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LongingSoul
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Poignant analogy, alphawoman. It’s spot on.
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alphawoman
Guest
Thanks longing soul.
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alphawoman
Guest
I’ll also add to Allegra’s good point the following:
What is this baseless canard being bandied about that says women don’t enjoy or value sex, or become frustrated by abstinence? Good heavens! The Catechism acknowledges that the procreative and unitive aspects of sex apply to both spouses equally, as does the call to marital chastity. Husbands don’t have a monopoly on reaping the benefits of sex under proper use of the sexual faculties, or necessarily carry a heavier cross of having robust sexual appetites go unfulfilled. In my perfect physical world, I’d rather have been having sex once or twice a day rather than abstaining. Lest you wonder whether I’m a man, check my screen name. But the state of one’s soul, and the state of the spouse’s soul, often require sacrificing a lesser (physical= Pleasure, bonding, endocrine response) good for a greater (spiritual= temperance, chastity, self-sacrifice, responsible parenthood) good if marital chastity isn’t being practised b one of the spouses.
Also, WHOSE unilateral decision resulted in the climate of hurt and betrayal resulting from porn addiction? A wife faced with the prospect of either soul-devaluing sex on an emotional and spiritual level, or undesired abstinence, is caught between a rock and a hard place as a REACTION to an exogenous decision made without her consent or knowledge. Don’t think that a hot, frequent sex life or attractive wife are the prophylactic antidote for a man’s temptation to sexual impurity. Psychiatrists who specialize in treating porn addiction universally acknowledge that the addiction is a maladaptive coping response to a perceived stressor that is outside the sexual context.
The wife signed up for a husband who loves and respects her, presumably with a mutually satisfying sex life that mirrors the total respect and self-giving of both parties. Instead, she’s left to fester, sexually frustrated and hurt, while her husband abdicates his covenantal responsibility to her and the family, and makes a mockery of the institution they are joined under.
Yeah, some choice she has. She really has his you-know-whats in her purse.
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Trident_H
Guest
I guess I’ve said all that I think I should in this thread. Actually I said more than I should. But I did learn a lot. Simple things and some things that were deeper. I learned things that probably should have been obvious. But they weren’t. Not to me. I mean I guess what I want to say is that I feel bad for the way I used to see things. And I feel bad for some of the things I said in this thread. And I feel that even though I’ve learned these things I can’t really be much use here anymore.
And I mean this thread now makes me feel really bad. Probably because it reminds me of what I should have done differently. I don’t know. Maybe because in seeing things through the eyes of other people I realize how self-absorbed I still am. To not have seen this stuff even as early as two days ago. I mean that’s something I’ve been thinking about. And I guess it also makes me feel bad because some of us aren’t talking anymore, but are just getting a bit angry or hurt or something. And I think part of that is my fault too. I mean I always say too much. Or the wrong thing. So I think I’m just going to leave this thread to the rest of you. I can’t help here anyways. I don’t really belong since I’m not going to get married again anyway. I mean I can’t even put this new information that I have to any use.
But mostly I’m just really sad about this. I’m sad for those involved. I’m sad for the missed opportunities. I’m sad about the miscommunication. I’m sad because I’m not even consistent with what I’m trying to say from one minute to the next. I just wish I could give you all a hug and make everyone feel better. I don’t know. That’s just how it is.
:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:
Peace guys. Take care of yourselves.
-Trident
And I mean this thread now makes me feel really bad. Probably because it reminds me of what I should have done differently. I don’t know. Maybe because in seeing things through the eyes of other people I realize how self-absorbed I still am. To not have seen this stuff even as early as two days ago. I mean that’s something I’ve been thinking about. And I guess it also makes me feel bad because some of us aren’t talking anymore, but are just getting a bit angry or hurt or something. And I think part of that is my fault too. I mean I always say too much. Or the wrong thing. So I think I’m just going to leave this thread to the rest of you. I can’t help here anyways. I don’t really belong since I’m not going to get married again anyway. I mean I can’t even put this new information that I have to any use.
But mostly I’m just really sad about this. I’m sad for those involved. I’m sad for the missed opportunities. I’m sad about the miscommunication. I’m sad because I’m not even consistent with what I’m trying to say from one minute to the next. I just wish I could give you all a hug and make everyone feel better. I don’t know. That’s just how it is.
:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:
Peace guys. Take care of yourselves.
-Trident
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alphawoman
Guest
Trident, I’m not saying this in a threatening or judgmental way, but I hope you’ll use your newfound perspective to get help from medical professionals and a trusted priest to bring you out of your difficulties. We ALL have moments of clarity in our lives where we see past decisions that have been wrong. Use your discomfort with your past decisions to make a real change! The keys are getting good medical help, frequent receipt of the sacraments, and a robust prayer life.
Remember: there is literally NOTHING that can’t be overcome or forgiven with God’s assistance. The daily rosary is a powerful armour against sin. You can overcome porn. I’m so glad you posted and hope you’ll keep us in the loop on your progress.
Remember: there is literally NOTHING that can’t be overcome or forgiven with God’s assistance. The daily rosary is a powerful armour against sin. You can overcome porn. I’m so glad you posted and hope you’ll keep us in the loop on your progress.
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Burt_Macklin
Guest
If she were contrite I think I would just forgive her without any retribution. I really don’t need another person in my life that I have to parent, and besides that I’m really lazy and would probably forget about the punishment before carrying it out.
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Burt_Macklin
Guest
So while I’ve learned in this thread it is entirely up to the injured spouse to decide how much they’re hurt I’ve also learned the only acceptable range for a catholic is from extremely hurt to unbearably hurt.Thats messed up, Burt.So are your ideas that Pensmama87 was talking about “grounding,” and “serving a sentence.” I can only think it comes from not having a real understanding of how beautiful Catholic marriage is supposed to be. So completely different from porn.
No, withholding intimacy from your spouse is just cutting your nose to spite your face. If you want to heal from an affair you can’t hold on to the pain and kick your spouse out the bedroom. I mean, it’s completely and totally understandable. But at the same time, looking at it from a dispassionate point of view, I can also see that it is also counter productive.
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Xantippe
Guest
Right. The porn use itself was also a unilateral choice.
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Xantippe
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Best wishes!
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Xantippe
Guest
Nah, nobody has been dictating how hurt a betrayed spouse ought to feel, just saying that if they do feel very hurt, it’s not for the guilty spouse to tell them how hurt they get to feel or for the guilty spouse to dictate terms.
Women have to feel safe and comfortable about marital sex before it can be a good thing. Without safety and trust, marital sex is a BAD thing.
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Eliza10
Guest
Thanks for answering that Xantippe! You definitely get it.
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Lormar
Guest
No, I wouldn’t, and I couldn’t stomach being married to a man like that. Sorry to be blunt. What he’s doing is the cowardly way out of actual adultery and it’s an insult to you.
I’m not sure counseling is the answer, but maybe fasting and some kind of rude awakening will help him to grow up.
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NM505StKate
Guest
Personal opinion for me is if my partner watched adult films I have no problems with it. Going to use some personal experiences here but from the friends that I have who have spouses watching adult films is something they do together and enjoy. I do say it isn’t for everyone but if both parties know about it there doesn’t seem to be any harm.
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Sugabee43
Guest
I obviously don’t know where you are in your faith journey, but if you are a practicing Catholic who wishes to remain faithful to Church teaching, watching adult films, even if done together, is destructive to the ideal of Catholic marriage and the Sacrament of Marriage as defined not only by the Church, but Jesus Himself. It’s sacred- holy and a form of worship. We unite ourselves not only to each other as a couple, but to God and His covenant with us as a couple. To introduce other people, even via video, is to break those vows that you promise as a couple to love, honor, and cherish each other and only each other for the rest of your lives.
There may not be harm that can be seen; but there is definite harm to the soul and psyche.
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LongingSoul
Guest
Right. And from the Catechism of the Catholic Church…
2354 Pornography consists in removing real or simulated sexual acts from the intimacy of the partners, in order to display them deliberately to third parties. It offends against chastity because it perverts the conjugal act, the intimate giving of spouses to each other. It does grave injury to the dignity of its participants (actors, vendors, the public), since each one becomes an object of base pleasure and illicit profit for others. It immerses all who are involved in the illusion of a fantasy world. It is a grave offense. Civil authorities should prevent the production and distribution of pornographic materials.
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Xantippe
Guest
I was just talking to a relative and a relevant story came up involving my relative’s employee.
Short version:
The employee and her husband were in danger of losing their house around the time their last child was born. The husband set her up to do online stripping videos so they could save their house. They didn’t. They eventually got a divorce. (Husband is unemployable and never lasts long anywhere.) The videos are still floating around and the employee periodically has to deal with people she knows asking if it’s her. She can’t, at this point, get the videos taken down.
So, anybody who watches those videos at this point or circulates them is cooperating in humiliating and degrading a woman that is embarrassed by them and wants to live a normal life.
There are probably a million stories out there like that, especially since the bulk of women doing this stuff are pretty young and a lot of them will eventually think better of it. But it will be too late.
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Sugabee43
Guest
Correct. And the number of these women/girls who are trafficked and are being forced into this are enormous. The porn industry is NOT, NOT, NOT a “victimless” business.
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jmjZelie
Guest
I have been following this thread and the spinoff thread. My very first question to this forum was on this topic. I don’t recall getting many replies, perhaps because my question was more vague. The thing that I keep noticing is that it seems there are some posters here (but many more people “out there”) who do not understand female sexuality, and the amount of trust that a chaste woman must have in her husband to be capable of being so vulnerable. The physical reality of female bodies reveal this truth. She surrenders to her spouse and allows him to enter her very body. Why this beautiful truth of the necessary trust and vulnerability for such an intimate act is so easily dismissed or overlooked is beyond my ability to comprehend. To engage in sexual relations when the trust isn’t there is incredibly damaging. If a husband and wife are cooperating and working to heal and overcome a betrayal,their choice to engage in marital relations can be a healing one. Making assertions that the husband will have more reason to go elsewhere if she is not ready to resume relations, well, that is blaming the victim.
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Sugabee43
Guest
Thank you so much for expressing this. I, for one, appreciate your sensitivity. God bless you!
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Xantippe
Guest
Right.
I suspect that part of the reason that people don’t understand “the amount of trust that a chaste woman must have in her husband to be capable of being so vulnerable” is precisely because of the pornification of mainstream sexuality. Not that people who don’t get it are necessarily heavy porn-users themselves, but that porn does shape mainstream sexuality in ways that effects even people that aren’t heavy consumers.
Also, come to think of it, from what I hear even from secular sources, porn creates a sort of science fiction version of female sexuality that doesn’t really exist in real life, so it sets up inexperienced males for a lot of disappointment and problems (and even deceives some experienced men who ought to know better).
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