Yes, in hell, but why forever

[Vico]

What I still cannot understand is why a soul would go straight to Hell should it die after committing a mortal sin, that soul might not be hardened as such, it might just be an ordinary person who basically just committed a mortal sin, the thought makes me sick and makes me not want to live in this world much longer where I often find even the greatest moments of life quite boring.

• 1 John 1:8 If we say, “We are without sin,” we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we acknowledge our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from every wrongdoing.
• Luke 17:3 Be on your guard! If your brother sins, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him.
• Luke 3: 7 He said to the crowds who came out to be baptized by him, “You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath? 8 Produce good fruits as evidence of your repentance; and do not begin to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father,’ for I tell you, God can raise up children to Abraham from these stones. 9 Even now the ax lies at the root of the trees. Therefore every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.”
• Romans 12: 19 Beloved, do not look for revenge but leave room for the wrath; for it is written, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.” 20 Rather, “if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by so doing you will heap burning coals upon his head.”

 

[oliver109]

Does this mean that we are not to forgive people who openly admit that they are not repentant? like the criminal who says they love their crime and would do it again if they were released from prison.

 

[Gorgias]

Yes. Relationship requires, when applicable, contrition and repentance on the part of the sinner. This does not change God’s forgiveness.

It does change the effect of the forgiveness, though. God’s forgiveness does not affect reconciliation (which is what is necessary in order for mortal sin to be wiped away). So, if your claim is merely that God’s there, waiting for reconciliation to take place, then I agree. If, however, your claim is that God effects reconciliation merely by being willing to forgive, then you’ve strayed from Catholic doctrine.

Objectively speaking, torture and murder is seriously sinful, correct? Yet, He did not wait for their repentance.

Were they reconciled with God, however? Mull on that one for a bit…

 

[OneSheep]

Does this mean that we are not to forgive people who openly admit that they are not repentant? like the criminal who says they love their crime and would do it again if they were released from prison.

You have found one of the bases for my saying that the Gospel presents two different images of God. If we look at this:

Luke 17:3 Be on your guard! If your brother sins, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him.

and compare it to this:

Mark 11:25 And when you stand praying, if you hold anything against anyone, forgive them, so that your Father in heaven may forgive you your sins.

Luke’s Jesus tells people to forgive if the other repents, but Mark’s gospel does not carry that condition. What does your heart tell you about the path to take? In the context of “be perfect, as your heavenly father is perfect”, which looks like perfection?

 

[OneSheep]

If, however, your claim is that God effects reconciliation merely by being willing to forgive, then you’ve strayed from Catholic doctrine.

It is not my claim. Even on Earth, the person who holds grudges or is enslaved by desire is living in a version of hell.

Were they reconciled with God, however? Mull on that one for a bit…

No, they were not reconciled. But I what I see from humanity is that when we truly understand what is going on, we choose God. What makes sense to me is that purgatory would be a time of coming to truly understand.

 

[Kei]

Regardless, you should definitely keep him in prison!
What we should do is pray for the person. The fact he is unrepentant means he is denying the grace of God to work in him.

 

[Kei]

You see, if Christ truly is who He said He is, then He came from Heaven and really does know. Precisely how we do.

 

[Vico]

Does this mean that we are not to forgive people who openly admit that they are not repentant? like the criminal who says they love their crime and would do it again if they were released from prison.

We may seek justice which is not the same as revenge. There should be no hatred.

"Do not look for revenge but leave room for the wrath; for it is written, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.” – Romans 12: 19

Catechism

1836 Justice consists in the firm and constant will to give God and neighbor their due.

2266 The efforts of the state to curb the spread of behavior harmful to people’s rights and to the basic rules of civil society correspond to the requirement of safeguarding the common good. Legitimate public authority has the right and duty to inflict punishment proportionate to the gravity of the offense. Punishment has the primary aim of redressing the disorder introduced by the offense. When it is willingly accepted by the guilty party, it assumes the value of expiation. Punishment then, in addition to defending public order and protecting people’s safety, has a medicinal purpose: as far as possible, it must contribute to the correction of the guilty party.67

 

[Gorgias]

What makes sense to me is that purgatory would be a time of coming to truly understand.

We don’t have the ability to ratiocinate in purgatory. After all, we’re only souls, not ensouled bodies. There’s no “coming to truly understand” (sic) in purgatory.

 

[IWantGod]

We don’t have the ability to ratiocinate in purgatory. After all, we’re only souls, not ensouled bodies. There’s no “coming to truly understand” (sic) in purgatory.

Would purgatory be suffering until acceptance? What is purgatory if not a preparation for unity?

 

[Gorgias]

Would purgatory be suffering until acceptance?

That sounds a bit like Buddhist doctrine, doesn’t it? “Suffer in the world until you attain nirvana state”? No – purgation isn’t about us “accepting” God or punishment or anything.

What is purgatory if not a preparation for unity?

But it’s not like a self-help class in which we go and learn and walk away self-actualized!

 

[goout]

Yes.
Justice is commonly opposed to love. It is not. Justice serves love, and is transformed by love, or “taken up” in love. Redeemed by love. As is everything else.

Opposing justice against love is a false dichotomy.

 

[GLam1761]

Eternal Judgment is a core teaching of not only the Catholic
Church, but the Mainline Protestant Churches also.see
Heb.6:2

 

[GLam1761]

I agree, in hell/purgatory, we will then have FULL knowledge
of the Truth, too late for those whose fate is sealed. But
that is why prayers for the Dead is so Important, it gives
US a true perspective on things eternal! While we are alive,
we have HOPE, those in hell will have NONE.

 

[OneSheep]

I agree, in hell/purgatory, we will then have FULL knowledge
of the Truth, too late for those whose fate is sealed. But
that is why prayers for the Dead is so Important, it gives
US a true perspective on things eternal! While we are alive,
we have HOPE, those in hell will have NONE.

If that statement agrees with your image of God, and this image helps motivate you to avoid sin/behave compassionately, then praise Him!

 

[American-Papist]

They are in hell forever also because their sin is an offense against an eternal God and deserves an eternal punishment

 

[Gorgias]

If that statement agrees with your image of God, and this image helps motivate you to avoid sin/behave compassionately, then praise Him!

Nah… more like “if it’s in accord with the teachings of the Church Jesus founded… then praise Him!”