Would you maintain sexual intimacy with a spouse addicted to porn?

[jmjZelie]

Right.

I suspect that part of the reason that people don’t understand “the amount of trust that a chaste woman must have in her husband to be capable of being so vulnerable” is precisely because of the pornification of mainstream sexuality. Not that people who don’t get it are necessarily heavy porn-users themselves, but that porn does shape mainstream sexuality in ways that effects even people that aren’t heavy consumers.

Also, come to think of it, from what I hear even from secular sources, porn creates a sort of science fiction version of female sexuality that doesn’t really exist in real life, so it sets up inexperienced males for a lot of disappointment and problems (and even deceives some experienced men who ought to know better).

This is unfortunately so true. I didn’t even understand female sexuality at first, and I am a woman. For YEARS after I got married, my husband and I both thought that something was very wrong with me. All of my responses and inclinations and feelings were just all wrong, according to what our culture says. I began to think that I was broken and was terrified that if I didn’t figure out what was wrong with me, that my husband would leave me or cheat on me and I would deserve it. Then we both discovered Catholicism, and we also began reading about female sexuality. It was like the world was finally turned right side up. We realized that there was nothing wrong with me at all! What was wrong was what we had been conditioned to believe about sex and about men and women. The lies began in our homes, from the lips of our parents, were continued in our church and in our extended circle of family and friends. Who needs the lies of the TV messages when people who are supposed to love you enough to tell you the truth are feeding you lies to ease their own conscience?! Once we understood the truth about marriage, sexuality and complementarity, we never looked back. People in our family think that our lives must be so bad since we have to abide by the hard teachings of the Catholic Church. What they cannot or will not understand is that the teachings are freedom. There is freedom in knowing how to properly use a powerful faculty such as sexuality. Freedom to love and to protect and to create together. Porn strips us of our humanity and debases us, making us nothing more than intelligent animals, totally obedient to our sense appetites and urges. Our culture has sold its birthright for a mess of pottage.

 

[Sugabee43]

This is unfortunately so true. I didn’t even understand female sexuality at first, and I am a woman. For YEARS after I got married, my husband and I both thought that something was very wrong with me. All of my responses and inclinations and feelings were just all wrong, according to what our culture says. I began to think that I was broken and was terrified that if I didn’t figure out what was wrong with me, that my husband would leave me or cheat on me and I would deserve it. Then we both discovered Catholicism, and we also began reading about female sexuality. It was like the world was finally turned right side up. We realized that there was nothing wrong with me at all! What was wrong was what we had been conditioned to believe about sex and about men and women. The lies began in our homes, from the lips of our parents, were continued in our church and in our extended circle of family and friends. Who needs the lies of the TV messages when people who are supposed to love you enough to tell you the truth are feeding you lies to ease their own conscience?! Once we understood the truth about marriage, sexuality and complementarity, we never looked back. People in our family think that our lives must be so bad since we have to abide by the hard teachings of the Catholic Church. What they cannot or will not understand is that the teachings are freedom. There is freedom in knowing how to properly use a powerful faculty such as sexuality. Freedom to love and to protect and to create together. Porn strips us of our humanity and debases us, making us nothing more than intelligent animals, totally obedient to our sense appetites and urges. Our culture has sold its birthright for a mess of pottage.

This is so beautiful!! Thank you!!

 

[alphawoman]

This is unfortunately so true. I didn’t even understand female sexuality at first, and I am a woman. For YEARS after I got married, my husband and I both thought that something was very wrong with me. All of my responses and inclinations and feelings were just all wrong, according to what our culture says. I began to think that I was broken and was terrified that if I didn’t figure out what was wrong with me, that my husband would leave me or cheat on me and I would deserve it. Then we both discovered Catholicism, and we also began reading about female sexuality. It was like the world was finally turned right side up. We realized that there was nothing wrong with me at all! What was wrong was what we had been conditioned to believe about sex and about men and women. The lies began in our homes, from the lips of our parents, were continued in our church and in our extended circle of family and friends. Who needs the lies of the TV messages when people who are supposed to love you enough to tell you the truth are feeding you lies to ease their own conscience?! Once we understood the truth about marriage, sexuality and complementarity, we never looked back. People in our family think that our lives must be so bad since we have to abide by the hard teachings of the Catholic Church. What they cannot or will not understand is that the teachings are freedom. There is freedom in knowing how to properly use a powerful faculty such as sexuality. Freedom to love and to protect and to create together. Porn strips us of our humanity and debases us, making us nothing more than intelligent animals, totally obedient to our sense appetites and urges. Our culture has sold its birthright for a mess of pottage.

What an articulate post! Thank you for sharing! I’m so glad you and your DH found your home in the Church.

 

[alphawoman]

I have been following this thread and the spinoff thread. My very first question to this forum was on this topic. I don’t recall getting many replies, perhaps because my question was more vague. The thing that I keep noticing is that it seems there are some posters here (but many more people “out there”) who do not understand female sexuality, and the amount of trust that a chaste woman must have in her husband to be capable of being so vulnerable. The physical reality of female bodies reveal this truth. She surrenders to her spouse and allows him to enter her very body. Why this beautiful truth of the necessary trust and vulnerability for such an intimate act is so easily dismissed or overlooked is beyond my ability to comprehend. To engage in sexual relations when the trust isn’t there is incredibly damaging. If a husband and wife are cooperating and working to heal and overcome a betrayal,their choice to engage in marital relations can be a healing one. Making assertions that the husband will have more reason to go elsewhere if she is not ready to resume relations, well, that is blaming the victim.

Again, what a perceptive and nuanced description of Catholic sexuality. Bravo!

 

[whm]

With respect to the original post. I don’t think there is a one size fits all answer. It depends on how strong the addiction is, it depends on how the other spouse reacts to the knowledge of the addiction, and it depends on the couples own history with respect to sexual morality.

That being said. If it has been going on for some time, I think it is a good idea to wait for a period of time before resuming relations. It can take 120 days or more for many of effects on a porn addict’s brain to subside/lesson. Although it is biblical, traditional etc. for people to marry to avoid temptation, and avoiding temptation is traditionally valid reason to request the “marriage debt”. It may be counter productive to use marital relations to “satisfy” the cravings of a porn addict. This is different than avoiding temptation, it can be indulging in the temptation and inadvertently result in reinforcing the perverted cravings.

It is important that healthy relations eventually start again, it may not be easy though. If it is a struggle due to the hurt one spouse is feeling, try to get some help, as a couple. Putting off relations indefinitely is probably not a good solution.

 

[whm]

Right. The porn use itself was also a unilateral choice.

It is not always unilateral. It is always wrong though.

 

[Allegra]

If she were contrite I think I would just forgive her without any retribution. I really don’t need another person in my life that I have to parent, and besides that I’m really lazy and would probably forget about the punishment before carrying it out.

Well in that case, and in the spirit of being equitable, why don’t we say that when the man can offer the woman the exact date his is going to permanently stop desiring and thinking about the images of objectified women, then she can issue him the exact date that his infidelity will stop hurting her. Does that sound fair?

 

[Xantippe]

Well in that case, and in the spirit of being equitable, why don’t we say that when the man can offer the woman the exact date his is going to permanently stop desiring and thinking about the images of objectified women, then she can issue him the exact date that his infidelity will stop hurting her. Does that sound fair?

Sounds fair to me.

 

[Allegra]

This is unfortunately so true. I didn’t even understand female sexuality at first, and I am a woman. For YEARS after I got married, my husband and I both thought that something was very wrong with me. All of my responses and inclinations and feelings were just all wrong, according to what our culture says. I began to think that I was broken and was terrified that if I didn’t figure out what was wrong with me, that my husband would leave me or cheat on me and I would deserve it. Then we both discovered Catholicism, and we also began reading about female sexuality. It was like the world was finally turned right side up. We realized that there was nothing wrong with me at all! What was wrong was what we had been conditioned to believe about sex and about men and women. The lies began in our homes, from the lips of our parents, were continued in our church and in our extended circle of family and friends. Who needs the lies of the TV messages when people who are supposed to love you enough to tell you the truth are feeding you lies to ease their own conscience?! Once we understood the truth about marriage, sexuality and complementarity, we never looked back. People in our family think that our lives must be so bad since we have to abide by the hard teachings of the Catholic Church. What they cannot or will not understand is that the teachings are freedom. There is freedom in knowing how to properly use a powerful faculty such as sexuality. Freedom to love and to protect and to create together. Porn strips us of our humanity and debases us, making us nothing more than intelligent animals, totally obedient to our sense appetites and urges. Our culture has sold its birthright for a mess of pottage.

 

[pwlj_christ87]

honestly, he has to just finally say that he is fed up and done with it,

you can say your in a “battle” but if thats what you are thinking mentally then your only allowing yourself to not fully commit, i ts tough but it takes alot to say no , the worst part is that he has you as a spouse i find it somewhat unacceptable to be quit frank with you, i struggled with the sin for a long time so who am I to talk but I am finally fed up and said enoughs enough, if a theif can change his ways, so can someone addicted to porn, i dont see a thief saying, im going to quit but with a battle, no, a thief says once and for all i will never steal again ,because its that grave the matter, and its about understanding the matter and applying the fact that its grave to it, and applying why you hate doing it and getting rid of and erasing everything that would make you want to do it

 

[Allegra]

honestly, he has to just finally say that he is fed up and done with it,

you can say your in a “battle” but if thats what you are thinking mentally then your only allowing yourself to not fully commit, i ts tough but it takes alot to say no , the worst part is that he has you as a spouse i find it somewhat unacceptable to be quit frank with you, i struggled with the sin for a long time so who am I to talk but I am finally fed up and said enoughs enough, if a theif can change his ways, so can someone addicted to porn, i dont see a thief saying, im going to quit but with a battle, no, a thief says once and for all i will never steal again ,because its that grave the matter, and its about understanding the matter and applying the fact that its grave to it, and applying why you hate doing it and getting rid of and erasing everything that would make you want to do it

The “battle” is legitimate when someone is really addicted, because recovering from an addiction is much more than simply giving up a vice. The person has to rewire his thinking in a lot of ways. He has to learn to discern when those addict thought processes and defensive and deceptive behaviors are creeping back into his consciousness and his relationships. For most addicts, getting clean is the easier part of overcoming the addiction.

 

[pwlj_christ87]

i dont deny that its difficult to beat, and that its a battle, sure, however, sometimes it takes someone to get to a real low point to just know that hes going to win with the battle and give it up,

what im trying to say is that if in your mind you keep thinking you have this struggle, youll think its somewhat ok when it happens or you may fall into it more easy whereas if you like have a serious thinking about it you can let go of it completley, were not supposed to abuse the confessional , everytime you confess you should know and think that you wont do it again, this is from personal experience, and of course we need Jesus

i just find it bizarre for someone to be addicted to porn, espiecally if you have a wife, i mean im not this person but for me i can brush off anything quite quick on this matter and when i repent i want a million miles from it

 

[Allegra]

i just find it bizarre for someone to be addicted to porn, espiecally if you have a wife, i mean im not this person but for me i can brush off anything quite quick on this matter and when i repent i want a million miles from it

It actually surprising, if you think about it, but most of the things people become addicted to are repulsive to others. I don’t understand why anyone would be addicted to cigarettes, meth, heroin, fast food, etc. I can sort of understand liking alcohol, but not drunkenness. But that’s how it is, I guess. I don’t know why people think that having a wife has any baring on a porn addiction. What goes on in the sick fantasies in the porn world is nothing like what a sane person would want done to their wife.

 

[pwlj_christ87]

i know im not condemning anyone or trying to start a quarrel, all i mean is that my perosnal experience and i may be a bit open is that when i do commit a sin of lust i like feel repulsed because i want to run to the living waters of truth and humility, maybe his pride is causing this problem, when a man is proud he wants women, money the like so,

 

[pensmama87]

i know im not condemning anyone or trying to start a quarrel, all i mean is that my perosnal experience and i may be a bit open is that when i do commit a sin of lust i like feel repulsed because i want to run to the living waters of truth and humility, maybe his pride is causing this problem, when a man is proud he wants women, money the like so,

I would say pride has a great deal to do with addiction of any kind for many people. It’s easier, at least when you are still a functioning addict, to rely on the substance to cope instead of asking for help.

Different substances or behaviors have their appeals to different people for different reasons. But the underlying reason for the addictions don’t seem to vary that much. And sadly, for many people who attempt sobriety or to get clean, they become susceptible to other addictions. Or people have several different addictions at the same time. That’s why true recovery is so important to attempt even though it is really hard.

 

[TraderTif]

I do, and my husband does. (We married each other, knowing that we each have different types, and different amounts, of struggles with porn, etc.)

I think it’s an individual decision that each couple has to make. For me, it makes a huge difference depending on the spouse’s belief and action. I know that my husband knows that it is wrong. I know that he’s trying desperately to overcome this problem. I see the steps he takes - the counseling, the accountability, etc., etc. My reaction would probably be very different if he tried to justify his porn.

(The fact that his particular struggle is with same-sex porn, probably also plays a big role. It doesn’t feel like he’s trying to “replace” me. I don’t feel a sense of “competition”. Obviously.)

The struggle is real. It is hard. And I hate it. We both hate it. But…we keep working on it.

 

[TK421]

I suppose this would to some extent relate to how much it viscerally hurts the offended spouse. My hypothesis is that a well-bred, well-to-do Catholic woman is probably going to be wounded by it much deeper than a woman that has a history herself, since the later is more desensitized both by the pervasive surrounding culture and her own experiences. The former is how you ought to feel (properly: it is objectively beneficial to be grievously wounded by adultery, both because of the recognition of the evil itself, and as a medicinal means to repairing the rift: the hurt of the offended party is an instrument which may produce sorrow in the offender. Or: the suffering of the wife also exists for the benefit of the sinner. She becomes a sacrificial lamb, or a Christ/Marian figure. This is the faculty of human emotion serving in a positive manner towards the salvation of others (along with the sanctification of the self). The suffering takes on the kind of “missionary” role that is described in Romans, when contending with situations of hardship that were not merited. This is a contrast from a conscience “burned with a hot iron”. If there is no longer an innate repulsion to sin, there is no longer a motivation to flee from it.

My original idea, that it is wiser for the wife to continue conjugal relations, I think was influenced by the notion that to do otherwise would greatly risk a complete rupture. The fault in that thinking is the rupture already exists anyway. Although a suspension of conjugal relationship might indeed cause a separation, you’re forcing the issue to a conclusion. The husband might abandon ship or he might undergo the necessary spiritual mortification. If conjugal relations persist, it may lead to a perpetual dysfunction in the marriage, where both Baal and Christ are active in the marriage for year after year.

 

[Burt_Macklin]

Well in that case, and in the spirit of being equitable, why don’t we say that when the man can offer the woman the exact date his is going to permanently stop desiring and thinking about the images of objectified women, then she can issue him the exact date that his infidelity will stop hurting her. Does that sound fair?

I agree but I feel you’re moving the goalposts. I was under the impression we were talking about withholding intimacy until some undefined time in the future not only until the errant spouse is repentant.

 

[Burt_Macklin]

I suppose this would to some extent relate to how much it viscerally hurts the offended spouse. My hypothesis is that a well-bred, well-to-do Catholic woman is probably going to be wounded by it much deeper than a woman that has a history herself, since the later is more desensitized both by the pervasive surrounding culture and her own experiences. The former is how you ought to feel (properly: it is objectively beneficial to be grievously wounded by adultery, both because of the recognition of the evil itself, and as a medicinal means to repairing the rift: the hurt of the offended party is an instrument which may produce sorrow in the offender. Or: the suffering of the wife also exists for the benefit of the sinner. She becomes a sacrificial lamb, or a Christ/Marian figure. This is the faculty of human emotion serving in a positive manner towards the salvation of others (along with the sanctification of the self). The suffering takes on the kind of “missionary” role that is described in Romans, when contending with situations of hardship that were not merited. This is a contrast from a conscience “burned with a hot iron”. If there is no longer an innate repulsion to sin, there is no longer a motivation to flee from it.

For me it’s just a matter of realizing I’m not such hot stuff myself. If my waste were to come out smelling like roses then I do think I would be much more hurt by a naughty spouse. I’m also kind of glad that my wife is a convert and not a well-bred catholic woman as I’m not certain I want her dolling out medicinal suffering.

 

[Sugabee43]

For me it’s just a matter of realizing I’m not such hot stuff myself. If my waste were to come out smelling like roses then I do think I would be much more hurt by a naughty spouse. I’m also kind of glad that my wife is a convert and not a well-bred catholic woman as I’m not certain I want her dolling out medicinal suffering.

Well, two points: 1) My waste doesn’t smell like roses, but my husband’s continued infidelity is perceived by me (and the Church) as much more than being “naughty”. It’s adultery, pure and simple. And, even though I am definitely a sinner, yes; I am hurt viscerally, as so aptly put.
2) I’m a convert to the Catholic faith, so being a convert doesn’t exclude a wife feeling betrayal. The ‘medicinal suffering’ is mutual; not exclusive only to the husband, and it is not deliberate. It flows from a natural place in a woman’s heart- most women require trust and respect in addition to love and desire in order to give themselves fully in conjugal love. When a husband is engaged in porn addiction, the wife doesn’t trust OR respect her husband- nor does she feel like he respects her. Those are the points I feel your post is missing.