Young Catholics Causing Rebirth of Tridentine Mass

  • Thread starter Thread starter yankeesouth
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
stpurl said:
And the thing is, if something IS superior, again, it doesn’t mean that the other thing isn’t perfectly valid or helpful or good.
Click to expand...
And we’ve all said that. Well, many of us have said that. I’ve said that, multiple times. Neither is superior to the other. Both are just fine.

As I said, it’s when people get out of shape and say the OF is wrong or the EF is just outdated that others start responding.
 
Last edited:
Or they bring up Trent to insinuate the OF Mass is invalid, or they say Vatican II was a “pastoral” council and can be disregarded, or they accuse the Catechism of teaching heresy, ect, ect, ect……
 
But DeMontford, Hmm, just one side here. . .how about how the EF should be 'shut down permanently", or the EF people want to ‘force it down our throats" or “it was never as reverent as they say, 15 minute Masses”, “Nobody pays attention, they just say rosaries”, "they’re all so holier-than-thou’, “they want to bring back the Middle Ages”, blah blah. And my favorite, that “it was only brought back to get the SPPX back out of schism” and “it’s just a talking point, hardly anybody goes anyway and just look how few places there are, if it was really that important there should be a lot more people, but there aren’t.”
 
Last edited:
Hmm, every one of my posts saying “neither is superior”, “both are licit”…

I don’t attend an EF church because I choose not to and because I live far closer to an OF as the military archdiocese is OF. But I’m intelligent enough to know it’s not inferior nor superior to the OF.

I don’t take a side because there isn’t one for me to take. To be honest, I don’t care who likes what and who attends what, but I do care when the slagging starts. I happened to comment on someone slagging the OF because that’s what I commented on.
 
I doubt they would have. I can only think of one cousin I have who’s still living who would’ve worn a veil as she was in Catholic school prior to V2, so I doubt any of the rest of them would’ve known what the word even meant.

They’re all gone now, so I wouldn’t know for sure. I always heard them say “veil”.
 
Last edited:
Well, there’s something really old country about them. Like being at Mass in Florence, in 1300… I remember like it was yesterday…
 
Last edited:
That’s where I saw Beatrice. But Dante saw her first. I was going to write this, too, but he wrote it first. !!! Dante!

E pensando di lei
Mi sopragiunse uno soave sonno

Ego dominus tuus
Vide cor tuum
E d’esto core ardendo
Cor tuum
(Chorus: Lei paventosa)
Umilmente pascea.
Appreso gir lo ne vedea piangendo.

La letizia si convertia
In amarissimo pianto

Io sono in pace
Cor meum
Io sono in pace
Vide cor meum

 
Last edited:
Novel or “retro-chic?” I don’t think so. I attend the Extraordinary Form because the Catholic Church is the only divinely instituted organization in existence able to transmit grace into the world. That seems to be happening less and less these past 50 years. When one asks themselves why and also why fewer and fewer Catholics today are practicing their faith they may come to understand why those of us younger Catholic began attending the EF; we can see that things in general are not so good today and simply asked ourself “what’s missing?” There was a MAJOR cultural shift in the 1960s and I’m afraid the actions of some Churchmen didn’t help matters at such a confusing time. When the clear and unchanging teaching of the Church was absolutely needed the most, some decided instead it was time to begin to experiment with the liturgy our ancestors had worshiped in more or less since the time of St. Gregory the Great 1400 years earlier. I believe it wasn’t until the Missal changes in 2011 that much of the experimentation (liturgically) was finally put to rest, at least legally if totally not in practice. I’ve still heard some priests say crazy things since that time but fortunately those sorts seem to be becoming fewer and far between (or I just avoid where I know they are… sadly there are still souls being guided by such men).
 
Last edited:
While beauty is subjective, I somehow doubt more people would claim the typical guitar and piano Mass that almost anyone with a morsel of musical ability could do is on par beautifully with a polyphonic and propers chanted Mass by a well trained choir and schola. If so, such claims have likely normalized the mediocrity we see in music in general today since all Western music seems to have roots in the music of the Church. The Mass has historically been seen as a representation of what might be heard in heaven; a little piece of heaven on earth. What do you think would more likely be heard in heaven? The folksy guitar Masses might have been attractive for a time in the 1960s and 70s but I honestly believe they are a little musty for most younger people nowadays whereas the music of the Church is simply timeless. I’m someone who happens to enjoy music like Crosby, Stills, Nash, and Young. Most people my age don’t care for such music. I certainly wouldn’t claim it more beautiful than the music of Mozart or Beethoven who themselves composed Masses.
 
stpurl said:
You really think the article was saying what you claim about 'overly praising one"? See, I don’t think that’s the case.
Click to expand...
The ordinary form of the Mass is called ordinary because that is what majority of Catholics practice, rather than a small niche sub section of the church. The word catholic means universal and this is strongly believed by Catholics that the Mass should be available to all and not just the educated. The vernacular is used so that the Gospel message can be heard and understood to the hearts of believers without any hindrance or artificial human barriers and rules which cause obstacles for believers to understand what is going on and therefore appreciate the importance of the Mass. it is a source of unity rather than divisiveness.

I could go on if you like.
 
Last edited:
Previous generations of Catholics seemed better educated because they worshiped in what is now known as the Extraordinary Form and therefore had at least a rudimentary foundation in Latin if they paid attention. That in time leads to a much easier comprehension of the Romance languages and also opens up a much wider possibility of words in mind for use in English, a language which borrows many words from Latin and other Latin derived languages. If anything one is educated by the Mass; one doesn’t attend a particular Mass because they are educated. On top of that there is nothing more universal than attending the same Mass whether one is at home, Kazakhstan, or Japan. Furthermore we are less unified than ever. I’ve never once attended a Mass where the Epistle (or the “First Reading” as it is now sometimes referred) and Gospel weren’t recited in the vernacular.
 
DignumEtJustum said:
Previous generations of Catholics seemed better educated because they worshiped in what is now known as the Extraordinary Form and therefore had at least a rudimentary foundation in Latin if they paid attention.
Click to expand...
Looks like your definition of universal means “European”.
Gospel tells us to preach to all nations not just European nations.
Going to Mass in chinese are still sometimes refer now as “looking at Mass”. A vestige of the pre Vatican ii era where people did not understand what’s going on and most just prayed the rosary.
Also when I said Gospel message I didn’t mean Gospel. The whole mass embodies the Gospel message. How can people understand the importance of the Eucharist when they don’t even understand what is going on?
Do we still want chinese or non European people to regard going to Mass as just looking at Mass?
 
Last edited:
Every Christmas Eve growing up my grandfather attended the Midnight Mass at the local Chinese parish; the same Mass he would have attended at his usual parish. Quite universal if you ask me. Are you telling me the sacred mysteries are really more understood in English than in Latin? Many of the words used in the vernacular Canon of the Mass are no-more used in everyday conversation than the words used in the Latin Canon. In either case, the Eucharist must be explained by good priests in their sermons along with every other tenement of the faith or none of it will be understood. It’s been stated that the majority communication is unspoken; if this is the case there should be little question to the understanding of the Eucharist in the Extraordinary Form of the Mass.
 
Last edited:
That’s fantastic. Europe provided the world with the most beautiful art, architecture, music, culture, etc. God blessed the Church with Europe along with Europe’s influence on the west and it’s not something anyone should be ashamed of. Beyond that English is no doubt becoming the universal language worldwide. One of any background should be interested in all these languages in order to communicate better with everyone regardless of where they are from. There are a couple dozen Rites of the Mass in the Catholic Church. Which one is prevailing in China or wherever else you have in mind I have no idea but the loss of the Mass as it was known for 1400 years in the Roman Catholic Church is certainly not something that’s gone unnoticed in the Church nor the world at large.
 
DignumEtJustum said:
While beauty is subjective, I somehow doubt more people would claim the typical guitar and piano Mass that almost anyone with a morsel of musical ability could do is on par beautifully with a polyphonic and propers chanted Mass by a well trained choir and schola.
Click to expand...
You make my point well. Many people probably do claim they prefer the beauty of the music of the Tridentine Mass compared to the OF, but it leaves the question people who prefer either forms of the Mass prefer one form of the Mass over the other over the entertainment value instead of focusing on the glory of the Holy Sacrifice…The Eucharist, not the music, is the source and summit of our faith.

Pax et bonum!
 
DignumEtJustum said:
Europe provided the world with the most beautiful art, architecture, music, culture, etc. God blessed the Church with Europe along with Europe’s influence on the west and it’s not something anyone should be ashamed of. Beyond that English is no doubt becoming the universal language worldwide.
Click to expand...
I agree with this absolutely.
But you’re still missing the point. Nevermind.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top