E
elvisman
Guest
Hey - can you show me where it says that in Scripture - I’m curious.
- Status
S
Soutane
Guest
I trust you mean mediator.The Saints,Mary,me and you are all petitioners or intercessors.There is only ONE mediator,your lord and mine Jesus Christ.Yes I do, but what does that have to do with who the actual intercessor is? My Christian brothers and sisters, only pray to God for intersession…hope you see the major difference there.
B
brkn1
Guest
You blaspheme the Holy Spirit to make a false point by your words.
B
brkn1
Guest
You are all excited, since your “truth” can’t hold up. Hence the colorized kiddy print.
Jesus used the word “water”, but He did not say water baptism as you believe and assume according to the wisdom and prudence of the RCC. It could not mean water baptism, since Nicodemas was rebuked by Jesus for not knowing it. There was no such thing as water baptism as you understand it in the OT. How could Nicodemas know what that doctrine was, when it was never taught in the OT?
B
brkn1
Guest
Hey - can you show me where in Scripture water baptism is a doctrine of the Old Testament? You can’t.
B
brkn1
Guest
I asked you if a born again person gets “unborn again”, if they commit a “mortal” sin. You are not answering the question.
W
Walden
Guest
No, they don’t get “unborn again”.
“Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can see the kingdom of God without being born from above”. Nicodemus said to him, “How can a person once grown old be born again? Surely he cannot reenter his mother’s womb and be born again, can he?”. Jesus answered, “Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit.” (John 3:3-5)
Just from the text, I see the words “water” and “Spirit”. Twist it all you want, but Jesus says “water and Spirit”. Not just “Spirit”, “water and Spirit”. One more time, “WATER AND SPIRIT”.
Now, to answer your question, if someone commits a deadly (mortal) sin, their baptism is not erased. From the passage above you can see that Jesus said “no one can enter the Kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit.” He does not say that’s it, you’re good to go from now on.
J
jmcrae
Guest
I work with some priests from India who are in the line of succession of St. Thomas; they are extremely orthodox in their teaching and in how they say Mass - there is no significant difference between how they say Mass, and any good, orthodox priest of European/Latin descent.
This is Proof that the Holy Spirit has preserved both the Apostolic Succession and, by means of it, the Holy Tradition.
J
jmcrae
Guest
The word “baptism” means to be covered in water. The term “water baptism” is redundant, because it means “water being covered in water”.
Jesus was not rebuking him for not understanding the doctrine of Baptism; he was rebuking him for not knowing/understanding the prophecies about the coming of the Holy Spirit. He was explaining to him that it is in baptism that Christians receive the Holy Spirit, and then He went on to describe the action of the Holy Spirit in those persons, and it was then that Nicodemus said, “How can these things be?” and Jesus responds to him, “Are you a teacher of Israel; and yet you do not understand these things?” About the Holy Spirit; not about the process of baptism.
B
brkn1
Guest
Both Nicodemas and Jesus use the words “these things”, so your argument that they were speaking only about the Holy Spirit does not hold water.
B
brkn1
Guest
“Water”, “washing”, and “cleansing” are often used in Scripture to speak about a spiritual doing of God.
An example would be (Isaiah 44:3) “For I will pour water upon him that is thirsty, and floods upon the dry ground: I will POUR MY SPIRIT upon thy seed, and My blessing upon thy offspring:”
You will not reduce that act to a physical pouring of water, unless you missed the point of it.
J
jmcrae
Guest
The word “baptism” is not used in those particular passages.
Again, the word “baptism” refers to the pouring of water. The Sacrament of Baptism is the pouring of water with the words, “I baptize you in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,” (see Matthew 28:16-20) which washes away our sins and initiates us into Christ’s Church.
P
pete_29
Guest
"You are Peter (rock), and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. " It’s absolutely clear that Jesus made Peter the Rock upon which He built his Earthly Church. This is confirmed when Jesus told Peter to tend and feed His sheep, meaning, as a faithful servant, Peter was to watch over and take care of Jesus sheep until his return.
“This is My Body” and “this is My Blood” is found in three of the Gospels. This indicates how important it is that Jesus gave us his Body and Blood to strengthen us. Note that Jesus said “this IS My body” and “this IS my Blood”, not this is a symbol of My Body, and this is a symbol of My Blood. In John, Jesus clearly states that His Body and Blood are real food and drink.This is confirmed by the disciples on the road to Emmaus, who did not recognize Jesus until they received His Body. Through the Real Presence in the Body and Blood of the Eucharist, we come to physically recognize Jesus as our Lord and Savior.
“This is My Body” and “this is My Blood” is found in three of the Gospels. This indicates how important it is that Jesus gave us his Body and Blood to strengthen us. Note that Jesus said “this IS My body” and “this IS my Blood”, not this is a symbol of My Body, and this is a symbol of My Blood. In John, Jesus clearly states that His Body and Blood are real food and drink.This is confirmed by the disciples on the road to Emmaus, who did not recognize Jesus until they received His Body. Through the Real Presence in the Body and Blood of the Eucharist, we come to physically recognize Jesus as our Lord and Savior.
N
NFPgirl
Guest
I’ve been reading this thread over the past couple of days and I have only one thing to add to it:
Let’s all please be a bit more mature and lose the name-calling and accusations. It is not helpful, polite, or even good for your particular position on this subject to call someone a name, criticize the way they write their post, or tell them that they’ve committed some kind of sin because of their words.
I am often amazed at the lack of charity in some of these posts. It is as if some people think if they brow beat those who don’t agree with them or attack their person they’ll somehow cause that person to “see the light” and agree with their position. Reprimanding someone out of “love” or “concern for their soul” is also wholly inappropriate.
The bottom line is this: state what you believe, provide proofs for what you believe if you like, answer others’ questions of you if you want, but BE NICE!
Remember these Scriptures before you hit “Submit Reply” and post your reply:
“All things therefore whatsoever you would that men should do to you, do you also to them. For this is the law and the prophets.” - Matthew 7:12
“Charity is patient, is kind: charity envieth not, dealeth not perversely; is not puffed up; is not ambitious, seeketh not her own, is not provoked to anger, thinketh no evil; rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth with the truth; beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.” – 1 Corinthians 13:4-7
"Dearly beloved, let us love one another, for charity is of God. And every one that loveth, is born of God, and knoweth God. He that loveth not, knoweth not God: for God is charity. " – 1 John 4:7-8
Just a gentle reminder to take the high road when arguing a point. We are all brothers and sisters in Christ, regardless of our affiliation or non-affiliation with a particular church. We should love each other as such.
God bless and peace be with all of you!
Pax,
NFPgirl:hug3:
Let’s all please be a bit more mature and lose the name-calling and accusations. It is not helpful, polite, or even good for your particular position on this subject to call someone a name, criticize the way they write their post, or tell them that they’ve committed some kind of sin because of their words.
I am often amazed at the lack of charity in some of these posts. It is as if some people think if they brow beat those who don’t agree with them or attack their person they’ll somehow cause that person to “see the light” and agree with their position. Reprimanding someone out of “love” or “concern for their soul” is also wholly inappropriate.
The bottom line is this: state what you believe, provide proofs for what you believe if you like, answer others’ questions of you if you want, but BE NICE!
Remember these Scriptures before you hit “Submit Reply” and post your reply:
“All things therefore whatsoever you would that men should do to you, do you also to them. For this is the law and the prophets.” - Matthew 7:12
“Charity is patient, is kind: charity envieth not, dealeth not perversely; is not puffed up; is not ambitious, seeketh not her own, is not provoked to anger, thinketh no evil; rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth with the truth; beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.” – 1 Corinthians 13:4-7
"Dearly beloved, let us love one another, for charity is of God. And every one that loveth, is born of God, and knoweth God. He that loveth not, knoweth not God: for God is charity. " – 1 John 4:7-8
Just a gentle reminder to take the high road when arguing a point. We are all brothers and sisters in Christ, regardless of our affiliation or non-affiliation with a particular church. We should love each other as such.
God bless and peace be with all of you!
Pax,
NFPgirl:hug3:
B
brkn1
Guest
You have reduced regeneration to a physical act of pouring water over even a child that has no idea what is going on.
The Holy Spirit is the One doing the baptism of the Spirit, not a man. It is the sovereign act of the Holy Spirit.
Physical water baptism follows, but that water baptism could not be what causes regeneration. The saints of the OT would not be saved if that were the case. The thief on the cross that got saved is further proof that regeneration is not a physical, but rather a spiritual baptism. That event was put there on purpose by God to demonstrate the reality of only spiritual regeneration by the Holy Spirit being the true baptism.
B
brkn1
Guest
The Holy Spirit is the One that brings you to recognize Jesus as Lord and Savior. That is why Jesus sent Him to us.
P
pete_29
Guest
Well, that’s it, I can do nothing more for you.
May God’s Peace be with you.
B
brkn1
Guest
Well, thanks for trying anyway.Well, that’s it, I can do nothing more for you.
N
NonCatholic
Guest
Great reminder! I agree with everything except the last paragraph, but your point is very good…we need to treat each other with a measure of respect.
Matthew 7:13-14
E
elvisman
Guest
Well, that’s just immature, so I’ll leave that comment alone.
*Apparently, you’re c*olor-phobic.
**First of all, Nicodemus wasn’t “rebuked” be Jesus. Jesus was pointing sometyhing out to him that he should have been familiar with. This is annoying to you because, as a typical anti-Catholic, you’re also not familiar with this passage.
Ezekiel 36:25-36 prophesied water baptism:
**"I will sprinkle clean water upon you to cleanse you from all your impurities, and from all your idols I will cleanse you. **
I will give you a new heart and place a new spirit within you, taking from your bodies your stony hearts and giving you natural hearts."
- Status