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annad347
Guest
Didn’t call you a liar…if you think I did for that I apologize… and thank you, I accept your apology.
Emeraldlady
New member
Pope John Paul II in the context of the Synod discussing the subject in the early 90’s acknowledged that One can understand that in the first phase of Christianity’s spread and development a large number of priests were married men, chosen and ordained in the wake of Jewish tradition. We know that in the Letters to Timothy (1 Tim 3:2-3) and to Titus (1:6), one of the qualities required of the men chosen as presbyters is that they be good fathers of families, married only once (that is, faithful to their wives). This was a phase in the Church’s process of being organized, and, one could say, of testing which discipline of the states of life best corresponds to the ideal and the “counsels” taught by the Lord.
And that celibacy “does not belong to the essence of priesthood,” but at that juncture, the Synod Bishops decided that celibacy was still an ideal worth retaining. (Gen. Audience 17th July, 1993)
In 1997 then Card. Ratzinger stated in the book “Salt of the Earth” against the claim that celibacy was a doctrinal requirement “One ought not to declare that any custom of the church’s life, no matter how deeply anchored and well founded, is wholly absolute. To be sure, the church will have to ask herself the question again and again; she has now done so in two synods.”
It will continue to be tested against the times in cases where the proposed solutions have failed as is the case with countries in the pan-Amazon region who still suffer the problem after decades of trying to trouble shoot.
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Randolph
Guest
It’s important to be fair. Can you show evidence of their incorrect/false reporting of news? If yes, how are they different from other news outlets; ie mistakes, retractions, etc…
I recall their incorrect reporting of the Martin Lutter stamp some years back. Have there been more? More than other Catholic news services such as CNS, NCRegister, NCReporter, America, etc…?
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po18guy
Well-known member
How do you ‘prove’ the subjective? Here is my opinion: Virtually everything they report strikes me as hysterical and alarmist. Is this the Church which Christ left us? Edgy, nervous, ill at ease, even suspicious? Where is the peace which surpasses all understanding?
If you like them, good!
If you like them, good!
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Randolph
Guest
Both Popes JP2 and Benedict XVI supported priestly celibacy. It is a discipline of the Church that has substantial support from the Gospels and Tradition according to Benedict in his “Salt of the Earth interview” with Peter Kreeft.
Pope John Paul in his Apostolic Exhortation Familiaris Consortio reminded the Church that, “in spite of having renounced physical fecundity, the celibate person becomes spiritually fruitful, the father and mother of many, cooperating in the realization of the family according to God’s plan.”
Pope Benedict also echoed:
“The ability to renounce marriage in order to place oneself totally at the Lord’s disposal is a criterion for the priestly ministry. As for the concrete form of celibacy in the ancient Church, it should also be pointed out that married men could only receive the sacrament of Holy Orders if they had committed themselves to sexual abstinence, that is to say, to a Josephite marriage. Such a situation seems to have been quite normal during the first centuries.”
Why just restrict to just the Amazon? What about the jungles in Southeast Asia, the far reaches in Australia, the jungles and deserts in Africa, the inner cities in throughout the world, ice covered territories, the mountains in Appalachia, the Andes, etc…? What about countries that are short of priests such as Sweden, Holland, Denmark, Norway, the UK, Iceland, Malaysia, Thailand, Indonesia, etc…?
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Randolph
Guest
I just want to be fair. If they report incorrect facts, then they should be held accountable. But if they offer their opinions, then take it as their opinions.
Not sure of how it works in Eastern traditions, but I can see how it could happen in some Protestant circles where some women feel a specific calling to being a minister’s wife, as their particular vocation.
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A nine-fold increase isn’t “leaps and bounds”?
Wherever you find traditionalists, you find vocations. They (or should I say “we”? — I’m a traditionalist myself) must be, by the grace of God, doing something right.
This was a priest who went over to the ACROD (American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Diocese). Aside from this, I don’t know anything about their practices in this regard.
I don’t know if he was re-ordained or not. Isn’t the usual Orthodox procedure to have some kind of “vesting” ceremony (there may be another name for it), possibly re-chrismation as well, and all of this is considered to “heal what is broken”, “supply what is lacking”, or what have you?
Point well made. I can tell you, from personal experience, that people in southern Appalachia — aside from those born and raised Catholic (and those are very few) — absolutely, positively do not grasp the idea of celibacy. They just don’t. It’s totally alien to their culture. It’s about as close to pure mission territory as you will get anywhere in the United States (even Utah).
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Leferdion
Guest
St. Peter was married. The evidence is not only from the hints of the bible but also from church tradition…
1 Corinthians 9:5 " Don’t we have the right to take a believing wife along with us, as do the other apostles and the Lord’s brothers and Cephas?"
You see it’s not correct to say the bible gives no hints about Peter’s wife.
1 Corinthians 9:5 " Don’t we have the right to take a believing wife along with us, as do the other apostles and the Lord’s brothers and Cephas?"
You see it’s not correct to say the bible gives no hints about Peter’s wife.
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babochka
Guest
Traditionally in Slavic churches, daughters of priests married sons of priests, who themselves became priests. This was not necessarily a good situation and helped to create a clerical class. It has changed in recent generations.Elf01:
Not sure of how it works in Eastern traditions, but I can see how it could happen in some Protestant circles where some women feel a specific calling to being a minister’s wife, as their particular vocation.
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FJRQZ
Guest
I’ve never even heard of that website, but I’m going to guess it is not true,.
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IanM
Guest
“Have we not power to carry about a woman, a sister, as well as the rest of the apostles, and the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas?”
1 Corinthians 9:5 Douay Rheims 1899
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Leferdion
Guest
How does this translation cancel out what I said? Irrespective of what the translation is, 1 Cor 9:5; hints that Peter had a wife (woman). It is still not correct to say the bible gives no hints about Peter having a wife. If the passages about him having a mother in law (which is a hint) and the one above did not exist, then you could be right but these exist and are hints. Unless we have different interpretations of what hints are.
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Elf01
Guest
I’m thinking more of the children needing a mother being the reason the priest has permission to marry. I don’t think it would be like that in a protestant church.
Yes, but I think something of that still would apply, and that it could well play a part in why women agree to marry a widowed priest with young children. As far as I know, the priest’s wife holds a particular role I’m Eastern churches, and the same is true in many Protestant communities. Whatever reason the priest has to marry, the woman who agrees to it would still be his wife, and have that specific role to fulfill.
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C.Ray
Guest
Ok, but it’s perfectly alright for some priests to have married and then be ordained, to have the one spouse thing dispensed with in some circumstances.
I think this is almost like a kind of double standard that confuses a lot of people, myself included.
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Gorgias
Guest
No. There is no instance (to the best of my knowledge) in which a widowed Catholic priest was permitted to marry again. If you have such an example, could you cite it? (Perhaps you already have, and I missed it here, and you could cite the post number?)
Umm… don’t all single parents who are looking for a new spouse look for people who are potential parents? And who says it’s an either/or thing and not a both/and thing?
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