of the Tribe of Judah. I have to cover it when I go to work, wrapping it every day with a cloth bandage. I got it the day before Easter the year I turned 18, when I was still a Protestant. I don’t regret it.

I do not have low self esteem, I’m a child of God. I was raised to dress myself well, speak well, not over indulge in alcohol, or be rude to strangers so I’m not “low rent”. I graduated with honors from high school and continue to do well in College, so I’m not unintelligent. I don’t date nonCatholics, I receive Confession more than any other Catholic I know, I love the Traditional Latin Mass, and tell my friends constantly that ABC is a mortal sin and just disgusting anyway. I pray the rosary almost every day, I cover the 11:00pm-12:00am hour of Perpetual Adoration at my Parish. I volunteer to teach CCD on Saturday mornings. I am not a CINO or Catholic who is ignorant of their faith. All of that and I’m 21, so I rather think I’m more mature than my average guy or girl in my cohort.

I want to get another one on my ribs.

I think some of you owe me an apology.🙂
 
Indeed. I have two tattoos. One is the Chi-Rho on my forearm (2x2 inches). It is there so I can see it and remind myself that I am forever marked for Christ, a slave to Him that gave His all for me. I also have a medium (4x6 inch) cross on my back to remind me of the cross that Christ bore for me.

The Chi-Rho has given me many opportunities to spread my faith and convictions as many ask what it means.

I do NOT have low self esteem, and frankly rarely do. I did NOT get them to mutilate my body, my body is a temple to Christ and I want others to know that. I did get them to honor my Lord and Savior.

Steve
 
RUINATION_IPA said:
  1. Name the Saints who went to a tattoo parlour.
  2. Name the moral theology manuals that say that tattooing is not sinful.
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1st I do not have a tattoo so I don’t have a dog in this hunt so to speak.

Your china logic is flawed, once again it would condemn mortification of the flesh. You cannot say to me that it is acceptable to use a discipline on my back that can scar oneself and a tattoo which also makes a permanent mark are different. Furthermore you cannot define intent in every situation. It would be as silly as you accusing people who use a discipline as having a obsession with S&M sexual practices. In fact more people probably use things of that nature today for that twisted reason than an imitation of Christs scourging.

I will agree though that Tattoos should be private so much as a person who scourges his back should not walk around with his shirt off.

I did not dismiss your priest, his arguments seem to work, but he did not examine them thoroughly enough to my satisfaction to take him at his word. I would rather imitate the Saint I found than imitate your scholar.

Catholic Catechism does not agree with these opinions. Nor does the history of the church. We can agree that vanity is a sin, we can agree that mutilation is a sin, we can agree that selfishness is a sin.

But a Tattoo that is not vain, that is not mutilation and is not selfish would therefore not be a sin.

Here is a deacon who condemns tattooing but also adds an *

“He said that body art as a form of adornment that is ordered to the ultimate good of the person and to humanity**** can be morally permissible** if it observes modesty and avoids vanity** — and if it respects the fundamental integrity of the human person, including the integrity of the body.”

You know what is really funny though for every priest you find that condemns it you can find one that says its okay but with criteria. ** It depends on who you talk to**

What we do agree on is that our bodies are not our property. What I fail to understand is why you are so in love with your original form of your body that you would not brand yourself as one of the lords flock. Are you asserting that we must love the original form of our body more than an exterior devotion to God? Is not a tattoo of a cross an exterior devotion to God if done so with that holy intent?

A man who chastises his body is sinning when it is selfish, when it is vain, when everyone knows about, when he does it for pride. But when he does it for sacrifice, for love, for Gods greater glory it is not wrong. ** Due to the history of Cross Tattoos that has already been stated it is more traditional than your opinion. (Early Christians, Coptic’s, Crusaders). I assert that it is even holier to do so than not.**

However I would assert that if a man did it this way it would be acceptable (St Alphonsus would back me up here read the 12 steps to holiness chapter on mortification)
  1. It was private
  2. It was a mark of holiness for love of god
  3. It was painful and he offered the pain to god
  4. It was done with permission from a spiritual director.
  5. It was a mark of penance or an acknowledgment of sin.
I am actually a huge fan of St Alphonsus and if you can show me where he condemns it I would be very interested.

By the way the burden of proof is on you. I don’t have to prove anything with moral theology books because the Church is mute on tattooing just not on excessive tattooing. It is mute on Tattooing just not on excessive tattooing. The church also condemns being drunk but not alcohol.
 
wisdomseeker said:
i know one thing. a priest said once that we shouldnt carry on us any sacred symbols like Cruxifiction and others because we do unholly things and go to unholly places. it makes sense to me.
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Gee I guess I will have to take off my scapular the next time I commit a sin too under that logic. Jesus came to save the sinners remember?
 
What is excessive?

I am tattooed…mostly on my arms, I have 17 of them.

I was baptized when I was 5 days-old. Attended Seminary and served as a US Marine.
I attend Mass twice a week (both forms) and some of my closest friends are priests.

Why is it the only time I hear this BS about tattooing is from one-hit wonders on the errornet?

Why is it the only people who throw rocks about low-self esteem are cowards who hide behind anonymous screen names?
 
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