WWYD if your parish had liturgical dancers?

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Chris yer post made me laugh, this was my thought as well when I read that. (sorry to that poster) :o I do not get this whole liturgical dancers thing at all. But I sure hear a great deal about it on Catholic forums. I would seriously have to see this to make any kind of judgement. If it’s not allowed then we shouldn’t be doing it, but I’m not sure I could get a real clear cut answer on that one. It’s possible I missed a post 🙂
anamchara, did the image of the liturgical dancers twirling round the foot of the cross at Calvary raise a smile too? 😦

Maybe it’s time to get out that copy of The Passion and re-focus our minds on what the Mass truly is. 😦

Hey I know, for a real chuckle fest, how about we all throw on a bit of lycra and tulle and dance around in our living rooms while we watch the crucifixition scene? 😦

While you’re having that real good belly laugh perhaps you could find it in your heart to say a prayer for the men who really are struggling with the mortal sin of lust. Hope that doesn’t put too much of a damper on your good time - hell isn’t that funny. 😦

Seek happiness by all means but God does indeed call us to be serious sometimes. 😦 This subject is one of those times. 😦
 
anamchara, did the image of the liturgical dancers twirling round the foot of the cross at Calvary raise a smile too? 😦
While poetic license is nice and you’ve exercised it well here, the above scenario plays on emotion, not what is in reality…
While you’re having that real good belly laugh perhaps you could find it in your heart to say a prayer for the men who really are struggling with the mortal sin of lust. Hope that doesn’t put too much of a damper on your good time - hell isn’t that funny. 😦
i loathe this argument… shunning personal responsibility is my pet peeve. IF someone cannot handle lustful thoughts, THEY need to work on it, not the rest of the world. We end up pandering to the weakest in society in that model. or we end up with the women in burkas.
thats the non-thinking persons way out. i can’t handle something so everyone else suffers and is deprived.
if someone can’t handle it, they need therapy and then when healed, come watch the dancers and try smiling…

There is JOY in the mass. There is JOY in our redemption. THERE IS JOY in our being Catholic.

WHY DON’T SOOOO many Catholics understand this joy? Why is it dour pain and unworthiness in so many hearts when it is the sacrifice of Christ alone that makes us worthy to stand before God?
 
While poetic license is nice and you’ve exercised it well here, the above scenario plays on emotion, not what is in reality…

i loathe this argument… shunning personal responsibility is my pet peeve. IF someone cannot handle lustful thoughts, THEY need to work on it, not the rest of the world. We end up pandering to the weakest in society in that model. or we end up with the women in burkas.
thats the non-thinking persons way out. i can’t handle something so everyone else suffers and is deprived.
if someone can’t handle it, they need therapy and then when healed, come watch the dancers and try smiling…

There is JOY in the mass. There is JOY in our redemption. THERE IS JOY in our being Catholic.

WHY DON’T SOOOO many Catholics understand this joy? Why is it dour pain and unworthiness in so many hearts when it is the sacrifice of Christ alone that makes us worthy to stand before God?
There is JOY in everything I am sure…
But please… Dancing at Mass…
what next a Three Ring Circus???http://www.muralsforkids.com/images/3RingCircusWEB.jpg?
 
I’ve had to endure liturgical dancers three times in my service as a cathedral choir member. The last time was the final straw and that was back in the late 80s. I refused to sing at any more diocesan events in which they were to be a part.

The movies the Ten Commandments, Ben Hur, and Cleopatra were part and parcel of my childhood. The sight of young women in gauzy outfits did not fill me with lust but rather with nausea. The House of God being filled with young women carrying bowls of incense, running hither and yon, wafting incense all over the place reminded me more of Cecil B. deMille than of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. And then, there was the Mass in which they came in carrying Maypoles…Maypoles! I’m an anthropologist by training, do I need tell you what Maypoles signify?

Liturgical dancers have no part in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass in a western liturgy. None. It is not part of our heritage in any way. There were no pavanes or gaillards down the main aisle of any church or cathedral in Europe during the Middle Ages or Renaissance of which I am aware or any other style of dance in later periods.
 
I still think that, done appropriately and in somewhat more modest attire, I would actually enjoy liturgical dance.

dancing in worship can be quite beautiful.

the problem arises when people dress so scantily. jeans and t-shirts would be prefferable, and indeed, had that picture shown girls clad in jeans and t-shirts to worship, I would’ve had no real problem at all.

love,
Saoirse
 
While poetic license is nice and you’ve exercised it well here, the above scenario plays on emotion, not what is in reality…
Chrismyster:

I hope you said that and every thing else you said because you don’t quite understand what happens during the Divine Liturgy and in the Sacrifice of the Mass. That you don’t understand that when the priest says the words, “This is My Body… This is My Blood…,” that it’s not the priest, but Christ, and that the Catholics assembled in the church (and other congregations) are present in the Upper Room with Christ and the Apostles commememorating the Passover and Inaugurating the New Covenant.

Since they were commemorating the night the Israelites ate while wearing shoes and sitting upright while the Angel of the Lord killed all of the first-born of the Egyptians, do you think dancing would be appropriate in that, esp. since the Jews NEVER danced for Passover?

Since Jesus was talking about His Death for their salvation and ours, are you sure dancing is appropriate?

And then we are taken to the foot of the cross at Calvery, where Christ gave and gives himself up for us. Since God really does take us to the foot of the cross so that we can participate in Christ’s sacrifice on the Cross, are you really sure dancers in skimpy outfits are appropriate in the middle of this.

Or, could all of these posters, and many priests and bishops and the Pope, be right when they say that liturgical dancers DETRACT from the Divine Liturgy and the Sacrifice of the Hoy Mass.

You see, Liturgical Dancers are are a way of CONFORMING to the world around us and its values and morays. Christ and the Gospel call us to be TRANSFORMED BY THE RENEWAL OF OUR MINDS IN CHRIST JESUS.

The question is, who is influencing whom? Is the Church influencing this immoral society? or, Is our immoral society influencing the Church?

Your Brother in Christ, Michael
 
When all is said and done, it doesn’t matter if you like it or you don’t. What the girls are wearing isn’t really the point either. The fact of the matter is that IT IS NOT ALLOWED!! If you understood, REALLY UNDERSTOOD, what was going on during the Mass, you wouldn’t want to be dancing in the isles. You would want to make yourself ready to recieve the Holy Sacrifice, the body and the blood of our Lord. Anything distracting from the Sacrifice is unacceptable. He is our Lord and he is woarth defending.
 
[SIGN]AMEN[/SIGN]
When all is said and done, it doesn’t matter if you like it or you don’t. What the girls are wearing isn’t really the point either. The fact of the matter is that IT IS NOT ALLOWED!! If you understood, REALLY UNDERSTOOD, what was going on during the Mass, you wouldn’t want to be dancing in the isles. You would want to make yourself ready to recieve the Holy Sacrifice, the body and the blood of our Lord. Anything distracting from the Sacrifice is unacceptable. He is our Lord and he is woarth defending.
 
  1. Make sure that am not having an medical reaction
  2. Pinch myself to make sure I am not dreaming
  3. Wait to jude the performace until it was over
  4. Only approve if it is modest and respectfull for a church
  5. Be polite
  6. Leave and run to the Catholic mass as fast as I can
 
Or as a backup plan kneel down break out my rosary and pray for daylight.:rolleyes:
 
While poetic license is nice and you’ve exercised it well here, the above scenario plays on emotion, not what is in reality…i loathe this argument… shunning personal responsibility is my pet peeve.

There is JOY in the mass. There is JOY in our redemption. THERE IS JOY in our being Catholic.

WHY DON’T SOOOO many Catholics understand this joy? Why is it dour pain and unworthiness in so many hearts when it is the sacrifice of Christ alone that makes us worthy to stand before God?
Poetic license? How so? The reality is that each and every Mass is the re-presentation of the same sacrifice that Our Lord made at Calvary. Nothing is more real than this. Our whole world turns on this fact. Liturgical dancing in the Mass *is *dancing around the foot of the cross at Calvary. They are one and the same. Like Clark Kent and Superman.Is there anyone here who would seriously consider it appropriate to dance at such a time as this? Perhaps we could take our cue on how to behave from His Mother? Did Our Lady of Sorrows dance at Calvary? Chris do you believe that the Mass is the sacrifice of Calvary?

I stand by my statement that we are called to be serious at certain times. Not sure how this makes the leap to “dour pain”. :confused: Several weeks ago our just-turned-three son climbed into my lap and whispered “Mummy, you 'member Jesus died with nails in His hands?” He was looking up at me with very serious big brown eyes. I thought for a moment “Maybe this is too much for him to handle.” But did I slap him on the back and say “Hey smile son! C’mon c’mon get happy!”? No I did not. I let the moment play out naturally. I took his open palm in mine and looked back at him with my own serious big brown eyes and said “Yes, I remember.” We both looked down at his open hand, thinking in our own way of another who freely opended His hand for us. 30 seconds later The Wild One was back to his usual happy, carefree self and the serious moment had passed. There are indeed appropriate times to experience all the emotions God has blessed us with, both serious and joyful.

I actually like clowns. They’re funny. 🙂 But not at Mass. 😦 I take the moment of the Consecration quite seriously. We have been attending a Tridentine Mass and the minutes preceeding the Consecration are completely silent. Everyone is kneeling, heads bowed in silent prayer. Suddenly the silence is broken as the bells are rung. I lift my eyes. The Priest, facing the alter, kneels and raises up Our Lord present in the Host for adoration and worship. My heart skips a beat. My breath catches in my throat every time and I bow my head. I am the first to admit to feeling unworthy to receive The Eucharist. Do we all not pray “Lord I am not worthy to receive you, but only say the word and I shall be healed”? In the Latin the translation is “Lord I am not worthy that you should come under my roof, but only say the word and I shall be healed.” I am a fairly new Catholic (received into the Church Easter 2005) but I have never once said that statement and not meant it ferverently.

The moments after receiving Our Lord are definately filled with thankful joy. Mostly I just can’t stop thanking God for calling me home to His Church and allowing me to be united with Him in this most intimate way (and for not letting me get hit by a bus before I went to my first confession! :o)

I agree that we each need to take responsibilty for our own struggles against sin. But I also take seriously the tempting of others to sin via my actions, dress etc. Like it or loathe it is incumbent on us all to take great care not to lead others into sin. To do so is a *mortal *sin. This is not simply part of my argument; it is part of our religion. As a woman I make an effort to dress modestly. Men still sometimes stare and I totally agree with you that this is solely their responsibility to deal with. However we are then called to pray for them and not simply shrug our shoulders and say “Not my problem.” Do you not agree Chris?

As for going somewhere else to seek healing, I’m with the apostles when they asked Jesus “Where else would we go Lord?” Where better than Holy Mass to seek purity and holiness? Is it right that sinners should be excluded from the Mass? Isn’t that a bit like clearing a hospital of all those nasty, icky sick people so they don’t contaminate all the healthy folks? Should all sinners leave or just the ones struggling to maintain a pure heart? How long should the sinners stay away for? Maybe they could all just hang around outside? Perhaps there could be an annoucement at the beginning of each Mass.

“Warning! Warning! Attention all Faithful! This Mass will contain Liturgical Dancing. Those in danger of commiting sins against the Sixth and Fith Commandments please line up outside the confessionals where we have our Priests standing by. For your own safety please remain inside the cubicle until the conclusion of the performance.”

(Just a bit of Catholic humour for you Chris in case you thought I was becoming too painfully dour! 😛 )
 
As we are now up to post 126 would the defenders of Liturgical Dance like to step up to the plate and present their case? Anyone? So far we have only had “I personally don’t have a problem with it.” A bit lite-on? Feel free to quote Canon Law, the early Church Fathers, and the Catechism of The Catholic Church; perhaps wrapping up the argument with a doozy from your favourite Papal Bull. 😛
 
fixed that for you.

people on CA aren’t too good with the opinion thing.
Chris:

Please read my post to you - The Center of the Mass ought to be Christ who loves us and gave Himself for us when we didn’t deserve it. Liturgical Dance places the emphasis on ourselves and our feelings instead of Christ who loves us and gave Himself for us.

Instead of claiming that this is merely a matter of opinion, could you please cite where the Early Church or the Israelites used Liturgical Dance in the celebration of the either the Passover or the Divine Liturgy? Could you cite where the Israelites used Liturgical Dance in the once yearly Sacrifice on Yom Kippur?

Scripture and Tradition are both clear about what happens during the Divine Liturgy and the Sacrifice of the Mass. Those Posters who are saying that having liturgical dancers at Mass are the same same as having them dance at the foot of the cross at Calvery are correct. Are you prepared to say this really is appropriate and doesn’t detract from the sacrifice of the Mass?

Scripture and Tradition are both clear about this - We are to be Transformed by the Renewal of our minds in Christ Jesus, not Conformed to the fashions and fads of our age.

Why do you need to do something in the name of “Joy” which detracts from the Sacrifice of the Mass and while placing the emphasis on us instead on Christ? Esp., When there are plenty of ways to express “The Joy of the Lord” without resorting to things which place the emphasis on us instead of Christ, which are inappropriate and which detract from the Sacrifice of the Mass?!

Your Brother in Christ, Michael
 
As we are now up to post 126 would the defenders of Liturgical Dance like to step up to the plate and present their case? Anyone? So far we have only had “I personally don’t have a problem with it.” A bit lite-on? Feel free to quote Canon Law, the early Church Fathers, and the Catechism of The Catholic Church; perhaps wrapping up the argument with a doozy from your favourite Papal Bull. 😛
I think most of us get it, that it’s not allowed. Cardinal Arinze explains it well enough. It’s the point of view here in CAF that is more troublesome. If these arguments were correct, then liturgical dancing would not be allowed in any country, any culture, anywhere - and this is not the case. I have never seen or experienced liturgical dance. If it were allowed, based on the pictures shown, I would not be offended.
 
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