YOGA...ooer!

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More to reflect upon:
None of this says what you think it does because otherwise it would contradict what I posted earlier also from the CCC!
  1. Human experience shows that the position and demeanor of the body also have their influence on the recollection and dispositions of the spirit. This is a fact to which some eastern and western Christian spiritual writers have directed their attention.
Well within Christianity - East and West.
Now I am green…
Their reflections, while presenting points in common with eastern non-Christian methods of meditation, avoid the exaggerations and partiality of the latter, which, however, are often recommended to people today who are not sufficiently prepared./
Exactly.

You’ve misinterpreted.
The spiritual authors have adopted those elements which make recollection in prayer easier, at the same time recognizing their relative value: **they are useful if reformulated in accordance with the aim of Christian prayer. **
For example, the Christian fast signifies, above all, an exercise of penitence and sacrifice; but, already for the Fathers, it also had the aim of rendering man more open to the encounter with God and making a Christian more capable of self-dominion and at the same time more attentive to those in need.

Self-dominion isn’t self-empowerment!

This actually, apart from fasting, does not comment on non-Christian practice.
In prayer it is the whole man who must enter into relation with God, and so his body should also take up the position most suited to recollection. Such a position can in a symbolic way express the prayer itself, depending on cultures and personal sensibilities. In some aspects, Christians are today becoming more conscious of how one’s bodily posture can aid prayer.
Still doesn’t mention Yoga.
  1. Eastern Christian meditation has valued psychophysical symbolism, often absent in western forms of prayer.
Yes, the operative word being “Christian”!
It can range from a specific bodily posture to the basic life functions, such as breathing or the beating of the heart. The exercise of the “Jesus Prayer,” for example, which adapts itself to the natural rhythm of breathing can, at least for a certain time, be of real help to many people
.

This is not Yoga. It is Christian prayer and meditation. In fact, the breathing is normal.
On the other hand, the eastern masters themselves have also noted that **not everyone is equally suited to making use of this symbolism, since not everybody is able to pass from the material sign to the spiritual **
reality that is being sought.

I still see no comment about Yoga in the positive sense. This is talking about how putting the body into positions can cause issues.
Understood in an inadequate and incorrect way, the symbolism can even become an idol and thus an obstacle to the raising up of the spirit to God.
To live out in one’s prayer the full awareness of one’s body as a symbol is even more difficult: it can degenerate into a cult of the body and can lead surreptitiously to considering all bodily sensations as spiritual experiences.

Like Yoga.
  1. Some physical exercises automatically produce a feeling of quiet and relaxation, pleasing sensations, perhaps even phenomena of light and of warmth, which resemble spiritual well-being.
Yes, exactly, RESEMBLE! Satan can appear as an angel of light, remember?!
To take such feelings for the authentic consolations of the Holy Spirit would be a totally erroneous way of conceiving the spiritual life.
Boom shakalaka boom. Exactly, brother Christian.
Giving them a symbolic significance typical of the mystical experience, when the moral condition of the person concerned does not correspond to such an experience,
would represent a kind of mental schizophrenia which could also lead to psychic disturbance and, at times, to moral deviations.

You don’t exactly aid your viewpoint here. This is the result as have many people blogged complaining about such issues.
That does not mean that genuine practices of meditation which come from the Christian East and from the great non-Christian religions, which prove attractive to the man of today who is divided and disoriented, cannot constitute a suitable means of helping the person who prays to come before God with an interior peace, even in the midst of external pressures.
This is talking about methods of CHRISTIAN EASTERN PRAYER NOT NON-CHRISTIAN EASTERN PRACTICES! 😉 What the CCC is concerned about is the Christian mantra that is widespread in the West and helps a lot of people. This is just simple sitting if need be and resting in the Lord. They are obviously concerned with ultra-modernists who like those that practice Yoga might make the position the basis of the prayer turning it into a form of cult worship!..

like Yoga.
It should, however, be remembered that habitual union with God, namely that attitude of interior vigilance and appeal to the divine assistance which in the New Testament is called “continuous prayer,” is not necessarily interrupted when one devotes oneself also, according to the will of God, to work and to the care of one’s neighbor. “So, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God,” the Apostle tells us
(1 Cor 10:31). In fact, genuine prayer, as the great spiritual masters teach, stirs up in the person who prays an ardent charity which moves him to collaborate in the mission of the Church and to serve his brothers for the greater glory of God.

Hence, my comment about washing up. Which is what I’m trying to do here!

Bye green.
 
Just as with everyone else, some Catholics are against tatoos and piercings, some are not. It’s a matter of personal preference and opinion.
Yes, we all have choices. And some are responsible ones that look out not just for oneself but for the good of others and there are some choices which lead to perdition when seeking to achieve power for the self:

“You shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor tattoo marks upon you: I am the Lord.” – Leviticus 19:28

I take it we do all believe here that the Holy Spirit spoke through prophets in the OT and that Jesus said He didn’t come to do away with our heritage but rather to complete it?
 
This is talking about methods of CHRISTIAN EASTERN PRAYER NOT NON-CHRISTIAN EASTERN PRACTICES! 😉
Read it again

That does not mean that genuine practices of meditation which come from the Christian East and fromthe great non-Christian religions, which prove attractive to the man of today who is divided and disoriented, cannot constitute a suitable means of helping the person who prays to come before God with an interior peace, even in the midst of external pressures.

In the context of paragraph 28. Some physical exercises
 
Read it again

That does not mean that genuine practices of meditation which come from the Christian East and fromthe great non-Christian religions, which prove attractive to the man of today who is divided and disoriented, cannot constitute a suitable means of helping the person who prays to come before God with an interior peace, even in the midst of external pressures.

In the context of paragraph 28. Some physical exercises
You are completely taking this out of context to try and promote Yoga.

Where does it say Yoga? What they are not saying is for the Christian to practice non-Eastern spirituality as this would make you a heretic! 😃 They are saying that mankind, can do this in order to come before God - this is an evangelical pronouncement to show that God can be found in other religions, it is NOT saying that the Christian is to practice Yoga!

The West needs less Yoga and more of this:

religious-vocation.com/redemptive_suffering.html#.VPpFCo1yb4g

Real Christianity!

Sainthood!

Salvation!

Heaven for eternity!

:rolleyes:
 
  1. Human experience shows that the position and demeanor of the body also have their influence on the recollection and dispositions of the spirit.
It can, this is so we are to relax during any CHRISTIAN meditation for the CHRISTIAN.
This is a fact to which some eastern and western Christian spiritual writers have directed their attention.
 
I’d hardly call Yoga an exercise of penitence and sacrifice.
Really?! Have you ever done it?
This is talking about the CHRISTIAN Mantra for CHRISTIANS and saying that non-Christians might find God IN amongst their meditative practices, at God’s discretion. The Christian is NOT being told to explore non-religious worship, or YOGA.
Take of your prejudiced lenses and read it again.

It is about “the man of today who is divided and disoriented” (not just non-Christians) attracted to “genuine practices of meditation which come from the Christian East and from the great non-Christian religions” finding “suitable means of helping the person who prays to come before God with an interior peace, even in the midst of external pressures”. In the context of paragraphs about “physical exercises” How does it not apply to yoga?

This has become tedious. Thanks for the discussion but I think I need to stretch out some stress.:eek:
 
Really?! Have you ever done it?Take of your prejudiced lenses and read it again. t is about “the man of today who is divided and disoriented” (not just non-Christians) attracted to “genuine practices of meditation which come from the Christian East and from the great non-Christian religions” finding “suitable means of helping the person who prays to come before God with an interior peace, even in the midst of external pressures”. In the context of paragraphs about “physical exercises” How does it not apply to yoga?This has become tedious. Thanks for the discussion but I think I need to stretch out some stress.:eek:
Never needed to, sitting in the Lord’s presence is enough for everyone. Prejudice is not the right word, duty-of-care would be the correct expression.

And you’re welcome. 🙂 Maybe after 40 years wandering in the desert one might consider the possibility of renouncing all participation in non-Catholic practices. If I had done Yoga even once, the Sacrament of Reconciliation would be the next step! Non-Christian practices avoided by the Christian, for the benefit of the Christian, and the rest of the Church, is not a matter of opinion, it is not each to their own, it is a commandment.

Take care.
 
Hi. Thanks for joining. If the Pope decrees something we are to find out why he said it. This is acting responsibly upon our faith.
I searched and failed to find any papal decree, “Catholics are not allowed to practice Yoga.” Please direct me to this. I have read the links you provided earlier (spiritualDirection dot com) and while laden with opinion, they were very thin on references and facts.

What I do see is a caution against engaging in the religious aspect of yoga, as well as other practices. However, in most western practice, from what I’ve seen, that has been stripped out. Furthermore, Catholics are not stupid. Certainly we can discern and reject on our own.
It seems people don’t really respect the line of St. Peter, from what I’ve read in this thread so far. But this is piety, a gift which becomes a little hazy after practicing non-Christian, pagan-esque rituals.
There is a lot of disrespect for the teachings of the Church these days. People claiming to be Catholic and supporting abortion and contraception, for instance. There is also a lot of misunderstandings regarding what the church teaches. Evolution is fact and homosexuality is itself not sinful are two such examples. However, I don’t see now that disrespect applies here. Please explain.
I don’t think this is the case at all with the Tridentine Mass. I’ve never met anyone who doesn’t like the Old Mass, it is just that Trad. Caths ruin and spoil it for everyone else like spoilt little children.
I have met people who dislike it. I have actually heard, after such a Mass, comments such as , “I’m glad not all Masses are like that!” You can not take your personal experiences as the total experience of the entire Catholic community. I admit I don’t understand you last line above about the Trad. Caths. so maybe my problem is there.
 
Non-Christian practices avoided by the Christian, for the benefit of the Christian, and the rest of the Church, is not a matter of opinion, it is not each to their own, it is a commandment.
That is simply not true. Rejecting such practices is clearly a personal crusade for some, a commandment which you have pronounced, but it is not a commandment of the Church.
 
Never needed to, sitting in the Lord’s presence is enough for everyone. Prejudice is not the right word, duty-of-care would be the correct expression.

And you’re welcome. 🙂 Maybe after 40 years wandering in the desert one might consider the possibility of renouncing all participation in non-Catholic practices. If I had done Yoga even once, the Sacrament of Reconciliation would be the next step! Non-Christian practices avoided by the Christian, for the benefit of the Christian, and the rest of the Church, is not a matter of opinion, it is not each to their own, it is a commandment.

Take care.
You ignored my question

Originally Posted by Michael Mayo
It is about “the man of today who is divided and disoriented” (not just non-Christians)
attracted to “genuine practices of meditation which come from the Christian East and from the great non-Christian religions
finding
“suitable means of helping the person who prays to come before God with an interior peace, even in the midst of external pressures”.

In the context of paragraphs about “physical exercises

How does it not apply to yoga?
 
Yoga, just like anything can be taken to a distorted extreme. You seem to target such extremes as the norm for yoga. For most of us Catholics who practice it, it is one form of self discipline in the larger context of our Christian lives. As such,at least for me, it does have spiritual value, like fasting or bowing. It is a way to more fully engage the body in prayer and thus more totally give ourselves to God. Others are satisfied with the documented health benefits alone.
I really appreciate your perspective on this.
Just as with everyone else, some Catholics are against tatoos and piercings, some are not. It’s a matter of personal preference and opinion.
Okay, that makes sense. Thank you!
I searched and failed to find any papal decree, “Catholics are not allowed to practice Yoga.” Please direct me to this. I have read the links you provided earlier (spiritualDirection dot com) and while laden with opinion, they were very thin on references and facts.

What I do see is a caution against engaging in the religious aspect of yoga, as well as other practices. However, in most western practice, from what I’ve seen, that has been stripped out. Furthermore, Catholics are not stupid. Certainly we can discern and reject on our own.
That is simply not true. Rejecting such practices is clearly a personal crusade for some, a commandment which you have pronounced, but it is not a commandment of the Church.
This is good to know. Thank you!

Jesus is so much more important to me than yoga, and if I ever find that I’m putting too much emphasis on yoga or that it’s harming my walk with Him, I’ll laid it aside.

I personally have not thought of my participation in yoga as a spiritual practice, except that I do believe that as Christians all we do has a spiritual element. Yoga helps me feel more calm, with the deep and even breathing, the calm stillness of the room, the encouragement of the teacher to lay aside my “to-do” list for that short time and just be present, the encouragement to accept myself where I am (and have a sense of humor), i.e. my inability to do some of the poses without falling over lol (it’s not a competition or comparison), the quiet music, the darkened room, the gentle movement to the sound of my breath. And sometimes we are encouraged before class to set an intention such as gratitude or forgiveness. I don’t know . . . maybe that sounds weird to some, but for me it’s a time of blessing.

I don’t care for debate, but much prefer dialogue, so I can understand what other’s believe better. And the Catholic elements are things I’m not familiar with, so that’s why I’m not saying much about that. blush But I’m glad I can read along.
 
From Friardchips:
I’d hardly call Yoga an exercise of penitence and sacrifice.
Good Evening Friadrchips: Actually there is a great deal of sacrifice involved in the true practice of yoga. The full practice of yoga includes a very strict vegetarian diet every day of ones life - not just Fridays in Lent, celibacy - not just for priests, truthfulness in all of one’s dealings, daily prayer, daily meditation, daily study of scripture and the list goes on. Whether one agrees with the practices or not, it cannot be said that it doesn’t include sacrifice. It Is quite the opposite.
The physical postures that people undertake can become idol worship, like Yoga.
Are you able to name a particular posture that is done as a means idol worship?
Cult practices like Yoga.
The term cult is usually applied to a system of religious veneration and devotion that is practiced by a relatively small group of people. There are about 1 billion Hindus on the planet - many of whom do yoga, and about 1 billion Catholics on the planet, and some of these do yoga as well. So do many protestants. I don’t think yoga qualifies as a cult practice any more than celebrating the mass does by definition. In fact, there are probably more people doing yoga than there are people celebrating the Mass, and yoga can be done with or without religious intent and the Mass cannot be done without religious intent. Because if this, and by all practical means, the centerpiece of our religious practice actually better qualifies as a cult practice than does yoga, because it is strictly a religious practice and is probably done by fewer people.
As I noted about issues people have had after having undertaken Yoga idol worship.
If we are to be totally honest and pragmatic, we would have to admit that any religious system when taken to extremes can cause issues, and as history has shown, this includes our own religion.

All the best,
Gary
 
catholiceducation.org/en/culture/catholic-contributions/why-is-yoga-incompatible-with-catholicism.html

‘Why is Yoga incompatible with Catholicism?

FATHER JOHN A. HARDON, S.J

Yoga is incompatible with Catholicism because the best known practice of Hindu spirituality is Yoga. Inner Hinduism professes pantheism, which denies that there is only one infinite Being who created the world out of nothing.

This pantheistic Hinduism says to the multitude of uncultured believers who follow the ways of the gods that they will receive the reward of the gods. They will have brief tastes of heaven between successive rebirths on earth. But they will never be delivered from the wheel of existence with its illusory lives and deaths until they realize that only God exists and all else is illusion (Maya). **To achieve this liberation the principal way is by means of concentration and self control (yoga). **

Indian spirituality is perhaps best known by the practice of yoga, derived from the root yuj to unite or yoke, which in context means union with the Absolute. Numerous stages are distinguished in the upward progress toward the supreme end of identification: by means of knowledge with the deity; the practice of moral virtues and observance of ethical rules; bodily postures; control of internal and external senses; concentration of memory and meditationfinally terminating in total absorption (samadhi), when the seer stands in his own nature.

Although the psychic element is far more important in yoga than the body, the latter is more characteristic of this method of Hindu liberation. Its purpose is to secure the best disposition of body for the purpose of meditation. The practice begins with a simple device for deep and slow breathing.

Stopping the right nostril with the thumb, through the left nostril fill in air, according to capacity. Then without any interval, throw the air out through the right nostril, eject through the left, according to capacity. Practicing this three or five times at four hours of the day, before dawn, during midday, in the evening, and at midnight, in fifteen days or a month purity of the nerves is attained.

After such preliminary exercises, more complicated practices are undertaken, but not without the guidance of a professional yogin, called guru. The meditative phase begins with fixing the mind on one object, which may be anything whatsoever, the sphere of the navel, the lotus of the heart, the light of the brain, the tip of the nose, the tip of the tongue, and such like parts of the body or also God, who on Hindu terms is the only real being who exists.

Gradually by sheer concentration of attention; the mind reaches a state of trance, where all mental activity stops and the consciousness rests in itself. The state of samadhi is the culmination of yoga and beyond it lies release. The life of the soul is not destroyed but is reduced to its unconscious and permanent essence.’
 
And on the subject if the Exodus yesterday, today’s reading at Mass happens to be…

'Exodus 20: 1-17:

God spoke all these words. He said, "I am the Lord your God who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery.

You shall have no gods except me.

You shall not make yourself a carved image or likeness of anything in Heaven or on earth beneath or in the waters under the earth; you shall not bow down to them or serve them.

For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God and I punish the father’s fault in the sons, the grandsons, and the great-grandsons of those who hate me; but I show kindness to those who love me and keep my commandments.

You shall not utter the name of the Lord your God to misuse it, for the Lord will not leave unpunished the man who utters his name to misuse it."’

God bless.

🙂
 
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