Yes, in hell, but why forever

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oliver109 said:
Ok sure, in reality the salvation of Satan is impossible as is it also impossible for a sinner to go back in time and not sin, to unsin so to speak, that is impossible what is done is done. What I see as possible is for the soul and body to continue in a different region after loss of consciousness without any separation.
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Again, what you propose is hypothetical speculation. Too much of that is not good for the soul. We live in the human condition. The kingdom of God is on offer now.
 
Is it not nice to have a bit of extra hope? I think if what I proposed eventually becomes church teaching the world would be a much saner place, imagine having such a vital extra chance to be saved, imagine not having to be terrified of dying, the idea is sweet, it is sane and lifechanging. If you are not ready when you die there is nothing wrong in giving you another chance, free will would not be violated after all.
 
Of course we have to be free from sin to enter Heaven, I was arguing that just because someone looks like they have died does not mean they are dead, they could be making new preparations in a different area.
 
‘Anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God’

I agree that somebody who looks dead may not be, and we can’t determine who ends up in hell… somebody, for example, may have a conversion of heart at the end of life. I think the different area idea is delving into ideas beyond any kind of rational thinking or faith based teaching. Your priest ‘could’ be saved if he had a true conversion and rejected sin… but to just sin and intend to confess it later is a total waste of time as there’s no sign of a conversion of heart. We have to reject sin. We are given the tools to do this. We must use them.
 
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Lets just say that the priest probably went to Confession with the hope that he would stop sinning, he certainly did not go to Confession while planning to “meet Laura afterwards at 7pm” if you know what I mean. Perhaps he had sex with the plan to confess it afterwards and be done with the sin but as we know he never had the chance to “be done with the sin”
 
oliver109 said:
Perhaps he had sex with the plan to confess it afterwards and be done with the sin but as we know he never had the chance to “be done with the sin”
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That would be the sin of presumption. It doesn’t matter whether their rendezvous was premeditated or sporadic.
 
Last time I checked, your priest walked straight out of confession and into the arms of Laura with a view to having sex. Priests, like the rest of us, are consecrated to God. We belong to him, and not to ourselves. A priest who ‘knows’ better, who should have been receiving the Sacraments to strengthen him. Forming a habit like this sounds like he’s not made any attempt to reject sin. He’s simply using the sacrament of confession as a get out of jail card… wishful thinking without any kind of conversion of heart.
 
Maybe the priest came home, he had a door knock from Laura and he simply ended up doing the wrong thing, so many priests as we know from history have behaved in a shocking manner, it does not mean that they are unable to receive forgiveness, it is not unknown for sinners to walk out of Confession and commit sins soon after.
 
1 Corinthians 10:13 tells us that there is a way of escape… is he even looking for the way of escape?
 
Not really… he could be just confessing with his lips. Paying lip service to God.
 
Why would he bother going if he is just paying lip service? he is keen to stop sinning, to make amendments, he just finds it easy to commit sin and it is hard to stop him!
 
You have to try to avoid sin… God helps us, we become stronger each time we make the attempt. We have tools to help us. We have the way of escape that I just mentioned, we have prayer, we have the Sacraments, we have acts of consecration etc. etc.
 
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Hi Vico,
Vico said:
There is culpability for sin when it is done through free will choice , but only when there is knowledge that is a sin, but also there must be sufficient reflection , enough for it to be a personal choice. Although, as St. Thomas Aquinas wrote, vincible ignorance can also be a sin.
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If you want to revisit this, you may recall that the counterargument is that a person who chooses ignorance does so with lack of awareness. There is a lack of experience, such that their conscience is not formed fully, or there is a blindness, denial, many different possibilities.

People do not choose harm on themselves unless there is some kind of blindness or lack of awareness involved. This is especially evident in the person who is suicidal.
Vico said:
Baltimore Catechism
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I know you love the BC, but it is always the most recent catechism that reflects the Spirit in the Church at any moment in history.
 
oliver109 said:
Maybe the priest came home, he had a door knock from Laura and he simply ended up doing the wrong thing, so many priests as we know from history have behaved in a shocking manner, it does not mean that they are unable to receive forgiveness, it is not unknown for sinners to walk out of Confession and commit sins soon after.
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It’s not a matter of whether or not he’s able to receive forgiveness. It’s about the fact that he’s literally mortally sinning at the moment of his death.
 
Yes he is sinning at the moment of his death but he has not died yet, so I do not see the problem.
 
oliver109 said:
Is it not nice to have a bit of extra hope? I think if what I proposed eventually becomes church teaching the world would be a much saner place, imagine having such a vital extra chance to be saved, imagine not having to be terrified of dying, the idea is sweet, it is sane and lifechanging. If you are not ready when you die there is nothing wrong in giving you another chance, free will would not be violated after all.
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It won’t become Church teaching because too many people might commit presumption by relying on it.
oliver109 said:
Why would he bother going if he is just paying lip service? he is keen to stop sinning, to make amendments, he just finds it easy to commit sin and it is hard to stop him!
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A person I know is in an adulterous relationship and goes to Confession and receives without any plans to amend the situation. It does happen.
 
oliver109 said:
Yes he is sinning at the moment of his death but he has not died yet, so I do not see the problem.
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Except in your scenario he’s going to get a plane dropped on him while in the act. It doesn’t matter he went there earlier, what matters is he’s in mortal sin now and dying now and he is rejecting God now .
 
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He is dying but not dead, his body and soul are still together, they are not seperate and so he is still in “a mode where he can change” he has not yet been locked into his sin
 
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