YOGA...ooer!

  • Thread starter Thread starter friardchips
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Sorry,friardchips,I could not resist. I am not trying to derail the thread but I was researching some articles about “channeling” aliens and stumbled across this.I just HAD to share with everyone here.😃 ALIEN YOGA lol
It’s funny! 😃 The thread needed some light relief, even from aliens!
 
No, I don’t. I mean what I said, for the reasons I gave.
Ah, join the fun!

Transforming belongs to Megatron alone.

Seriously, we do not need to transform our brains, to pray.
And here I’ve been told by Catholics for years that Catholicism is a both/and religion and does not deny the value of human effort:shrug:
Ah, you see here is the problem again. The CCC quite clearly tells us that the effects of prayer, love, does not come about because of any power in our actions but rather because our Creator WILLS love to us.
Why are you so interested in left-handed Tantrism, then? Why not focus on mainstream expressions of Hinduism?
It is to do with strands of truth and mistruth. Something has to be incorrect if one strand contradicts another - either the root, or the teaching of the root, or the teaching of the strands of the root, or the strands and the root.
You don’t want to understand. You want sound bites that you can use for your propaganda.
Let’s not judge the intentions of others.
You aren’t speaking as a person who is actually interested in truth.
Let’s not judge the intentions of others.
I suggest you rethink your approach, which is not glorifying God or honoring Christ. Either drop your interest in yoga or start trying to understand it fairly.
Rethink my approach of sound reasoning?!! That again, does not make any logical sense!
 
Continued from [(name removed by moderator)lainsite.org/html/yoga_and_christianity.html:](http://www.(name removed by moderator)lainsite.org/html/yoga_and_christianity.html:)
'Yoga and Christianity: What are the Differences?Many people today (including some Christians) are taking up yoga practice. We’ll later consider whether yoga philosophy can truly be separated from yoga practice, but we must first establish that there are crucial doctrinal differences between yoga and Christianity. Let’s briefly look at just a few of these. First, yoga and Christianity have very different concepts of God. As previously stated, the goal of yoga is to experience union with “God.” But what do yogis mean when they speak of “God,” or Brahman? Exactly what are we being encouraged to “unite” with? Most yogis conceive of “God” as an impersonal, spiritual substance, coextensive with all of reality. This doctrine is called pantheism, the view that everything is “God.” It differs markedly from the theism of biblical Christianity. In the Bible, God reveals Himself as the personal Creator of the universe. God is the Creator; the universe, His creation. The Bible maintains a careful distinction between the two.{9}'
Since yoga philosophy teaches that everything is “God,” it necessarily follows that man, too, is “God.” Christianity, however, makes a clear distinction between God and man. God is the Creator; man is one of His creatures -
This difference between Yoga and Christianity is also problematic. Christians do not believe we are gods.
Yoga conceives man’s problem primarily in terms of ignorance; man simply doesn’t realize that he is “God.” The solution is enlightenment, an experience of union with "God." This solution (which is the goal of yoga) can only be reached through much personal striving and effort. Christianity, however, sees man’s primary problem as sin, a failure to conform to both the character and standards of a morally perfect God. Man is thus alienated from God and in need of reconciliation. The solution is Jesus Christ, “the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world.”{11} Through Jesus’ death on the cross, God reconciled the world to Himself.{12} He now calls men to freely receive all the benefits of His salvation through faith in Christ alone. Unlike yoga, Christianity views salvation as a free gift. It can only be received; it can never be earned. Clearly, Christianity and yoga are mutually exclusive viewpoints. But is every kind of yoga the same?
As this passage says: ‘Unlike Yoga, Christianity views salvation as a free gift. It can only be received; it can never be earned.’
 
Continued:
‘What Is Hatha Yoga?..Isn’t hatha yoga simply concerned with physical development and good health? Hatha yoga is primarily concerned with two things: asana (physical postures) and pranayama (breathing exercises). But it’s important to realize that both asana and pranayama also play a significant role in Patanjali’s raja (or “royal”) yoga. In the traditional eight “limbs” of Patanjali’s system, asana and pranayama are limbs three and four. What then is the relationship of hatha to raja yoga? Former yoga practitioner Dave Fetcho states that yoga postures "evolved as an integral part of Raja . . . Yoga."{13} He points out that the author of the famous handbook, the** Hatha Yoga Pradipika, “presents Hatha . . . solely and exclusively for the attainment of Raja Yoga**.”{14} He also cites a French yoga scholar who claims, "the sole purpose of . . . Hatha Yoga is to suppress physical obstacles on the . . . Royal path of Raja Yoga and Hatha Yoga is therefore called 'the ladder to Raja Yoga.’"{15} Fetcho concurs, noting that the physical postures are "specifically designed to manipulate consciousness…into Raja Yoga’s consummate experience of samadhi: undifferentiated union with the primal essence of consciousness."{16} These statements should make it quite clear that hatha, or physical, yoga has historically been viewed simply as a means of aiding the yogi in attaining enlightenment, the final limb of raja yoga. This is further confirmed by looking at Iyengar yoga, possibly the most popular form of hatha yoga in the U.S. The Web site for the Iyengar Yoga Institute of San Francisco states: “BKS Iyengar studies and teaches yoga as unfolded in the Yoga Sutras of Patanjaili [sic] and the Hatha Yoga Pradipika among other classical texts. Thus Asana, or postures, are taught as one of the eight limbs . . . of yoga defined by Patanjali.”{17} In fact, the ultimate goal of Iyengar hatha yoga is precisely the same as that of Patanjali’s raja yoga.{18} **Both aim to experience union with “God,” Brahman, or universal **consciousness. If all these things are so, it seems increasingly apparent that hatha yoga may ultimately involve its practitioners in much more than physical exercise. Although it may not be obvious at first, the ultimate goal of hatha is the same as every other form of yoga: union of the self with an impersonal, universal consciousness.
We must remember that** the Bible never exhorts Christians to seek such an experience. If anything, it warns us of the potential dangers in doing so**.
And so the strands are connected toward the same goal (root).
 
Continued:
Swami Prabhavananda warns of the potentially dangerous physical effects that might result from yoga breathing exercises: “Unless properly done, there is a good chance of injuring the brain. And those who practice such breathing without proper supervision can suffer a disease which no known science or doctor can cure.”{19} In addition, many yogis warn that yoga practice can endanger one’s sanity. In describing the awakening of “kundalini” (coiled serpent power) Gopi Krishna records his own experience as follows: "It was variable for many years, painful, obsessive…I have passed through almost all the stages of…mediumistic, psychotic, and other types of mind; for some time I was hovering between sanity and insanity."{20}
Where this paragraph reads: “…can suffer a disease which no known science or doctor can cure…” I have to say that this might be the case unless of course we pray about it to our Christian understanding of who our Maker IS But who would want to risk such things? Or risk the lives of other people, for that matter, by promoting Yoga as safe for other Christians to practice?
Yoga scholar Hans Rieker declares, "Kundalini [is] the mainstay of all yoga practices.
etc…etc…etc…I’ll continue to post the rest tomorrow. :yawn: To point out the root and its issues with in-depth sources.
 
You are very welcome on the thread but I’d prefer it if we kept it cool as temperatures can run high sometimes :coolinoff: and I have no way of knowing when or not you’ve done your exercise

I do appreciate the apology. Thank you. 😉
You are welcome. I crossed the line.

I didn’t scoff at the Pleiadian why should I offend you, my Catholic brother?
 
Mortal sin requires INTENT and complete knowledge that the act is a sin. Just a reminder.

Sorry to say it, but both sides of this argument contain merit. Stretches that happen to come from Yoga save countless athletes from serious injury. That is just a fact. I doubt these young people are thinking about mandalas while doing it. I used to do it before karate classes. Should the fact that this came from Eastern religions be a source of concern? I believe there might be, but I just don’t know.

I think the Pope has cast further shadow over the question, meaning there certainly was no endorsement of yoga. He must know that it is used in the West for conditioning muscles to prevent injury, maintain and improve circulation and tone. maybe that is all that kept him from an all out condemnation, who knows?

My suggestion would be that those who have demonstrable need to use this practice, do so under the guidance of a spiritual adviser, or at least raise the issue during prayer / rosary intention. At the very first sign of trouble, undue attachment or a sprain:D stop.
 
You are welcome. I crossed the line.

I didn’t scoff at the Pleiadian why should I offend you, my Catholic brother?
I wasn’t offended! We were just joking about the Pleidian website!

It is hard for some when others come along and argue against whatever it is that those into something are already engaged in fully, it can seem very personal for those involved, in this case for those doing Yoga, and can furthermore seem like attacks are being waged on their own integrity, and it is understandable that feelings might run high now and then. Really, not-to-worry! I get a bit diehard too :okpeople: and often have to review my (name removed by moderator)ut! 👍

🙂
 
Mortal sin requires INTENT and complete knowledge that the act is a sin. Just a reminder.

Sorry to say it, but both sides of this argument contain merit. Stretches that happen to come from Yoga save countless athletes from serious injury. That is just a fact. I doubt these young people are thinking about mandalas while doing it. I used to do it before karate classes. Should the fact that this came from Eastern religions be a source of concern? I believe there might be, but I just don’t know.

I think the Pope has cast further shadow over the question, meaning there certainly was no endorsement of yoga. He must know that it is used in the West for conditioning muscles to prevent injury, maintain and improve circulation and tone. maybe that is all that kept him from an all out condemnation, who knows?

My suggestion would be that those who have demonstrable need to use this practice, do so under the guidance of a spiritual adviser, or at least raise the issue during prayer / rosary intention. At the very first sign of trouble, undue attachment or a sprain:D stop.
Hi. Welcome. This is a very sensible and thoughtful post, for both sides, IMO. Thank you!

Distractions seem to be an issue for Christians when going to prayer, and I agree with what you say here, that the Rosary is really an immediate port of call, a priority, and is an indispensable aid which we pray to take our concerns straight to the heart of our Creator, by putting all into the caring hands of our Creator’s Holy Mother; in addition, having to focus on the holy mysteries, if these are prayed during, and also having to finger the beads via physical action, might keep the mind on the prayer. Also, I think that if someone was to go to our Creator, especially by praying the Rosary, and take the problem of distraction directly to His Heart, then I just can’t see Him not helping, as being able to sit quietly in prayer is so very important for everyone. In the Bible, it says about the need to keep knocking, and the door will be answered. I can’t help feeling that so many people have suffered in the past with horrific ailments, and prayed the Rosary, and were given help or felt accompanied through their pain. Your advice in the order of doing things does set a very positive path. I also think your suggestion of a spiritual director is useful and makes a lot of sense.
 
I think the Pope has cast further shadow over the question, meaning there certainly was no endorsement of yoga.
What shadow? It seems to me that friardchips has taken the statement outrageously out of context. Pope Francis said, "“You can take a million catechetical courses, a million courses in spirituality, a million courses in yoga, Zen and all these things. But all of this will never be able to give you.freedom.” So did he cast a shadow over catechesis? This makes no sense.
He must know that it is used in the West for conditioning muscles to prevent injury, maintain and improve circulation and tone. maybe that is all that kept him from an all out condemnation, who knows?
And what kept him from an all-out condemnation of catechesis?🤷

Edwin
 
It is to do with strands of truth and mistruth. Something has to be incorrect if one strand contradicts another - either the root, or the teaching of the root, or the teaching of the strands of the root, or the strands and the root.
Well, you haven’t shown that yoga actually has one “root.” A linguistic root proves nothing of the sort. Yoga seems to be a set of practices that was used by several incompatible Indian philosophies.

But more to the point, your options allow for the possibility that left-handed tantrism is simply a deviant form of Hinduism. So you need to stop using left-handed tantrism to condemn all of yoga. It just won’t fly.
Rethink my approach of sound reasoning?!! That again, does not make any logical sense!
I have just showed above how unsound your reasoning about “roots” is. And your blatant misinterpretation of Pope Francis has been pointed out several times. Pope Francis mentioned yoga in the same context as catechesis. Yet you keep speaking as if he was condemning the practice of yoga. Logically, this would imply that he was also condemning catechesis, which is absurd.

You have not demonstrated sound reasoning on this thread, only a blind determination to vilify the practice of yoga.

Edwin
 
Well, you haven’t shown that yoga actually has one “root.” A linguistic root proves nothing of the sort. Yoga seems to be a set of practices that was used by several incompatible Indian philosophies.

But more to the point, your options allow for the possibility that left-handed tantrism is simply a deviant form of Hinduism. So you need to stop using left-handed tantrism to condemn all of yoga. It just won’t fly.

I have just showed above how unsound your reasoning about “roots” is. And your blatant misinterpretation of Pope Francis has been pointed out several times. Pope Francis mentioned yoga in the same context as catechesis. Yet you keep speaking as if he was condemning the practice of yoga. Logically, this would imply that he was also condemning catechesis, which is absurd.

You have not demonstrated sound reasoning on this thread, only a blind determination to vilify the practice of yoga.

Edwin
I don’t know what is more confusing. Strands that lead to several roots or strands that lead to nothing - no root.

In comparison, Christians know what our authority is, in line with who, and what we have been given for our use, and why.

The Pope Francis remark, what he might have meant or not meant by his words, has already been discussed several times throughout this thread. If you want to read again everything on this then the pages are there to view.

The point is that the Bible is not just philosophy, so when you talk of these Yoga philosophies as being solid grounds for practicing, then not only are you not acknowledging that you don’t know what the root is, you are ignoring that without solid root and authority, Yoga is an ‘unknown’ quantity, and so unsafe ground for the Christian to tread; Christianity is not based on human thinking or philosophy, or many philosophies. But unfathomably more. Now you might wish to practice Yoga but to suggest it is safe for others to practice I think is not very responsible, if that is what you are indeed doing (?) Because earlier you suggested that for me to think it unwise could only be because you believe I am not “adventurous”!

Our salvation is a free gift, not gained by some human endeavour. As a priest said today: “The Eternal One does not love us because of how good we are, but because He IS Good.” If we look at the posts by professors of Yoga which I posted earlier, they lucidly explain how Yoga is different in every aspect to Christianity, in particular, the point about having to achieve a break from our selfishness via some considerable effort on our part, on the part of self (it actually sounds very much contradictory); ‘union’ with the Yoga destination, is ‘achieved’ through personal effort. Again, I reiterate, that salvation in the Christian sense is a free gift not through any external practice which brings it into being, and Christian prayer is not about transforming one’s mind state, as it is not us who orders Him to come to us, so we don’t need to alter our minds to be prepared, but instead we can just sit quietly in His presence as the famous Psalm reads: “Be still and know that I…”. And He speaks to our hearts.

The other point is that Yoga was before Christianity, and so maybe people were just trying to reach their idea of who the Creator is, and in some religions they still practice Yoga, and if they live with compassion then this indicates the presence of our Creator with them in some aspect of their worship, but the Christian doesn’t need Yoga, because after a moment in history born to us, was our Saviour. He is the whole Truth! We don’t need to search in vain for ‘possibly’ partially true cosmic mysteries or human-made theories leading to self-awareness, we don’t fantastical stories of gods and goddesses which represent characters of some greater ‘impersonal’ god, we don’t need alternate mind states to achieve perfection/ The Christian finds who he is not by looking at himself but at His Saviour, who taught us The prayer. And other prayers are based on Bible theology written by Christian saints and holy men and women, and have also been revealed through mystical events. The Christian acknowledges our sinfulness and seeks forgiveness. But the Christian believes that despite our saying “sorry”, our Creator called us first! We have what we need: Mercy.

The last thing is about our Holy Father. As Roman Catholics, we understand and believe that St. Peter was given the keys of the kingdom and these have been passed on down the line, and now our current Pope is anointed as our spiritual Holy Father. So when the Pope decrees something or makes a pronouncement, I can understand why I am to listen to him, and sometimes this can be a challenge for people, because sometimes people don’t want to be nudged, or challenged. If he says that spiritual answers cannot be reached by a certain means then I understand that he has a reason for saying this and so I must question my knowledge or simply be obedient and get on with something else.
 
Quick, someone forward these articles to Fr. Amorth (the exorcist who doesn’t like yoga) and that priest from the article in the first post of this thread, so they can turn their attention elsewhere! "Nothing potentially evil going on here, folks, just some stretching and conditioning. Scandinavian and Danish Gymnastics: perfectly safe for body and soul. "
 
Quick, someone forward these articles to Fr. Amorth (the exorcist who doesn’t like yoga) and that priest from the article in the first post of this thread, so they can turn their attention elsewhere! "Nothing potentially evil going on here, folks, just some stretching and conditioning. Scandinavian and Danish Gymnastics: perfectly safe for body and soul. "
Think I’ll trust the objective Catholic experts at the top of their field as opposed to some random heavily biased gymnasts and bloggers! 😛 - probably all intrepid Yoga explorers!

You two make me laugh (not in a bad way!) 😃
 
I think we’ve pretty much gone over all this stuff a hundred-fold so I’m taking a long vacation, and unless there is an update extravaganza on the matter…

Live long and prosper!

:tiphat:
 
Think I’ll trust the objective Catholic experts at the top of their field as opposed to some random heavily biased gymnasts and bloggers! 😛 - probably all intrepid Yoga explorers!

You two make me laugh (not in a bad way!) 😃
It seems to turn out that your “experts” are as misinformed as anyone else on yoga.
“Heavily biased gymnasts”? Yes, they were biased to see yoga as uniquely spiritual and Eastern. His objective research which he actually stumbled into, proved that the stretches’ roots where neither spiritual nor Eastern, but “Yoga” adopted them.

BTW: If your experts are Catholic, they certainly are not objective.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top