Yes, in hell, but why forever

  • Thread starter Thread starter MaximilianK
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
I acknowledge that what the priest has done is very serious, scandalous even but what he has done has been very common throughout history, multiple sins have been committed. I could argue that he was fasting, praying, talking to others about his problems. He may have been making progress, say he was sleeping with her every week, now he has been sleeping with her on 3 occasions in the last 6 months, still sinning mortally but progressing! Obviously he was going to Confession and promising he would not sin again, he just gave into temptation afterwards and had sex, it was easy, he did it. Every priest who commits a mortal sin is basically a hypocrite in your view? This priest is sincere in that he is trying to stop his regular sins, in reality he is like so many of us and so I do not see him as unsaveable.
 
oliver109 said:
I could argue that he was fasting, praying, talking to others about his problems.
Click to expand...
You can change the circumstances all your want.
You made up the original scenario, it isn’t working out the way you would like. We understand your position there is untenable.

Feel free to make up a new story.
 
He was just an ordinary priest who happened to commit serious sins, like probably a good deal of priests have done, we get the idea that priests, nuns, bishops live lives that are virtually perfect when they have in many cases the same struggles with sin as everybody else. I would not make a new story as the one I have relates to so many people out there.
 
Last edited:
oliver109 said:
ordinary priest
Click to expand...
oliver109 said:
commit serious sins, like probably a good deal of priests have done
Click to expand...
“Ordinary priests” do not commit adulterous affairs with women in their congregation. That you would lump what he did in with the lot of “ordinary priests” is borderline, if not outright, insulting.
oliver109 said:
the one I have relates to so many people out there.
Click to expand...
I don’t know a single person who would be able to relate to this at all.
 
What about the various popes, countless clergy that have been involved in fornication and even more serious sins over the centuries(also I did say serious sins, not just adultery so I am talking about masturbation, looking at porn or feeling envy)? are you saying that they were not ordinary? I think my case relates to a lot of people as fornication is so common as are it’s related sins like viewing pornography and masturbation.
 
Last edited:
oliver109 said:
What about the various popes, countless clergy that have been involved in fornication and even more serious sins over the centuries(also I did say serious sins, not just adultery so I am talking about masturbation, looking at porn or feeling envy)? are you saying that they were not ordinary?
Click to expand...
Yeah. They weren’t ordinary. You can raise Pope Alexander VI, and I’d raise Popes St. Pius V, John Paul II, Gregory the Great, and many more. The clergy has had many un-ordinary men in its ranks, both as Saints and sinners.

Do you really want to start digging a bigger hole for your priest? You want to say he watches porn in the rectory and is green with envy and yet somehow sincerely repents of his sins?
oliver109 said:
I think my case relates to a lot of people as fornication is so common as are it’s related sins like viewing pornography and masturbation.
Click to expand...
How many of those affairs are with priests?
 
Last edited:
I think that popes have become a lot more pious in the last few centuries, why do you think that would be? This priest prays every day for forgiveness and help to stop his sins, he was making an effort which is more than one could say for someone like Ted Bundy who relished in his sins and loved it so much he never ever apologised for his sins. Now fornication is not very common in the church but I am sure that other mortal sins are much more common, simply because they are easier to commit, fornication still requires a woman to be interested in a priest or a priest to make advances towards a woman.
 
oliver109 said:
I think that popes have become a lot more pious in the last few centuries, why do you think that would be?
Click to expand...
I don’t know. Though I don’t know what you spend define as “last few centuries”.
oliver109 said:
This priest prays every day for forgiveness and help to stop his sins, he was making an effort which is more than one could say for someone like Ted Bundy who relished in his sins and loved it so much he never ever apologised for his sins.
Click to expand...
But the priest still chose to sin mortally.
oliver109 said:
fornication still requires a woman to be interested in a priest or a priest to make advances towards a woman.
Click to expand...
Fornication requires a man and a woman outside of marriage, not necessarily a priest. And unlike your average layman, a priest has made a vow of celibacy and is supposed to be a shepherd to his flock. To one whom much is given, much is expected.
 
By last few centuries I mean the last 2 or 3 centuries, we have had some exemplary popes in this period indeed one wonders how they have managed to live such upright lives when so many of the clergy have lived in persistent sin. Yes the priest has chosen to sin, so have nearly all of us, if God was to get everybody who committed a mortal sin to die instantly after sinning Heaven would be quite empty.
 
oliver109 said:
By last few centuries I mean the last 2 or 3 centuries, we have had some exemplary popes in this period indeed one wonders how they have managed to live such upright lives when so many of the clergy have lived in persistent sin.
Click to expand...
I had to consult Wikipedia on this one for a comprehensive list, but the first 35 Popes of the Church are canonized Saints in a time where the punishment for being Christian was death. A number of them are invoked in the Roman Canon (Eucharistic Prayer I). St. Pius V was around during the Reformation, and St. Gregory the Great was before that. There are Saints and sinners in every era of history.
oliver109 said:
Yes the priest has chosen to sin, so have nearly all of us, if God was to get everybody who committed a mortal sin to die instantly after sinning Heaven would be quite empty.
Click to expand...
The fact that there are people who have committed mortal sins at least once in their life are now in heaven while others are in Hell doesn’t really change anything. In the end, the difference between those two groups is that one took advantage of God’s grace and actually stopped their actions, and the other didn’t.
 
The other one did not stop their actions because they were not able to, death caught them in the act, where was their free will to be able to say no to death? why did God force death on the sinner?
 
oliver109 said:
The other one did not stop their actions because they were not able to, death caught them in the act, where was their free will to be able to say no to death?
Click to expand...
Their free will was deciding to have sex with each other. Why do they need free will to say no to death?
oliver109 said:
why did God force death on the sinner?
Click to expand...
God didn’t force it, He allowed it.
 
Death is something the priest did not ask for, he never gave permission for God to separate the soul from his body. It is in a sense force as it is beyond the control of the person.
 
Well we are taught that God values free will so much that he will never do anything to us without our consent.
 
I always hear about God valuing our liberty when reading on this forum and hearing homilies at church, is God separating a soul from it’s body valuing it’s liberty?
 
oliver109 said:
I always hear about God valuing our liberty when reading on this forum and hearing homilies at church, is God separating a soul from it’s body valuing it’s liberty?
Click to expand...
There’s valuing liberty, and then there’s never letting the consequences of our actions affect us. I can choose, for example, to buy ice cream. God, however, could make it so I do not get ice cream for a number of reasons (the shop forecloses, the ice cream falls on the floor, I forgot my wallet, etc.). Just because we choose it does not mean it must happen.
 
Last edited:
In the case of this priest maybe he did not want God to separate his soul from his body while in a state of sin, why would God not listen to the priests petitions? why does God have to separate the soul from the body of a sinful but imperfectly contrite person? Who does it benefit?
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top