Of course I will ask my parishioners, once I’m a pastor. For now I am a lowly parochial vicar!You know, Fr., I do think this would be a great question to ask the parishoners at your parish and those in your surrounding community.
I think someone mentioned that getting feedback here may not give you the bigger glimpse. CAF does tend to draw the more conservative and traditional Catholic.
Just an observation.
we don’t use latin phrases in court because we don’t speak latin. I know what you’re thinking, there are latin phrases that are shorthand for certain doctrines or rules, but these phrases are spoken in english, e.g., “it speaks for itself” as a way of referring to these rules. there would be eye rolling if anyone actually used latin phrases routinely. ipse dixit, he said.
Hi, LL.
Then why do we use them on the dollar bill and the U.S. seal? Why do we have cities like Corpus Christi, Urbana, Cincinnati, etc.? Is there some mental block against the word “Latin”?
habit? because no one cares? because its not important? because it could be in etruscan and it wouldn’t make any difference?
Change it to Etruscan and see if doesn’t make a difference.
“Pro bono” is regularly in use among the legal set. Historians like “Qui bono?” And economists and philosophers are quite familiar with “Ceteris Parebus.”
those are terms of art. anyway, saying “pro bono” makes it sound more worthy than “free”.
You are spot on here, Provobis. Interestingly, the original translations allowed for these key language differences to be used in the first translations, before the ICEL insisted it should all be standardised. This, I think, was a big mistake.Part of the problem with the new English translation, as I see it, was that it solidified the use of the all-translated Mass, making it even more difficult to inject any Latin into the liturgy. Not only that but it reinforced the use of a single English translation throughout Anglosphere where many words and phrases don’t have quite the same meanings in the different countries. I think many of us agree that US English and UK English, for example, have notable differences. (It certainly was painfully true for me.) I think the bishops (and priests) have also tried to point that out to the Vatican. I guess my point is that we’re not really working with true vernaculars but translations into languages of some large groups. Hope that makes sense.
Agreed. In fact some of my favourite motets by Byrd and Tallis are in Latin. And I do think the Church could do a lot worse than have 4 Sundays a year when every parish has to chant the Missa De Angelis and end mass with the Salve Regina at their main Sunday mass!Hi, LL.
“Ubi Caritas et Amor” was sung at the Royal Wedding, witnessed throughout the whole world.
youtube.com/watch?v=cAUuLclU5w8
If the Anglicans have found a place for some Latin, certainly the Church can.
“Free” has a few meanings and connotations. Terms like “pro bono,” “habeas corpus,” “affadavit,” “status quo,” “nolo contendere,” “persona non grata,” “ex officio,” etc have legal uses and meanings which are clear to the judge and the lawyers.
like I said, the few that remain are terms of art: shorthand for specific meanings that a latin speaker of the first century would have no idea about. one usually speaks of a writ of mandate rather than mandamus, or no contest instead of nolo contendere. even the shorthand is shortened… “a habeas writ”, a “writ of cert.”
In a nutshell, what’s the address?!
Like they didn’t have Roman law in the first century? Let’s see now. Senate…Check. Cabinet…Check. Three branches of government…check. Two parties…check.
I don’t know what “habeas corpus” meant in the first century apart from its literal translation – the wikipedia article says the legal phrase originated in the 14th century. I’m positive that the 1st century meaning is completely different than the modern judicial concept, defined and limited by statutes and cases.Like they didn’t have Roman law in the first century?
I like all except #5 - I am under the impression that we are supposed to have a period of profound silence (ie: no sound whatsoever) after the people have received Holy Communion. If they want to sing during the Communion procession, go for it, but I would like them to stop singing as soon as the last person receives, or at a suitable stopping place before then.Right now I am Parochial Vicar in my parish. Probably in a year I will be a pastor and able to make some significant liturgical choices . I would like to offer an OF liturgy that uses legitimate options that are not often used. I am interested if you would be would desire to attending this type of iturgy, and why/why not
What do you think?
- No hymns: instead we chant the entrace antiphon and communion antiphon. Silence during the offertory.
- Ad Orientem for Liturgy of the Eucharist. Liturgy of the Word facing the people, of course
- Use of communion rail (if available) to receive kneeling, on the tongue. Otherwise kneeler for those who wish to use it when receiving
- Chanted Latin Ordinaries (Gloria, Creed, Sanctus, Agnus Dei), other prayers in vernacular
- No communion hymn, just chant communion antiphon+ but post-communion reflection sung by choir or cantor
- Lots of silence (offertory, communion) rather than filling those times with hymns
- Oh and a really awesome homiily 10-15 minutes with lots of energy and hopefully inspiring
You have a point there. It should be “exeunt,” as Shakespeare used in his plays.
either my english prayers are second class,* vis a vis* latin, or they’re not. and if God favors latin over my native language, I’m in the wrong faith.
Father, let me clear up some things.