Young Earth Creationists

[SuperLuigi]

At one point I was under the impression that Catholics had some freedom in this realm to believe in either evolution or creationism, which in my mind equated to a difference between uniformitarianism and special creation, where the crux of the matter was the age of the earth.

We do, but it’s important to have justifiable arguments to maintain credibility.

 

[ChunkMonk]

2/3 of those evidences presuppose the conclusion and the other one is yet more personal interpretation presented as fact.

I’m not entirely sold on Young Earth, but the evolutionist arguments being put forward here are weak-sauce.

 

[LittleFlower]

2/3 of those evidences presuppose the conclusion and the other one is yet more personal interpretation presented as fact.

Could you please be more specific, which ones are presuppose and which one is personal interpretation?

 

[CampionTheChampion]

What models are you referring to, exactly? And yes, the scientific

community in America is fully committed to Darwinism, to the extent that

teachers and professors are fired for simply showing some of the flaws in

Darwinism. You might be surprised to learn that in other countries,

Darwinism does not hold sway.

Can I ask you a very simple question? Which rocks of our planet have been

dated to 4.5 billion years, and what method was used?

You’re right. Those sneaky American seculars have conspired to make fake science. The scientific consensus is clearly a hoax.

 

[Zaccheus]

That is perhaps because most Catholics only seem to pay lip service to Thomas Aquinas. I wonder how many could have used the time they spent studying evolution to instead study Thomas Aquinas. I mean, do you actually understand Thomas Aquinas’ five ways, specifically the argument from contingency?

Regardless, I will clarify what I meant.

An empirical judgment is related to human experience, habits, etc.

As for intellectual judgements, there are three types in relation to quiddity:

Necessary- which cannot be predicated with non-existence.

Impossible- which cannot be predicated with existence.

Possible- which can be predicated with either existence or non-existence.

This is basic philosophy. You claimed that Young Earth Creationism goes against reason i.e. is an intellectual impossibility. I merely stated that is incorrect, because even though you may believe the universe began 13 billion years ago, to assert that it is impossible for God to have instead created the world 6,000+ years ago is completely unsubstantiated.

Nothing is impossible with God. Btu we can’t prove that something is true merely by asserting, however loudly, that God could have done it that way.
God could have created me a woman. Yet He did create me a man. You can’t create real doubt over what sex I am by just saying “God could have made you a woman. That is not an intellectual impossibility.”

It is possible for God to have created the world 6,000 years ago. Nothing is impossible with God. None the less the available evidence says God created the world billions of years ago.

 

[Zaccheus]

"The Time Question

“Much less has been defined as to when the universe, life, and man appeared. The Church has infallibly determined that the universe is of finite age—that it has not existed from all eternity—but it has not infallibly defined whether the world was created only a few thousand years ago or whether it was created several billion years ago.”

• Catholic Answers

The Church has not dogmatically pronounced that the Earth was created billions of years ago. But the data collected by the scientists says that the Earth is billions of years old.

I accept the conclusion supported by the evidence.
Telling me that the Church has not dogmatically pronounced on the subject does not refute my position.

 

[CampionTheChampion]

It is possible for God to have created the world 6,000 years ago. Nothing is impossible with God. None the less the available evidence says God created the world billions of years ago.

Right on. I would go further to say we ought not lie about what creation shows us. Most “creation scientists” are incredibly intellectually dishonest. I believe even if God created the universe 6,000 years ago, He would want us to be truthful that the universe certainly looks billions of years old.

 

[Zaccheus]

What if I told you the world began about 18 days from now?

Then I suppose I’ll have to wait 18 days to see if it happens.

Lawfully? I’m not sure I am making myself clear. The job of an apologist

is to defend the faith. That’s it. If the age of the earth isn’t in a

dogma of the Catholic Faith, it shouldn’t be defended - other than

defending all Catholics’ right to have their own opinion.

And the right of Catholics to defend their positions if challenged.

 

[Zaccheus]

You mean historical theologians, right? Not current theologians? Because I am quite sure there are current Catholic theologians who admit of the possibility that God did exactly that.

A Catholic may assert a belief even if the Church has not dogmatically pronounced that belief to be true.

Also admitting a possibility is not the same as asserting that it is true.

No credible theologian would make that claim.

Perhaps not.

 

[ChunkMonk]

The verbal or written stories of other cultures and the ruins or archeological digs.

The private interpretation is obviously “religious text and tradition”

 

[goout]

You claimed that Young Earth Creationism goes against reason i.e. is an intellectual impossibility. I merely stated that is incorrect, because even though you may believe the universe began 13 billion years ago, to assert that it is impossible for God to have instead created the world 6,000+ years ago is completely unsubstantiated.

Young earth creation is an impossibility. It’s well defined science.
What is your point? To make all philosophical ruminations valid and use them to attack the Church? Not very efffective.

Some philosophical debates are pointless.
Christianity does not believe in the “god of the philosophers”.

 

[SalamKhan]

Is it just me, or are you reiterating my point but for some reason trying to use it against me for something I never actually said?

My goodness, I was simply correcting the assertion that YEC is against reason, because this false assertion gives the false impression that not only are YECists incorrect, but they are completely irrational. What would have been better to say is “Young Earth Creationism is contrary to scientific findings”.

 

[SalamKhan]

See above. Someone like yourself, who has no epistemology, has no business attempting to define what is impossible.

 

[Spyridon]

Young Earth Creation is about as reasonable as the belief that airplanes are sky demons or the Earth is a flat disk carried through space on a cosmic turtle.

 

[rossum]

My goodness, I was simply correcting the assertion that YEC is against reason

YEC is not against reason. Nor is the idea that the entire universe was created last Thursday, complete with a perfectly accurate appearance of age. Nor is the idea that we are all brains sitting in jars being fed sensations through wires by some mad alien scientist.

All are reasonable in the sense of being logically consistent with their premises.

rossum

 

[SalamKhan]

As is every possibility.

 

[Spyridon]

Salam, why do you use the Internet if you’re so sure the world is 6k years old?

Do you even realize the technology used for internet devices wouldn’t exist if the world was actually 6,000 years old?

 

[IWantGod]

My family has sent me some Young Earth Creationist materials

No disrespect, but personally i would use those materials for a fire or something more practical.

 

[Spyridon]

That’s not a great suggestion @IWantGod…

Toilet paper would be much more suitable

 

[Hope_Philomena]

I hate to break this to you, but the vast majority of those who vehemently

support evolution are rabid atheists. Richard Dawkins finds it laughable

that people of faith embrace evolution, because it is an excellent excuse

to doubt scripture, doubt miracles, and doubt the existence of God, or at

least His concern with us. How much do you actually know about evolution?

Do you not know how it has operated to marginalize faith since its

inception?

Hitler was a big fan of classical music. I am also a fan of classical music. Does this mean I am betraying my people (Jewish) by enjoying classical music?