Would the Church baptize aliens if they come to Earth?

[3DOCTORS]

Because in my belief God is life in abundance - I will not limit Gods creation because I want to be the most important of his creation. We do not know for sure whats out there but the mathematics of probability with the over whelming numbers says there is life out there - and God did give me a brain to think.

I’m always reminded of what God said to Job in a nutshell - how can you with your tiny little human mind perceive my creation , my plan - who are you but a man.

And no I didn’t do the math on the grains of sand - I didn’t think it was necessary.

I like this response. To me, it gets to the heart of the matter in an intelligent way.

We are at a time in our history when we are discovering for sure that there are at least planets around other stars (see planetquest.jpl.nasa.gov/ for starters) and by spectral analysis and other means we are becoming more and more able to discover if any of these planets are in their stars’ habitable zones where liquid water and the chemicals requisite for life of some form to develop.

Granted, complex and intelligent life such as humanity will require more specific parameters and the odds are that it won’t occur as often as simple microbial life might.

It seems to me that whenever any of these threads come up - and I’m a sci-fi geek so I catch most of them - a common response is “let’s stick our collective heads in the sand and smugly assume no other intelligent species can possibly exist” which to me is limiting the power of God. I feel embarrassed that my fellow humans choose to be so flippant.

If God chose to create other beings and to give some of them souls, He will have the means for them to be saved, whether that’s through us meeting them and preaching the Gospel to them, or through any means He chooses. It’s a mystery. And I’m not saying I know for sure that He has created any, but I don’t choose to presume He has not and never will.

Distance is a big factor as to whether we’ll come into contact with them if there are some. Someone mentioned 4-something light years - that’s just to the closest star, and that might not be a star with intelligent beings on its planets. The next intelligent species could be several entire galaxies away. But God created the Universe itself. And makes the rules.

The theology and what we would do if we did encounter other intelligent (and ensouled) beings would have to be a work in progress. Secular science has protocols in place for what would happen if SETI picked up a signal, how that would be disseminated to the world (and it doesn’t involve conspiracies to conceal it, btw). If First Contact was to occur, I think Church leaders would convene and pray asking God what we should do.

 

[Protestor]

How much more there might be depends far too much on the cosmology that turns out to be correct for an estimate to be meaningful.

And that is without getting into the knotty question of multiverses.

Those numbers were gotten first by the HUDF and the number was 100 billion approximately because they just straight multiplied they amount of galaxies they saw in a single viewing angle by how many viewing angles it would take to fill a whole sphere. Look thank you for calling me out but your assumption that this is based of a theory that is disputed is wrong. The galaxies we know about is more around in the 1,000’sto maybe 10,000’s we do not have the resources to survey more, yet. Make another thread about the multiverse if you would like to get into that subject.

 

[LibralAteoJesus]

To a culture that can cross the stars, our bombs would be no more than an annoyance.

I will believe in aliens when I visually see them. Personally, I don’t understand some people’s longing for them, as cuddly friendly Chewbacca’s or ET’s are far less likely than beings looking for colonial square mileage, zoo specimens, or slaves.

And I expect to be in Purgatory long before we are allowed to make “contact.” Such contact would only be devastating to human life in every way.

ICXC NIKA

Why do you demand visuality to accept the possibity of the existence of other biological material living species from other existent planets in the universe but when it comes to a spiritual god you don’t demand such a visuality?

 

[Protestor]

Not if you are talking about possibilities. For example, the ‘fine tuning argument’ as often presented as a ‘proof’ of God tends to assume that there is only one Universe. As a ‘proof’ the burden of proof is explicitly on it to prove this assertion.

Equally, as a hypothesis, the various different concepts referred to as ‘multiverses’ don’t have to meet a burden of proof to be worthy of consideration, they just have to be possible and (in order to continue considering them) to have some explanatory benefit.

Swings and roundabouts - if your reasoning for not considering the existence of aliens relies on assuming that this is the only universe, then you need to consider the possibility of other universes if only to show that they do not exist.

If you do not make a separate thread about this we will never come around to answering any question. This is what is horrible about forums the people get side tracked and never actually talk about anything. They just hop from one controversial subject to another.

 

[3DOCTORS]

Why do you demand visuality to accept the possibity of the existence of other biological material living species from other existent planets in the universe but when it comes to a spiritual god you don’t demand such a visuality?

Well, this is a little off topic but maybe I can help you out. It’s really quite simple - we believe in the material and the spiritual as different yet interacting realities each with different properties. I’ll make an analogy with a simple thing that we encounter daily, or at least in most parts of the world - water in its liquid state. Now say someone tells you about water vapor, which is water in its gaseous state. “But it’s invisible!” you say. Yes, but it exists.

The analogy isn’t perfect, because the entire material universe must be considered as a whole up against the spiritual realm as a whole, and the spiritual is not often perceivable by our material sensory apparatus. But at times God’s spiritual truth has been manifested to humanity, and we know enough about it to be in a position to each consider it and choose whether or not to accept it. Faith is required - faith also being a spiritual thing - to accept it.

I’d write more, but I risk getting in over my head; however, if you have a question, PM me and I’ll see if I can find a helpful resource to address it.

Now we’d better go see how John the Baptist and those ETs are getting along . . .

 

[DrTaffy]

Those numbers were gotten first by the HUDF and the number was 100 billion approximately because they just straight multiplied they amount of galaxies they saw in a single viewing angle by how many viewing angles it would take to fill a whole sphere.

Emphasis added to illustrate that you are confirming my point. We cannot see beyond the last scattering surface (the ‘cosmic background radiation’), but the universe could well be much bigger that the sphere englobed by that.

Look thank you for calling me out but your assumption that this is based of a theory that is disputed is wrong. The galaxies we know about is more around in the 1,000’sto maybe 10,000’s we do not have the resources to survey more, yet. Make another thread about the multiverse if you would like to get into that subject.

The multiverse is a whole different topic from how big this universe is. But I was just interjecting a relevant point.

Pardon me.

 

[Robyn_p]

Bothering me isn’t really a standard to base my thoughts on, but yes, these aren’t alone, including the doctrinal dogmas, the stories, magic, miracles, prophets, beliefs, gods, angels, demons, salvation, saints, heaven, hell, souls … and most of what is in the religious books, I don’t believe in a personal god or religion, for other scientific, rational and ethical reasons, I am also aware that truth isn’t always reassuring, however you might be able to see beauty in truth even if it may not appear reassuring at first.

Yes it’s true that many religions have opposing views of God and morality, but that doesn’t prove as much as you may think. It’s* possible* that all the confusion is evidence that there is no God or that He is impersonal, but that fact is also equally explainable by Original Sin, which says that man is made for God and relationship with him, but cut himself off and rejected Him and now must try and find Him using a fallen and damaged intellect. Both are plausible explanations, and I think in order to determine which one is right, we have to examine all the arguments. Neither of themselves prove God’s existence or non-existence.

Having false ideas about God and morality is par for the course with fallen man, since we’re trying to climb a mountain without a map, or any gear. We are going to get things wrong on our own. Just like if all the info I had of my physical father was some old pictures and letters, I would get a little right about him, but a lot of things wrong, even essential truths about what kind of person he is, and what he wanted from me. The fact that me, my brother and my sister might look at this same info and come up with opposite conclusions doesn’t prove my dad doesn’t actually exist or that he is unintelligible. The fact that we exist at all, and that he left these things for us to see, actually proves the opposite. But until he actually came and told us in person and showed us who he was, then we’re on our own.

That’s what we believe God has done in the person of Jesus. He revealed Himself and cut through all the confusion we had. He showed us the truth. We can’t get it right without Him. His coming changes everything.

As far as aliens and baptism goes,

1. There’s no reason to assume that if God did create other intelligent beings, they sinned like we did. So they wouldn’t necessarily need baptism.
2. If they did, God could possibly extend the merits of Christ’s sacrifice to them, I really don’t see why not. He extends it to all mankind, even those who weren’t alive at the time, He could go further, if He wanted, to extend it to all creatures with a rational soul. We really can’t tell Him not to. But I liked what 3DOCTORS said, if God did create other life with souls, which is certainly possible, then He would have provided a way to save them from sin if they fell. Perhaps through baptism, or perhaps through a means more suitable to them. Either way we know the way God has chosen to save us, and that’s really all that matters at this point.

I would just trust the Church to figure that question out if and when that ever became an issue.

 

[Protestor]

Why do you demand visuality to accept the possibity of the existence of other biological material living species from other existent planets in the universe but when it comes to a spiritual god you don’t demand such a visuality?

No one here can answer your question. That is real answer. The bible and tradition say nothing about aliens. Refusing to believe in christianity because it does not mention aliens is ludicrous. Aliens are not mentioned because they are irrelevant. Just because they never committed mans original sin does not mean that they have not committed sin which they would need forgiveness for.

I will repeat this aliens are a non-issue.

 

[Protestor]

Emphasis added to illustrate that you are confirming my point. We cannot see beyond the last scattering surface (the ‘cosmic background radiation’), but the universe could well be much bigger that the sphere englobed by that.
The multiverse is a whole different topic from how big this universe is. But I was just interjecting a relevant point.

Pardon me.

I get the point you are trying to make. I am sorry for seeming so touchy I have spent entirely to much time on this site today and I am just tired of never actually resolving problems. I guess I should just accept that nothing is ever resolved on the internet.

 

[3DOCTORS]

I get the point you are trying to make. I am sorry for seeming so touchy I have spent entirely to much time on this site today and I am just tired of never actually resolving problems. I guess I should just accept that nothing is ever resolved on the internet.

http://d3j5vwomefv46c.cloudfront.net/photos/large/60061809.jpg?1264458767

 

[GEddie]

Why do you demand visuality to accept the possibity of the existence of other biological material living species from other existent planets in the universe but when it comes to a spiritual god you don’t demand such a visuality?

Spiritual beings/realities are by definition invisible. Demanding visibility of them would be a contradiction in terms.

But biological beings are by definition physical, as such, must intercept light and reflect it. Unless they are microbial, which is not what is usually meant when somebody says “aliens.”

ICXC NIKA

 

[GEddie]

Not if you are talking about possibilities. For example, the ‘fine tuning argument’ as often presented as a ‘proof’ of God tends to assume that there is only one Universe. As a ‘proof’ the burden of proof is explicitly on it to prove this assertion.

Equally, as a hypothesis, the various different concepts referred to as ‘multiverses’ don’t have to meet a burden of proof to be worthy of consideration, they just have to be possible and (in order to continue considering them) to have some explanatory benefit.

Swings and roundabouts - if your reasoning for not considering the existence of aliens relies on assuming that this is the only universe, then you need to consider the possibility of other universes if only to show that they do not exist.

I never denied the multiverse as an argument against aliens; I simply decline to waste my neurons on the issue of aliens. There’s a difference.

As long as my human eyes cannot see them, aliens have zero connection to my life. They can as such wait until I do see them.

ICXC NIKA

 

[ffg]

If the alien was human, yes, they could be baptized.

The problem is that if humans started on Earth, the planet, then they are all here already.

But maybe one day we will populate another planet, and someone’s kin returns here, they would be alien to Earth, the planet.

 

[john330]

Why do you demand visuality to accept the possibity of the existence of other biological material living species from other existent planets in the universe but when it comes to a spiritual god you don’t demand such a visuality?

Ay, there’s the rub! You can create an infinite regress argument from classical mechanics that implies there is a god. You can also safely assume that there is life in the universe elsewhere, probably. There may be intelligent life, there may not. So intelligent aliens may exist. My point of view is: so what? It would be interesting, but is irrelevant because it would probably be impossible to contact them anyway. The reasoning we use to arrive at the existence of god is similar to the reasoning we use for aliens. If there is a god, I would say that this fact would be life changing for all of us. If there are aliens, it wouldn’t be life changing. Christians need not lose a wink of sleep over it. And would we baptize them? Since we can’t contact them, this point is also irrelevant.

 

[DrTaffy]

I never denied the multiverse as an argument against aliens; I simply decline to waste my neurons on the issue of aliens. There’s a difference.

So why respond to the thread to say that you won’t ‘waste your neurons’ thinking about the issue?

As long as my human eyes cannot see them, aliens have zero connection to my life. They can as such wait until I do see them.

Also an odd opinion to find here, coming from a Catholic. Can your human eyes see God?

 

[cazayoux]

Even if they requested it, wouldn’t then the baptism be irrelevant since the son of God came only to humans?

Some thought He came only for the Jews.
We know that heaven isn’t only for humans, since angels are there.
I would think that any being with a rational soul has a plan made for them by God.

michel

 

[glendab]

I think Dr. Taffy brings up a very valid point: the visible vs. the invisible Universe.

I’m about to go to Church today, where I will swear to God as I recite my Credo that I DO believe in all things, visible and invisible,…etc.

So why is it so hard to realize we don’t know all there is to know about the Universe?

No, I still don’t believe there are any life forms out there requiring Baptism, but if there were I wouldn’t be the one to deny it should they manage to come from across the Galaxy seeking it. Would the nine months of RCIA apply? Now THAT is the real question if you ask me. And good luck to their catechists!

Glenda

 

[GEddie]

Also an odd opinion to find here, coming from a Catholic. Can your human eyes see God?

They could, now that HE has become incarnated, were it not that they will most likely roll back into my head before they can see Him.

But even if I can never see Him, He definitely affects my life. Aliens do not, apart from the “philosophical implications” of their existence, which aren’t worth a flip IMNAAHO.

ICXC NIKA

 

[GEddie]

I think Dr. Taffy brings up a very valid point: the visible vs. the invisible Universe.

I’m about to go to Church today, where I will swear to God as I recite my Credo that I DO believe in all things, visible and invisible,…etc.

So why is it so hard to realize we don’t know all there is to know about the Universe?

No, I still don’t believe there are any life forms out there requiring Baptism, but if there were I wouldn’t be the one to deny it should they manage to come from across the Galaxy seeking it. Would the nine months of RCIA apply? Now THAT is the real question if you ask me. And good luck to their catechists!

Glenda

Is it any more hubristic to conjecture that aliens may not exist, or be reachable, than to imagine they would need or want a human religion?

ICXC NIKA

 

[DrTaffy]

I get the point you are trying to make. I am sorry for seeming so touchy

No offense taken, my own response was a touch sparky!