Wow..... I can only hope this isn’t true

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HomeschoolDad said:
Before I could even get behind women as deaconesses, I would have to see something very, very persuasive from both a historical and theological point of view.
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If they’re unordained, no problem. If the term “deaconess” could be used without conflating it with the male ordained ministry of deacon, no problem with that either.

My difficulty would be in whether women can be admitted to any holy orders whatsoever.
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I don’t want to divert this further . . . so I"ll suggest searching for “deaconess site:byzcath.org” and you’ll find a lot by people who have actual background on it.

In short, while there is [at least?] one that uses the general structure of an ordination, and [at least?] one that lays hands as is done in major orders, these institutions are not Holy Orders (although there are a few on the fringe that claim they are). Also, another “at least one” is entry into the Holy Place to receive the Eucharist along with the subdeacons and major orders (but then, so did the emperor . . .).

[also, moved to liturgy and sacraments]
 
1ke said:
You have not answered my question. Is it your position that ordaining married men is “heterodox”?
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It’s not a question of the ordination of married men being “heterodox”. Rather, the question should be along the lines of authority. Can/should the Pope change what has been the constant practice of the Latin Tradition in ordaining only celibate men to the priesthood? Yes, celibacy is a discipline and can be changed but should it be changed?

Our Ukrainian Greek Catholic parish always had celibate men until our present pastor arrived. He’s a married priest - very traditional, a good confessor, easy to get along with. However, in the Eastern Catholic Churches married as well as celibate men can be ordained. This has not part of the Latin Tradition for at least a millennium.
 
ontheway1 said:
Overall, papal infallibility is extended to ANYTHING the pope says.
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Vatican I (1869-70) defined the exact conditions under which the pope is infallible. If all of those conditions are not met, then the charism of papal infallibility doesn’t come into play.
 
I think this is a key point, that is, the distinction between a discipline, which can be changed by the Pope, and a doctrine, which cannot. Another key point is that leaks are not necessarily true. I would advise Catholics to wait and see before casting the first stone.
 
I’m much more worried about other Catholics who want to play pope (on both the progressive and reactionary sides) than I am about the Pope.
 
Margaret_Ann said:
It’s not a question of the ordination of married men being “heterodox”.
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It’s the OP’s premise, not mine.
Margaret_Ann said:
Rather, the question should be along the lines of authority.
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Which the Pope has.
Margaret_Ann said:
Can/should the Pope change what has been the constant practice of the Latin Tradition in ordaining only celibate men to the priesthood?
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Yes, he can.

Should he? That’s a matter of opinion, and certainly people can disagree with the decision (if one is forthcoming).

But the OP started this thread asserting that to do so is heterodox. Which is nonsense.
 
This isn’t the end of priestly celibacy, but it is probably the beginning of the end. Those who think that opponents of celibacy are going to stop at this are greatly mistaken. This practice will probably spread within the next couple of years, and then advocates will move on to their next goal, which will probably be allowing ordained priests to marry. Bishops will complain that they are losing priests because they want to leave the priesthood to marry (which I believe is the number one reason priests wish to abandon the priesthood) and will argue that allowing priests to marry will allow them to retain them. Then there will be a new target after that. Change by creeping incrementalism - it’s a tried and true method. There’s undoubtedly more to come on this topic in the future.
 
Crusader13 said:
Many of their articles have been proven true and much of what they and other news sources, such as Church militant, have reported on have come to be proven factual.
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A stopped clock is right twice a day. 🕚
 
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When I was in college, the chaplain we had for my first three years was a priest with 2 degrees, one in psychology and one in theology. He usually gave a 5 minute homily but everyone loved him.

In my senior year, there was a new priest. As he was moving into the chaplain’s office I asked him "What happened to Father ______? He replied that Fr. ______ left the priesthood to get married. Well, you could have put a golf ball in my mouth I was so shocked.

I asked the new chaplain what was his style and he said "Orthodox in content and evangelical in style. 🤔 Hmm… Okay…

WOW - Did he give homilies! He’d go over the Gospel verse by verse. His sermons usually ran at least `15-30 minutes but you didn’t care because he was so good. He died some years ago of cancer, so please pray for the soul of Fr. H.
 
I don’t think that LSN is biased against PF. They’ve also published articles supporting him.
 
C.Ray said:
And if some priests can be married without causing the Sistine ceiling to fall, why shouldn’t all priests be allowed to marry?
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NO. Once a man is ordained celibate, he cannot marry. This is the constant Tradition of both East and West. What the Eastern Catholic Churches allow is for a man who is already married to become a priest. If a man is ordained celibate, he must remain celibate.
 
It should be noted that this is an SSPX article. The vast majority of us on here don’t follow the teachings or opinions of the SSPX. Nor do we regard them as an “orthodox” group.
 
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I still believe that we must trust our bishops and priests.

I wouldn’t be forced to accept things I know are against Church doctrine (even if a bishop told me to) - but the number of bishops who dissent from Church doctrine is pretty miniscule - outside Germany they are almost non-existent.
 
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