Wow there are a lot of Mormon (LDS) threads and members here

[dianaiad]

except for that great apostasy stuff…

True, we do claim that the priesthood was lost, and ‘many great and precious truths’ were lost…but not all of them by any means. You realize, don’t you, that the Protestants all believe the same thing or else they wouldn’t be protesting…

 

[dianaiad]

I find it fascinating the number of people that actually believe, and state as fact, that they know the thoughts and motivations of people that are, to them, total strangers. They can see into their hearts, just like God. It must be a special gift. Or something.

You are quite right, MelanieAnne. that’s why it is important to judge the fruits; what people actually do.

If they do things that put them solidly in the ‘anti’ camp, then they are anti. If they don’t, they aren’t. Seems simple enough to me.

 

[dianaiad]

T, there are some Mormons who post regularly to this forum. I believe that most of them are farming for converts, but there could be a few that aren’t and I don’t pretend I can see into their hearts (although some of them appear to believe they themselves have that ability!)

Through much experience with this area of the forum, the nearly inescapable conclusion is that Mormons take any disagreement as a personal attack

Only when it actually is, Melanie.

 

[zaffiroborant]

True, we do claim that the priesthood was lost, and ‘many great and precious truths’ were lost…but not all of them by any means. You realize, don’t you, that the Protestants all believe the same thing or else they wouldn’t be protesting…

Aren’t you doing the same thing you frequently gripe about, asserting what others believe?
From my experience many Protestants don’t hold a belief in a priesthood that in anyway resembles either the Catholic or the LDS view. So it’s not lost it’s unnecessary. As to things being lost again most of my experience shows not so much things lost as things mucked up with extra stuff that just needs to be removed.

 

[majick275]

True, we do claim that the priesthood was lost, and ‘many great and precious truths’ were lost…but not all of them by any means. You realize, don’t you, that the Protestants all believe the same thing or else they wouldn’t be protesting…

it goes further than that. you call our creeds ABOMINATION! you claim that by baptizing infants we will go to hell.

but i have issues with the (few) protestants who feel compelled to come to Catholic churches, websites, etc. and plant anti-catholic literature and proselytize. few come anywhere close to the mormons though

 

[Tmaque]

it goes further than that. you call our creeds ABOMINATION! you claim that by baptizing infants we will go to hell.

but i have issues with the (few) protestants who feel compelled to come to Catholic churches, websites, etc. and plant anti-catholic literature and proselytize. few come anywhere close to the mormons though

Don’t worry Majick. I’m sure in the next version of the Book of Mormon they’ll remove those “abomination” words.

LDS doctrine is like the weather in Utah. Don’t like it? Don’t worry it’ll change soon.

 

[MelanieAnne]

LDS doctrine is like the weather in Utah. Don’t like it? Don’t worry it’ll change soon.

You got that right. We’ve had other threads here with Mormons arguing with ex-Mormons about doctrine that the ex-Mormons were taught in seminary or in their other church meetings. If you go back a decade or two, the doctrine is remarkably different & yet current day members were telling those ex-Mormons that certain things were never doctrine. Not that it changed, but NEVER doctrine!

This sort of thing doesn’t contribute positively to any sort of meaningful dialog. If it was once doctrine, but isn’t anymore, fine, say so & explain the change. But it is intellectually dishonest to declare that something isn’t doctrine now and never was when the doctrine is an historical fact.

Not all the arguments on the forum concerning Mormonism are related to such things, but it definitely plays a part. For some reason, most members will not admit to the changes and perhaps in some cases they don’t even know about them.

 

[majick275]

You got that right. We’ve had other threads here with Mormons arguing with ex-Mormons about doctrine that the ex-Mormons were taught in seminary or in their other church meetings. If you go back a decade or two, the doctrine is remarkably different & yet current day members were telling those ex-Mormons that certain things were never doctrine. Not that it changed, but NEVER doctrine!

This sort of thing doesn’t contribute positively to any sort of meaningful dialog. If it was once doctrine, but isn’t anymore, fine, say so & explain the change. But it is intellectually dishonest to declare that something isn’t doctrine now and never was when the doctrine is an historical fact.

Not all the arguments on the forum concerning Mormonism are related to such things, but it definitely plays a part. For some reason, most members will not admit to the changes and perhaps in some cases they don’t even know about them.

it is SO Orwell’s 1984 ministry of truth. no wonder so much money went to buy things that were put in the vault never to see the light of day again

 

[dianaiad]

Aren’t you doing the same thing you frequently gripe about, asserting what others believe?

Nope.

this is obvious from the evidence; if they didn’t think that something was wrong, they wouldn’t be protesting, nor would they have left the Catholic tradition.

Now if I were going to tell them what they thought was wrong, you might have a point. I’m not doing that, though.

Of course, if you know of a Baptist, for instance, who would allow a Catholic priest to baptize one of their children…

From my experience many Protestants don’t hold a belief in a priesthood that in anyway resembles either the Catholic or the LDS view.

There ya go.They have a different belief about the priesthood than the Catholics do, ergo…they think that the Catholics lost/changed something. Perhaps not the same thing WE think you lost, and they have some very different opinions between themselves about what it is you lost, but that you lost/changed something?

Well, that’s pretty self evident by the fact that they aren’t Catholics.

So it’s not lost it’s unnecessary

Who said it’s unnecessary? Where does it say anywhere that it’s not necessary? (whatever ‘it’ is…)

. As to things being lost again most of my experience shows not so much things lost as things mucked up with extra stuff that just needs to be removed.

Ah. so your brand of protesting is just that it is change, not loss…though I don’t quite see how change and add ons isn’t also ‘loss,’ the way simple truths may be buried under layers of…extra stuff…

 

[zaffiroborant]

You said:

True, we do claim that the priesthood was lost, and ‘many great and precious truths’ were lost…but not all of them by any means. You realize, don’t you, that the Protestants all believe the same thing or else they wouldn’t be protesting…

Most Protestants I’ve met don’t believe the priesthood was lost because they don’t believe it was established. Protestant don’t believe “the same thing” as LDS.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Don’t worry Majick. I’m sure in the next version of the Book of Mormon they’ll remove those “abomination” words.

LDS doctrine is like the weather in Utah. Don’t like it? Don’t worry it’ll change soon.

It’s snowing.

 

[zaffiroborant]

LDS doctrine is like the weather in Utah. Don’t like it? Don’t worry it’ll change soon.

Do people in all parts of the country say that, I thought it was just around here

 

[dianaiad]

You said:

Most Protestants I’ve met don’t believe the priesthood was lost because they don’t believe it was established. Protestant don’t believe “the same thing” as LDS.

They believe that ‘many plain and precious truths’ were lost. They don’t believe that the same ones were lost that WE do, but then I didn’t claim that they did.

 

[reff]

I am one of them… an exmormon. I mean no harm in you all being here I was just wondering. Please go ahead and post. I’m not one to go and say you can’t be on a non-catholic religions forum. It is when others (not just LDS) cause problems thats what I don’t like.

Me 2

 

[zaffiroborant]

They believe that ‘many plain and precious truths’ were lost. They don’t believe that the same ones were lost that WE do, but then I didn’t claim that they did.

But it is what you implied when you said Protestants believed the same thing.

Never heard a Protestant say" ‘many plain and precious truths’ were lost" that’s an LDS phrase and carries alot of baggage.

 

[LAMBOFGODGIRLY]

Lamb of God Girly,
I only look at this website once in a while lately, but I noticed your conversation here and felt it was important to add a personal insight. First, thanks for being patient and really kind-hearted in your approach here. You are a true Christian in every sense, and I appreciate “meeting” someone like you who asks sincere questions.

I assume we all believe that God knows the heart of every person, regardless of what church they belong to or where they live in the world. He loves everyone unconditionally, always. I assume we all acknowledge that this life is a learning process, happily so.

With those three basic premises, would it not be logical that a person moving in the direction of becoming more Christ-like (more loving and charitable, less argumentative and demanding, less angry and selfish, etc.) is moving in the direction that God wants them to move?

When the LDS speak of the fullness of truth in our church, it is because of our belief in on-going revelation that living prophets united with apostles receive from God. They guide us in moving in the direction of becoming more Christ-like, but that is not to say that anyone has “arrived”–“all come short of the glory of God” (far short). We all need grace, and we all also need patience with each other as we all move along encountering different aspects of truth in our lives that we can incorporate to help us become more Christ-like.

So I would say that many Catholics have much truth, and are moving in the same direction that I am moving, seeking to become more Christ-like. We LDS feel that the ordinances (like baptism by immersion for the remission of sins we have committed in life, and the gift of the Holy Spirit to be able to become sanctified) and covenants of the fullness of the gospel strengthen our focus and our innate ability to help in that process of becoming more Christ-like. We feel that the Holy Spirit really does guide our everyday life–in how we treat others, in how to live providently, in what field of work to go into, what education to pursue, perhaps how to make the connection that gets us a job we will enjoy–real, daily guidance in things that are not trivial for us personally.

But as Catholics move in the direction of becoming more Christ-like, then obviously there would be more similarities between a certain Catholic and a certain LDS person because they are moving toward the same goal, though perhaps at different rates of change and with the possibility of “wandering off” because of discouragement, temptations, or what have you (for either religious person). Becoming Christ-like is Bible-centered, Bible-taught, and I don’t think it’s necessarily measurable by what church a person belongs to.

Having said all that, I would say that what attracts people to the LDS church is that when they attend the LDS services, they find people who really do connect with the Holy Spirit in receiving guidance as I mentioned, so they find people who are really joyful, really committed to living Christ-like lives as best they can, while still making mistakes along the way and feeling acceptance anyway. It that exclusive to the LDS? Probably not. But having read in this forum a lot of Catholic comments, I tend to question how many really have Christ-like intentions and Christ-like daily living–at least they don’t come across as very loving and forgiving. (Not to offend anyone.) But, Lamb of God Girly, and also Stephen if he sees this, the two of you are stand-out Christians, and I thank you for these qualities that are apparent here.

Thank you Parker! You’re also a very big stand out! Your are very kind all the time! :angel1:

 

[LAMBOFGODGIRLY]

True, we do claim that the priesthood was lost, and ‘many great and precious truths’ were lost…but not all of them by any means. You realize, don’t you, that the Protestants all believe the same thing or else they wouldn’t be protesting…

well, I think it differently. I think people choose to walk away from the truth because it goes against what they are used to or something they dont want to do (confession comes to mind as one thing that I always here from people who are not Catholic), just like when all the people were walking away from Christ when he was creating a miracle to feed everyone with only 5 loaves and 2 fish…even one of his apostles walked away…

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

I feel for Mormons. I obviously feel they are wrong about certain things, but I have sympathy for them nonetheless. This comes from my run ins with my Fundamentalist FIL and how he treated my wife and I’s faith.

I am not saying that what my fellow Catholics on this board have said has been wrong or right (I just don’t know the LDS faith well enough to determine) but those who stand up for their beliefs have my respect. In the end I am flattered when someone tries to share what they believe to be truth with me. I am more concerned about those who think they have the truth and don’t say a word to you about it.

God bless

 

[ParkerD]

Thank you Parker! You’re also a very big stand out! Your are very kind all the time! :angel1:

Lamb of God Girly,
Thank you for even putting up with my comments here, let alone remarking that I have been kind (which I try to be, but too often I mess up). It was one of the things that “made my night.” Have a wonderful day, and here’s wishing for continued success in your health project. It is a worthwhile thing you are doing.

 

[dianaiad]

But it is what you implied when you said Protestants believed the same thing.

Never heard a Protestant say" ‘many plain and precious truths’ were lost" that’s an LDS phrase and carries alot of baggage.

I seldom ‘imply’ anything. I come right out and say things…and yes, 'many plain and precious truths were lost" said by an LDS about LDS beliefs does 'carry a lot of baggage…"

but when said about someone else’s beliefs, it does not. Protestants believe that some things were lost, and some things were added…that’s why they were protesting.

They all wanted to reform the church, and get her back to the way it was ‘supposed’ to be. The Catholics reacted badly. Both sides did, depending upon who had the political power at the time; in that, Catholics and Protestants behaved pretty much the same way.