YOGA...ooer!

[SyroMalankara]

Thanks for these, just watched them. They must have strong leg muscles. Maybe their going low then back up again is a kind of bow because in Catholicism we bow our heads at the beginning of the Glory Be and every time Jesus’ name is said and we’re also supposed to do this when Our Holy Mother’s name is mentioned too. Bowing happens a lot and kneeling of course. We also bow as we pass the altar when we cross from one side of the Church to the other.

You mean in Latin Rite Catholicism… this video is how Malankara Syriac Catholics worship (as well as Syriac or Malankara Orthodox).

 

[AnnieHall]

As numerous other posters have said, it’s so hard to say yoga is this or yoga is that, because “yoga” is used to mean a wide variety of different things - from 10 minutes of stretching alone in the morning, to an hour long class with the heat cranked up and instructors yelling at you for not doing a pose correctly or pushing yourself hard enough, to a spiritual and religious offering to the gods. So trying to say yoga is always good or always bad or anything dealing with absolutes seems a little tricky.

For me, I do classes called power yoga when I can, and then videos at home that are pretty similar to the classes for when I can’t make it in to class. I’ve never experienced any chanting in classes, there’s always music playing, and the closest to “empty your mind” I’ve heard is being told to “relax and forget about your to-do list, let this be time for you to focus on yourself for this hour.” It’s pretty heavily focused on connecting breath to movement - inhale and go up to this post, exhale and lift your leg up, hold here for a breath, then inhale and do something else. For me, the focus on breath and pushing through physically demanding exercise is pretty similar to swimming or running, and my mind tends to think the same way during all three - although there’s a few more “ahh don’t fall over!” thoughts during yoga than the other two.

Most of the poses are called by their English translations - cat, cow, warrior 1, 2, 3, downward dog, upward dog, cobra, mountain (my favorite ), tree, happy baby, forward fold, etc. The only name I can think of that isn’t translated into an animal or other English word is chaturanga, which is like a low plank/push up type pose.

So for me, it’s nothing that’s mysterious at all or spiritual, just good strength building and stretching that makes a good combination with the running I do (helps strengthen some muscles that help make running easier, as well as ones that aren’t touched by running, plus the flexibility and balance makes it less likely that I’ll hurt myself while running). It seems like the name is the part that might intimidate some because of associations with non-Christian things. I don’t see why the Church would speak out about something that’s morally neutral though, which is how I view a lot of yoga classes in the west, or at least the types of ones I’ve seen and have heard about from my friends who do different styles.

That’s my :twocents: anyway!

Edit: this post became so long winded and chatty!! My main point was supposed to be that there’s a huge variety in what is all known simply as “yoga”.

 

[AnnieHall]

And as far as people being emotionally connected and irrationally upset by people telling them they shouldn’t - I can’t say that I saw a lot of this on this thread, from my perspective, but I recognize I’m probably biased.

For me personally, I don’t enjoy most exercises. I force myself into running, because I know it’s good for me, and then try to reward myself by doing “fun” theme 5k races a couple times a year. I many people struggle in the same way I do - it’s much easier to remain motivated and keep up with a fitness routine if you can have some fun in doing it. So finding a workout routine that clicks with you can be pretty exciting. I like yoga because, like running, I can see the results as I improve. If I work hard, I can run a little further, or a little faster, and that is rewarding and encourages me to continue. With yoga, if I do a good job keeping up with it, sometimes the changes are subtle, but sometimes there are bigger breakthroughs - the first time nailing a tricky pose, or the first time I was able to touch the floor with my knees straight. It certainly can give you a rush and push you to continue on. I don’t necessarily think that’s a sign that Satan is involved in your workout, as much as it is a self esteem and confidence boost. And I certainly think any of this can happen in any sort of workout regimen, not just yoga or running.

 

[friardchips]

You mean in Latin Rite Catholicism… this video is how Malankara Syriac Catholics worship (as well as Syriac or Malankara Orthodox).

I did not explain myself well: what I meant was that the way the Malankara Syriac Catholics worship according to those videos - by going to the floor then standing - is the equivalent of Catholics bowing their heads (this goes for New or Old form).

 

[friardchips]

Hi. Saw two videos - one by Fr. Laird and another showing a woman doing Yoga. I listened attentively and gave the priest longer than the time I viewed the woman because as soon as she finished bringing the Lord into her workout she stuck her lycra-padded rump in the air ungainly as if being lifted by a crane. I was like: “Okay, next…!” I went on to this priest and what he said is interesting about how meditation came about, if he is correct, and although he states that Jesus is quoting lines of scripture instead of dialogue with Satan, this does actually contradict Pope Benedict who noted it was a battle of genius theologians. However, I wasn’t going to dismiss it quite yet until he started making fun of Deuteronomy then realised this wasn’t something I liked to listen to, as this was poking fun at holy Scripture, and the Holy spirit doesn’t inspire people to make fun of Himself, and the only person we know who does like to do that, is…so these guys are inspired by the wrong person, in my opinion. If one has a real pious love of the Church, of Rome, of Jesus and Scripture then they won’t make fun of God. Straight up. Glad I’ve stuck to my insights so far.

The other thing is that Jesus did not need to speak lines of Scripture instead of directly confronting Satan because this idea would suggest that Satan could overcome Him or that Jesus had reason to be afraid of Satan, which is simply not true. Of course, Jesus could confront Satan directly - this He did - and could have dismissed Satan just like that if He so wished, but instead, allowed Satan to tempt His humanity, and this way Jesus overcame Satan, as is written. I do not like that video one bit - it has the odour of heresy.

 

[friardchips]

As numerous other posters have said, it’s so hard to say yoga is this or yoga is that, because “yoga” is used to mean a wide variety of different things - from 10 minutes of stretching alone in the morning, to an hour long class with the heat cranked up and instructors yelling at you for not doing a pose correctly or pushing yourself hard enough, to a spiritual and religious offering to the gods. So trying to say yoga is always good or always bad or anything dealing with absolutes seems a little tricky.

For me, I do classes called power yoga when I can, and then videos at home that are pretty similar to the classes for when I can’t make it in to class. I’ve never experienced any chanting in classes, there’s always music playing, and the closest to “empty your mind” I’ve heard is being told to “relax and forget about your to-do list, let this be time for you to focus on yourself for this hour.” It’s pretty heavily focused on connecting breath to movement - inhale and go up to this post, exhale and lift your leg up, hold here for a breath, then inhale and do something else. For me, the focus on breath and pushing through physically demanding exercise is pretty similar to swimming or running, and my mind tends to think the same way during all three - although there’s a few more “ahh don’t fall over!” thoughts during yoga than the other two.

Most of the poses are called by their English translations - cat, cow, warrior 1, 2, 3, downward dog, upward dog, cobra, mountain (my favorite ), tree, happy baby, forward fold, etc. The only name I can think of that isn’t translated into an animal or other English word is chaturanga, which is like a low plank/push up type pose.

So for me, it’s nothing that’s mysterious at all or spiritual, just good strength building and stretching that makes a good combination with the running I do (helps strengthen some muscles that help make running easier, as well as ones that aren’t touched by running, plus the flexibility and balance makes it less likely that I’ll hurt myself while running). It seems like the name is the part that might intimidate some because of associations with non-Christian things. I don’t see why the Church would speak out about something that’s morally neutral though, which is how I view a lot of yoga classes in the west, or at least the types of ones I’ve seen and have heard about from my friends who do different styles.

That’s my :twocents: anyway!

Edit: this post became so long winded and chatty!! My main point was supposed to be that there’s a huge variety in what is all known simply as “yoga”.

Your chattiness is welcomed and appreciated! And your obvious positive outlook is a breath of fresh air. If I forgot my to-do-list this would mean forgetting where I put it!

No opinions here, or this thread as a whole, is aimed at individuals or their own personal experiences (just to remind). Many thanks for sharing your side of the debate!

Btw…if you think that is tough, you could try Zumba! If you do, a tip, take a drink with you for after!

 

[friardchips]

And as far as people being emotionally connected and irrationally upset by people telling them they shouldn’t - I can’t say that I saw a lot of this on this thread, from my perspective, but I recognize I’m probably biased.

For me personally, I don’t enjoy most exercises. I force myself into running, because I know it’s good for me, and then try to reward myself by doing “fun” theme 5k races a couple times a year. I many people struggle in the same way I do - it’s much easier to remain motivated and keep up with a fitness routine if you can have some fun in doing it. So finding a workout routine that clicks with you can be pretty exciting. I like yoga because, like running, I can see the results as I improve. If I work hard, I can run a little further, or a little faster, and that is rewarding and encourages me to continue. With yoga, if I do a good job keeping up with it, sometimes the changes are subtle, but sometimes there are bigger breakthroughs - the first time nailing a tricky pose, or the first time I was able to touch the floor with my knees straight. It certainly can give you a rush and push you to continue on. I don’t necessarily think that’s a sign that Satan is involved in your workout, as much as it is a self esteem and confidence boost. And I certainly think any of this can happen in any sort of workout regimen, not just yoga or running.

• Hi! Yes, this is the argument for, pretty much. There are going to be physical benefits and mental strengthening from doing exercises such as this. I don’t think this can be denied from people’s personal accounts. Not telling people what to do (to reiterate), it is a Catholic Answers debate, 'tis all.

 

[greydove]

I haven’t been able to take the time to read the whole thread, but I hope to read more later, so please forgive me if this is out of place, but I take yoga at the Y. My favorite teacher is Catholic. It’s very peaceful, and has been such a blessing. Doing yoga helps me feel stronger and more flexible and has helped my hip feel better.

 

[friardchips]

I haven’t been able to take the time to read the whole thread, but I hope to read more later, so please forgive me if this is out of place, but I take yoga at the Y. My favorite teacher is Catholic. It’s very peaceful, and has been such a blessing. Doing yoga helps me feel stronger and more flexible and has helped my hip feel better.

Hi. Not to worry, your thoughts and experiences are not out of place. Many thanks for participating!

 

[friardchips]

• Does intention not have to be educated?
• Who has the authority to teach Yoga?
• Did Christ teach Yoga, did He give us instructions?
• Did the Saints teach Yoga, for they must have known about Yoga if it is a widespread Eastern practice that has been going for longer than Christianity, did St. John of the Cross?
• These Yoga teachers, from where do they get their knowledge?
• How do the Yoga teachers know what is beyond the physical realm?
• If yoga is a form of connecting, before prayer, then doesn’t this still mean communication of sorts with or without the spirituality?
• If demons are tapped into via Yoga then why are they going to disregard Yoga as worship all of a sudden in the West, will they not still be attracted to what was attributed to them for thousands of years?
• And simultaneously, why do people ignore the dangers to do with the psychological trap that is reincarnation?
• What is wrong with exercise that doesn’t approach Yoga?
• No one can deny Yoga gives physical strength, at least in the short term, but is the Christian meant to seek worldly happiness before eternal happiness, or is it the narrow not the wide path we are taught to follow?
• What is wrong on the spirituality side of things with praying the meditation we have been taught or learnt as Christians?
• Are people really doing Yoga because they are not being patient enough with the ways we have been taught to pray in Christianity?

 

[ptisme]

friardchips:
Did Christ teach going for a jog? Did Christ teach getting from point A to point B via an automobile? Did Christ teach communication with a cell phone?
These and more are legitimate questions that need to be asked.

 

[friardchips]

Did Christ teach going for a jog? Did Christ teach getting from point A to point B via an automobile? Did Christ teach communication with a cell phone?
These and more are legitimate questions that need to be asked.

Valid questions, thanks. I would suggest that Yoga cannot be compared with going for a jog or going for a ride in an automobile or speaking on a cell phone.

The reasons:

• Jogging has never been documented as being used as the access point for worship to gods. Doesn’t really apply here.
• Automobiles had not been invented yet and so no one would have known what Jesus was talking about, neither had cell phones.

Because Yoga has been around - no doubt being used at the same time as the Jews during the history lived out in the Hebrew Scriptures - for quite a long time before cell phones and cars. Maybe Yoga was being taught as something to avoid by Isaiah before and after the Babylonian exile (dates might be a bit out there) but worth consideration, maybe. Nevertheless, I’d imagine Yoga was known in various communities wide and far during Jesus’ time and the NT at least seems to have no mention of Yoga as acceptable means of ‘connecting’ to prayer! Isaiah certainly does warn us against ‘Diviners’, so maybe this warning applies to those who teach Yoga?! :bigyikes:

 

[AnnieHall]

Your chattiness is welcomed and appreciated! And your obvious positive outlook is a breath of fresh air. If I forgot my to-do-list this would mean forgetting where I put it!

No opinions here, or this thread as a whole, is aimed at individuals or their own personal experiences (just to remind). Many thanks for sharing your side of the debate!

Btw…if you think that is tough, you could try Zumba! If you do, a tip, take a drink with you for after!

I’ve done Zumba a couple times! Challenging in a different type of way. I think yoga is a little more controlled, more reeeeach and hold and long lines and breathe always try to get a little lower/higher/deeper/taller/etc. Then Zumba (for me, the uncoordinated) is more chaotic, more just try to keep up without running into anyone!

I’m not very good at letting go of my to do list either, although there are some classes I’ve been to that are so hard, it takes all my focus just to remember to keep breathing while trying my best to keep up, because of the fast tempo/difficulty of what we’re trying to do.

 

[Michael_Mayo]

Does intention not have to be educated? yes

Who has the authority to teach Yoga? No consistent standard

Did Christ teach Yoga, did He give us instructions? Bhakti-yes, hatha-no

Did the Saints teach Yoga, for they must have known about Yoga if it is a widespread. No

Eastern practice that has been going for longer than Christianity, did St. John of the Cross? Does it matter?

These Yoga teachers, from where do they get their knowledge? Other teachers

How do the Yoga teachers know what is beyond the physical realm? Revealed or subtle perception?

If yoga is a form of connecting, before prayer, then doesn’t this still mean communication of sorts with or without the spirituality? I guess.

If demons are tapped into via Yoga then why are they going to disregard Yoga as worship all of a sudden in the West, will they not still be attracted to what was attributed to them for thousands of years? Who says demons are tapped into via Yoga?

And simultaneously, why do people ignore the dangers to do with the psychological trap that is reincarnation? What dangers?

What is wrong with exercise that doesn’t approach Yoga? Nothing.

No one can deny Yoga gives physical strength, at least in the short term, but is the Christian meant to seek worldly happiness before eternal happiness, or is it the narrow not the wide path we are taught to follow? There is nothing wrong with seeking happiness in this world. Do you think it is a healthy Christian practice to seek gloom?

What is wrong on the spirituality side of things with praying the meditation we have been taught or learnt as Christians? Nothing.

Are people really doing Yoga because they are not being patient enough with the ways we have been taught to pray in Christianity? No.

 

[friardchips]

I’ve done Zumba a couple times! Challenging in a different type of way. I think yoga is a little more controlled, more reeeeach and hold and long lines and breathe always try to get a little lower/higher/deeper/taller/etc. Then Zumba (for me, the uncoordinated) is more chaotic, more just try to keep up without running into anyone!

Zumba’s a combo of various dance steps isn’t it, and gymnastics, or something? Designed to push people’s endurance. And I’ve heard before that running into people is also part of it, as you described! This must make for some funny, giggling moments, which can only be healthy, I reckon. Overall, the sort of thing though that takes a lot of practice to get right.

I’m not very good at letting go of my to do list either, although there are some classes I’ve been to that are so hard, it takes all my focus just to remember to keep breathing while trying my best to keep up, because of the fast tempo/difficulty of what we’re trying to do.

You make Yoga sound like a cross between being stretched by horses and giving birth. Some arm movements look a bit like ballet. The leg positions look as if to have bones in one’s body might rule Yoga out as a possibility (dum dum duuuum!!!), maybe not the ‘Diviners’ category though. I think at the very least, for a Christian, saying some prayers beforehand might help to keep the possible lingering odour of Kundalini Pasta at bay (prevent any danger spiritual attack, IOW). But if the lights blow in the middle of the routine…

 

[friardchips]

Does intention not have to be educated? yes

Hi. Nice to have you back.

I remember us agreeing on this before. So training one’s intentions with solid Catholic teaching could be considered advisable before people go wandering off in all sorts of fancy directions linked with non-Christian spiritual practices. We know the intentions of the Apostles and disciples and the saints so maybe the Christian could do with getting engrossed in their teachings instead.

Who has the authority to teach Yoga? No consistent standard

Okay.

Did Christ teach Yoga, did He give us instructions? Bhakti-yes, hatha-no

Bhakti, how so?

Did the Saints teach Yoga, for they must have known about Yoga if it is a widespread. No

Okay.

Eastern practice that has been going for longer than Christianity, did St. John of the Cross? Does it matter?

Yes, I think so. Because if there have been certain practices around that were not brought into the Christian faith, ever, by those who knew how things stood, then one has a kind of duty to ask why they didn’t.

These Yoga teachers, from where do they get their knowledge? Other teachers

And who are their ‘other teachers’?

How do the Yoga teachers know what is beyond the physical realm? Revealed or subtle perception?

We know in the Christian Church that all public witness to the Gospel of Christ is tested against the private revelation lived by the apostles. We have the Holy See. Our prayers are always in accord with our faith. With no standard or measure people could be at the hands of any ‘vibration’ (as you called it).

If yoga is a form of connecting, before prayer, then doesn’t this still mean communication of sorts with or without the spirituality? I guess.

So, IOW, exercise, whether for the spiritual aspect or not, can indeed invite the spiritual aspect, with or without intention to invite, and therefore if Yoga was used for ‘connecting’ with non-eastern deities or whatever one wants to call them, higher powers - you name it, then this is a possible outcome of mere Yoga exercise?

If demons are tapped into via Yoga then why are they going to disregard Yoga as worship all of a sudden in the West, will they not still be attracted to what was attributed to them for thousands of years? Who says demons are tapped into via Yoga?

Reincarnation psychology that comes with the spiritual practice and the fact that many Christian families are being pulled away from their faith shortly after having begun the practice of Yoga. There are many accounts. I can pull some up for you but you have read some of these already from another poster in another previous thread.

And simultaneously, why do people ignore the dangers to do with the psychological trap that is reincarnation? What dangers?

Already answered.

What is wrong with exercise that doesn’t approach Yoga? Nothing.

Then why choose Yoga over normal exercise if normal exercise can do the job? Why look into it?

No one can deny Yoga gives physical strength, at least in the short term, but is the Christian meant to seek worldly happiness before eternal happiness, or is it the narrow not the wide path we are taught to follow? There is nothing wrong with seeking happiness in this world.’

Do you think it is a healthy Christian practice to seek gloom?

No, one is to avoid evil and fast from things that have a worldly allure - you know, Christianity - putting Heaven first and all that?!

What is wrong on the spirituality side of things with praying the meditation we have been taught or learnt as Christians? Nothing.

Exactly.

Are people really doing Yoga because they are not being patient enough with the ways we have been taught to pray in Christianity? No.

Most likely true, to be honest.

Thanks for going through my questions!

 

[friardchips]

• Does intention not have to be educated? Yes.
• Who has the authority to teach Yoga? No standard.
• Did Christ teach Yoga, did He give us instructions? Bhakti.
• Did the Saints teach Yoga, for they must have known about Yoga if it is a widespread Eastern practice that has been going for longer than Christianity, did St. John of the Cross? No. Does it matter.
• These Yoga teachers, from where do they get their knowledge? Other teachers.
• How do the Yoga teachers know what is beyond the physical realm? Revealed or subtle perception.
• If yoga is a form of connecting, before prayer, then doesn’t this still mean communication of sorts with or without the spirituality? I guess.
• If demons are tapped into via Yoga then why are they going to disregard Yoga as worship all of a sudden in the West, will they not still be attracted to what was attributed to them for thousands of years? Who says they are.
• And simultaneously, why do people ignore the dangers to do with the psychological trap that is reincarnation? What dangers.
• What is wrong with exercise that doesn’t approach Yoga? Nothing.
• No one can deny Yoga gives physical strength, at least in the short term, but is the Christian meant to seek worldly happiness before eternal happiness, or is it the narrow not the wide path we are taught to follow? Is the Christian meant to practice doom and gloom.
• What is wrong on the spirituality side of things with praying the meditation we have been taught or learnt as Christians? Nothing.
• Are people really doing Yoga because they are not being patient enough with the ways we have been taught to pray in Christianity? No.

So, to respond:

 

[friardchips]

…

You say that intention does need to be educated and yet I gave no criteria, so this was a general agreement IOW, a confirmation that you believe people’s intentions need to be educated in order to make wise decisions - why else would a person’s intentions need to be! Then you state there is no authority, no standard, for the teaching of Yoga. But in life, one’s intentions are educated by experiences and learning, which serve to educate a person’s conscience in order for them to be able to make wise decisions – the growth of conscience is educated by standards and this is education of the mind, of the heart, for good reasons (wisdom) - and so, if there is no standard in Yoga then how is one to know the standard of education if there is none to measure up against. (You said Christ taught Bhakti Yoga, if you could point to the exact part of the NT in English, Latin, Hebrew where it says this, until then, this does not hold - you said there were no saints which taught Yoga, but if Christ taught it, they would have done, the faith of the Church depends on Christ’s teaching). So the saints did not contribute a standard by which we could measure learning of Yoga. So no standard there set by the most holy of people who were the most loyal followers of Christ in the Church. It matters for that reason. Maybe they did speak about Yoga but not favourably when they spoke generically about outside influences. Obviously caring what the saints write is a matter of piety and love for Christ’s Church. You say “other teachers” taught Yoga to Western teachers, so by that you mean teachers from non-Christian religious cults, otherwise you might have been more specific. Revealed and subtle perception with no gauge set is no standard. We are Christians that have the witness of our faith measured up to the standards of the apostles and of course, Jesus. Outside of this, there is no measure to tell what is initiating our apparent ‘connection’. Our prayers, answers, meditation, when all safely within the realms of solid Christian teaching is guided by God, and by those who are appointed by Christ, following Him. This is the narrow path. And because you’ve agreed that connecting can happen before the prayer/study, then intention, especially intention which has got no measure, does not hold weight and so does not decrease the likelihood of the spiritual dimension being only a small step from the exercises if not already there – communication is communication unless broken (or blessed). Unless of course people believe that there are dominions below God who it is okay to ‘connect’ with. Christians believe the God we have been taught about is the God we are to worship and be “in relationship” with (to quote a tutor). You ask if demons are there or not. What is a demon’s most favourite choice meal – do you think it is possessing a pagan, do you think it is mass slaughter, because there are many who’d believe that the demon would favour steering a single baptised Christian away from their faith more so than these other choices. You said “who says they are”, so by all accounts I understand that you don’t pay me the same compliment by reading the links I provide that I pay other posters by reading theirs. Reincarnation is a trapping of the mind and a nasty one, and to be avoided, as it is diabolical in nature set to drive people against the very crux of our faith – the Resurrection. Now you’ve said there is nothing wrong with exercise outside of Yoga, so there has to be reason why, if people can do exercise that is okay outside of Yoga, there has to be a reason for people visiting Yoga sites in the first place. And I think it is because Christians allow our friends who are maybe not Christians who do Yoga to influence our decision-making. The internet is also providing many routes to dangerous scenarios because the Church is only catching up web-wise and maybe has a lack of guidance over such matters. Now your answer here was the most telling: “is the Christian meant to live in doom and gloom?” With this statement fitted in with the other questions, it says more than just an attempt at an immediate response to a question, it quite clearly points to the fact that you believe Christian teaching inside the Church, from the saints, and the safety net against pollution of faith you consider to be an unhappy approach. It is funny, because we are taught within solid Christian teaching that to walk the narrow path brings true, deep joy and peace, as this puts Heaven first in our hearts, as opposed to worldly allure that divides us from our treasure of faith. You’ve stated that you believe there is nothing wrong with Christian meditation, and in the past have mentioned St. John of the Cross; yet, if you had learnt about him, you would not have said about “doom and gloom” - you appear to be using him as a way of arguing for Yoga when the two don’t comply.

 

[Michael_Mayo]

In yoga, that is, in the many forms of a serious approach to spirituality in India, there is a linage of teachers or gurus. in the Catholic teaching we call it apostolic succession. But In the east who is to say whose teacher is better or more wise?

The Gospel of John is especially imbued with Christ’s teaching about love and unity and worship. “Bahkti” is the yoga of worship just as Jnana is the yoga of wisdom. In that sense yoga has been taught by Christ and every saint. Specific stretches and postures of Hatha yoga are another issue.

You seem to be referring specifically to hatha yoga, stretches and postures. It is very clear that the teachings of Christ and those closest to him are far more concerned with moral teachings of love and practical virtues than physical health.

Most people have to learn from some one else. Even a runner or weightlifter learns proper from and technique form someone else.

… Revealed and subtle perception with no gauge set is no standard. We are Christians that have the witness of our faith measured up to the standards of the apostles and of course, Jesus. Outside of this, there is no measure to tell what is initiating our apparent ‘connection’. Our prayers, answers, meditation, when all safely within the realms of solid Christian teaching is guided by God, and by those who are appointed by Christ, following Him. This is the narrow path. And because you’ve agreed that connecting can happen before the prayer/study, then intention, especially intention which has got no measure, does not hold weight and so does not decrease the likelihood of the spiritual dimension being only a small step from the exercises if not already there – communication is communication unless broken (or blessed). Unless of course people believe that there are dominions below God who it is okay to ‘connect’ with.

Sorry but I am not following you. I think some standard are universal, like virtues for example.

…Christians believe the God we have been taught about is the God we are to worship and be “in relationship” with (to quote a tutor). You ask if demons are there or not. What is a demon’s most favorite choice meal – do you think it is possessing a pagan, do you think it is mass slaughter, because there are many who’d believe that the demon would favor steering a single baptized Christian away from their faith more so than these other choices.

Holding to Christian faith is the key. But it is a faith that can embrace much more than Eurocentric practices.

…You said “who says they are”, so by all accounts I understand that you don’t pay me the same compliment by reading the links I provide that I pay other posters by reading theirs.

Links to anecdotal stories mean very little. Look at actual research. What we find there are only beneficial results from yoga.

…Reincarnation is a trapping of the mind and a nasty one, and to be avoided, as it is diabolical in nature set to drive people against the very crux of our faith – the Resurrection.

Why are we confusing things with the subject of reincarnation? That is another matter.

…Now you’ve said there is nothing wrong with exercise outside of Yoga, so there has to be reason why, if people can do exercise that is okay outside of Yoga, there has to be a reason for people visiting Yoga sites in the first place. And I think it is because Christians allow our friends who are maybe not Christians who do Yoga to influence our decision-making. The internet is also providing many routes to dangerous scenarios because the Church is only catching up web-wise and maybe has a lack of guidance over such matters. Now your answer here was the most telling: “is the Christian meant to live in doom and gloom?” With this statement fitted in with the other questions, it says more than just an attempt at an immediate response to a question, it quite clearly points to the fact that you believe Christian teaching inside the Church, from the saints, and the safety net against pollution of faith you consider to be an unhappy approach.

That is a totally erroneous conclusion you have come to. Your post came across as promoting the idea that physical wellbeing is in opposition to spiritual wellbeing. That I must take issue with.

…It is funny, because we are taught within solid Christian teaching that to walk the narrow path brings true, deep joy and peace, as this puts Heaven first in our hearts, as opposed to worldly allure that divides us from our treasure of faith. You’ve stated that you believe there is nothing wrong with Christian meditation, and in the past have mentioned St. John of the Cross; yet, if you had learnt about him, you would not have said about “doom and gloom” - you appear to be using him as a way of arguing for Yoga when the two don’t comply.

Again, my comment about “gloom” (not doom) was a response to your comment about your belief in the opposition of physical and spiritual well being. St John of the Cross taught apophatic spirituality which has more to do with the will and taming of desires. I do not see how it is linked to yoga except as a form of self discipline.

 

[Michael_Mayo]

I also wanted to note that I think the idea that a physical posture or stretch will somehow invite or invoke the demonic, regardless of intention, borders on superstition. It is God who created the body. Our incarnation is a gift and God has given us various means to keep it well. It is not a sin, nor is it spiritually dangerous to take care of our bodies. Exercises including yoga have been proven by many studies to assist in this wellness.