You can't have it both ways.

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There are several steps to proper hermeneutics:
  • Historical: The historical context must be understood.
  • Grammatical: What do the words mean in the original languages?
  • Rhetorical: What expressions/literary devices are being used?
  • Canonical: Where does the passage fit in the chapter, how does the chapter fit in its section, how does the section fit in the book, how does the book fit in the cannon?
  • Liturgical: How is the passage used in the Liturgy? Where does it fit in the liturgical year? Waht liturgical seasons ans specific feasts are associated with the passage?
  • Magisterial: How has the Chuch interpreted the passage/ Are there any interpretations inconsistent with Magisterial teaching?
Exegesis is actually a long drawn out and difficult process, which must be done meticulously and prayerfully.
 
Dokimas said:
The priesthood didn’t get set up until the Commandments and the Tabernacle was given. Til then there was no need for the priest, was there?
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Are you familiar with Melchizedek? He was a priest in Genesis.
 
Dokimas said:
The priesthood didn’t get set up until the Commandments and the Tabernacle was given. Til then there was no need for the priest, was there?
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Adam was a priest. As was Cain. And Abel. And Noah. And Abraham. The Priesthood under Moses was not originally restricted to the Levites, but Israel was a “kingdom of priests and a holy nation” (Exodus 19:6).
 
JonNC said:
PR,
No, it doesn’t.
The Epitome of the Formula of Concord

Properly understood, sola scriptura is used to protect the true faith from "personal interpretation.

Martin Chemnitz

Jon
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If the Bible is the sole rule of faith:
-why are there so many different understandings of what it says?
-why doesn’t the Bible tell us it’s the sole rule of faith? That seems like quite an important thing to leave out.

Sola Scriptura advocates are not holding Scripture up as the final authority–rather, it is their own personal understanding that usurps Scripture. They become their own magisterium.
 
JonNC said:
Jimmy,
I’ve reviewed this, wondering if there was something I disagreed with. And even though we don’t use the language, “sole and divinity”, there’s not.

Jon
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Jon,
You and I agree on far much more than we disagree. 👍
 
Dokimas said:
Sure; and while I’m at it, the NT because the letters were written by those who knew Jesus (except maybe Luke but he was a good historian and new those who knew Jesus).
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You are adding to Scripture, Doki. It never says that this is what the Bereans read.

You know that there was no NT when St. Paul was around. It was all OT plus Oral Tradition.
 
StTommyMore said:
Adam was a priest. As was Cain. And Abel. And Noah. And Abraham. The Priesthood under Moses was not originally restricted to the Levites, but Israel was a “kingdom of priests and a holy nation” (Exodus 19:6).
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Interesting. Then all Christians are priests.

Re 1:6 and has made us kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.
 
PRmerger said:
You are adding to Scripture, Doki. It never says that this is what the Bereans read.

You know that there was no NT when St. Paul was around. It was all OT plus Oral Tradition.
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I didn’t add to the Bible. I answered your question.

I know you know the NT wasn’t formally put together at the time of the Bereans, however, they are good examples for us who now have the NT, wouldn’t you say?
 
Dokimas said:
Interesting. Then all Christians are priests.

Re 1:6 and has made us kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.
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You got it, Doki! We are all part of the Royal Priesthood.

Now, the ministerial priesthood was established by Jesus (and it gave you your Bible, BTW, so you ought to have some respect for the Catholic priesthood!).
 
Dokimas said:
I didn’t add to the Bible. I answered your question.

I know you know the NT wasn’t formally put together at the time of the Bereans, however, they are good examples for us who now have the NT, wouldn’t you say?
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The Bereans searched the OT. That much is plain.

As for good examples, yes, indeed they are!
 
PRmerger said:
You got it, Doki! We are all part of the Royal Priesthood.

Now, the ministerial priesthood was established by Jesus (and it gave you your Bible, BTW, so you ought to have some respect for the Catholic priesthood!).
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There’s a difference between respecting and blindly following or being under their authority.

You ALWAYS seem to leave out the Holy Spirit so you can elivate the place of the CC in the cannon of the Bible.

Let me clarify: just about, if not, every time you tell me about how important the CC is to bring to me the Bible which is many times over the many months.
 
Dokimas said:
There’s a difference between respecting and blindly following or being under their authority.
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Can you be generous with me here, Dokimas. (You’ve asked me not to call you a Protestant, and I’ve respected that. In fact, since your post a while ago I try to use the term Non-Catholic Christian for all NCCs that I dialogue with, in respect to your wishes.)

So I am asking that you please refrain from using the phrase “blindly following” with regard to Catholics.
You ALWAYS seem to leave out the Holy Spirit so you can elivate the place of the CC in the cannon of the Bible.
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You don’t mention the HS either, when you say “Paul wrote _____” or “Moses said ______” 🤷
Let me clarify: just about, if not, every time you tell me about how important the CC is to bring to me the Bible which is many times over the many months.
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Well, that’s 'cause we’ve been friends for a while now and chat often. 👍
 
PRmerger said:
Can you be generous with me here, Dokimas. (You’ve asked me not to call you a Protestant, and I’ve respected that. In fact, since your post a while ago I try to use the term Non-Catholic Christian for all NCCs that I dialogue with, in respect to your wishes.)

So I am asking that you please refrain from using the phrase “blindly following” with regard to Catholics.
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Sorry that you misunderstood me.
You don’t mention the HS either, when you say “Paul wrote _____” or “Moses said ______” 🤷
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If I believe the Bible is inspired by God, and you know I believe this, then it goes without saying that anything in the Bible is inspired by the Holy Spirit. I’m sure God inspired the cannon too, but as often as you tell me and others about the importance of the CC getting me the Bible seems quite different. My mentioning Paul and Moses isn’t because I hold them perfect in any way. You hold the CC perfect in it’s teaching, don’t you? Can you see the difference yet?
Well, that’s 'cause we’ve been friends for a while now and chat often. 👍
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Do you think I have a bad memory to have to keep telling me what you believe?
 
Dokimas said:
Interesting. Then all Christians are priests.

Re 1:6 and has made us kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.
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Ah yes, but hte ministerial priesthood is distinct from the universal priesthood. The universal priesthood participates in the priestly ministry of Christ during the Liturgy of the Eucharist. However the ministry of the Church heirarchy is the fullness of this ministry.
 
StTommyMore said:
Ah yes, but hte ministerial priesthood is distinct from the universal priesthood. The universal priesthood participates in the priestly ministry of Christ during the Liturgy of the Eucharist. However the ministry of the Church heirarchy is the fullness of this ministry.
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I ask for verses and you gave me Moses. That lead me to all true Christians. I’m still hoping for verses about priests as a ministry.
 
=PRmerger;7090642]If the Bible is the sole rule of faith:
-why are there so many different understandings of what it says?
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Human sin, of course, not only regarding the different interpretations amongst Christian groups generally referred to as Portestant, but also amongst those who claim scripture and tradition.
-why doesn’t the Bible tell us it’s the sole rule of faith? That seems like quite an important thing to leave out.
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Because it is a post-apostolic era practice. Scripture doesn’t mention a Magisterium, either.
Sola Scriptura advocates are not holding Scripture up as the final authority–rather, it is their own personal understanding that usurps Scripture. They become their own magisterium.
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No doubt, some who claim to be sola scripturists do. I don’t, and Lutherans are not supposed to.

Jon
 
Dokimas said:
I ask for verses and you gave me Moses. That lead me to all true Christians. I’m still hoping for verses about priests as a ministry.
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Unfortunately, the Scriptures are not comprehensive. The ministry of the Elders developed into the modern priesthood.
 
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